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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**
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The HorsesMouth wrote: »I completely emphasise with your situaion, it is so tough on kids with special needs and their families. However just putting it into the bigger picture. If his school opens because there aren't as many children in the class then what do the children of those SNAs or teachers if their schools/crèches aren't open?
Also I have worked in a special school and a unit and social distancing is 100% impossible. There are toileting needs, behaviour problems etc.
Just to add though I would fully support your sons school reopening but along with every other creche/school and not under the ridiculous guise of social distancing.
Of course creche's should be open too. Children of all ages and intellect need social interaction. This is more dangerous than this virus and I stand by it.0 -
Of course creche's should be open too. Children of all ages and intellect need social interaction. This is more dangerous than this virus and I stand by it.
You may get a few headcases come in here later telling you that you are a bad parent and putting your child at risk and they will quote Tony. Just remember they are headcases who have been brainwashed by project fear. You know what is best for your child.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I can’t believe we actually still have people on this thread trying to justify keeping restrictions in place for another 3 months if not more.
We were told the reinfection rate should be less than one. It’s currently between 0.4 and 0.6. Hospitals are lying empty as we speak!!!
ICU is below 20% of the capacity we have. Countries all over Europe are getting back to normality.
There is no vaccine for the foreseeable future. What’s the plan here? Even if we get the numbers down to 0 and ban all air travel, somebody can still come down from the north and spread it.
We need to learn how to live with the virus, but our leaders are terrified. They heard some rumours that there would be queues at IKEA so they forced all homeware stores to remain closed.
I’m genuinely concerned about what criteria needs to be met to move into each phase. Even more concerned about how we’re going to pay back the 30 billion
Great post.
We’re been led blindly into oblivion by those supposedly in charge here.
The sniggering and tittering at the announcement yesterday was disgraceful.
Laughing and telling us it’s not about buying pillows homeware etc whilst completely missing the point.
They’re right on the point it’s not about pillows mugs etc but they can’t see that the actual point is about opening these stores and many more places to get businesses going again to save the country
Worryingly there’s been no change or indications of progressing things quicker even though the virus has been pretty much wiped out in the community.
How long do we keep following Dr Tony and NPHET ?
We’re in a big hole for the last two months but we’re still digging and digging deeper and deeper all driven by unsubstantiated fear.
Who’s going to take the shovels from these idiots and tell them to come out of the hole their in and actually have a look and see what’s really happening.
30 billion hole some figures say we’ve created in 9 weeks and the sad thing is with our 3 month and 5 phase rolling change plan we’re not going to have anything left to fill the hole with.
Phase 2,3&4 need to be implemented on 8th June as a matter of urgency
Enough is enough. This has to stop.0 -
MrDavid1976 wrote: »You may get a few headcases come in here later telling you that you are a bad parent and putting your child at risk and they will quote Tony. Just remember they are headcases who have been brainwashed by project fear. You know what is best for your child.
Risk of what? He likely won't experience any symptoms if he got it.0 -
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Another article of pure and utter rubbish from in the Independent, including a threat to reimpose restrictions!! Based on what? A garden centre queue?
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-garden-centres-and-hardware-stores-face-shopper-frenzy-as-taoiseach-warns-restrictions-could-be-reversed-39209867.html0 -
Thank god there's some rational adults getting airtime in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSNkUBf1g0
We need to start having these conversations here too!
Rational adult? Luke Johnson? Brexiter, project fear, public v private sector nonsense.
That’s the problem with the BBC these days, inviting non expert, publicity seeking, loud mouths on to panels in the interest of balance. You can’t get an expert who holds a contrarian view, simply because no experts hold that contrarian view. His very appearance then provides him with a level of unearned legitimacy, and the dumbasses lap up his nonsense.
Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19. The economic damage caused by continuing as normal, or having looser restrictions would be more severe and last longer. There is also historic evidence to support this position.
The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.0 -
If anybody is thinking straight they wont go near a garden centre next week .We badly need bedding compost and plants , they can wait until we can go in peace .Same goes for hardware we are waiting weeks for paint and it can now wait again0
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Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19.
weak minded....0 -
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Pitch n Putt wrote: »Great post.
We’re been led blindly into oblivion by those supposedly in charge here.
The sniggering and tittering at the announcement yesterday was disgraceful.
Laughing and telling us it’s not about buying pillows homeware etc whilst completely missing the point.
How long do we keep following Dr Tony and NPHET ?
Phase 2,3&4 need to be implemented on 8th June as a matter of urgency
Enough is enough. This has to stop.
I didn't hear the sniggering and tittering as I actually couldn't bring myself to watch the latest press announcement from Leo and Tony. I've also stopped watching the Daily Tony Show at 9pm.
But the last announcement Leo made a comment about hairdressers not opening up until 20th July..... he was sniggering and tittering then! Saying we all need a haircut but it can wait "snigger snigger". Meanwhile his hair looks blacker than ever and its certainly not March since he had it cut! He didn't for ONE minute think of the hairdressing business! And he hasn't for one minute thought about all those homeware shops and businesses.
Surely if you keep doors closed on certain businesses it increases pent up demand for whenever they do open? Its not rocket science! People at this stage know how to socially distance and mind themselves and others. Sick of people saying " ah yeah will look at what happened at the beginning, people at the beach, buying ice cream, buying chips , visiting Glendalough.....blah blah blah blah whinge moan"
THAT was then, THIS is now! We have all learnt a lot from 9 weeks of lockdown!
Those who want this lockdown are either introverted, anti-social or sheep without a brain of their own. Open your eyes. NOBODY wants to suddenly revert to life like it was before, that may never happen again, but we want to get on with living with Covid, accepting the risk and minimising it ourselves as we continue to live.0 -
Rational adult? Luke Johnson? Brexiter, project fear, public v private sector nonsense.
That’s the problem with the BBC these days, inviting non expert, publicity seeking, loud mouths on to panels in the interest of balance. You can’t get an expert who holds a contrarian view, simply because no experts hold that contrarian view. His very appearance then provides him with a level of unearned legitimacy, and the dumbasses lap up his nonsense.
Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19. The economic damage caused by continuing as normal, or having looser restrictions would be more severe and last longer. There is also historic evidence to support this position.
The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.
Tales of woe and doom? Every single day that this continues unnecessarily the damage to the economy and society in the short/medium and long term is increasing. I hope you and your family have a stable job as otherwise you will be facing a massive drop in living standards. Your kids will be looking to emigrate again but thankfully you will be used to zoom.
One does not need a masters in economics to see this. The perception by investors that Ireland will take months to get out of this has already led to money being pulled and firms failing.0 -
Horse racing is due to go ahead on 8th June. Is horse racing as essential as homeware? I wouldn’t have thought so.
Will the trainers, owners, jockies and officials have to live within 20km of the race course? Or is it deemed essential work?
I’m not allowed to see my family until 20th July, but horse racing can go ahead?
Baffling decisions by this government!0 -
Alright, so what metric do you propse be used instead then to in any way substantiate your theory that a recession would kill more people than covid? Or are we supposed to just take your word for it?Deleted User wrote: »I think you’re getting a bit confused. I never once said the overall morality rate of the entire country would increase. I said the recession would kill more people than Covid did. Covid has currently killed just over 1500 in Ireland.
Also, we don’t have any long term data to suggest Covid is causing excess morality. Less people are dying on the roads and in work accidents right now. You’d have to do a study over a couple of months to see whether those 1500 deaths had much impact at all on the morality rate.
Just as an aside, I work with figures all day. If my company loses our top 2 customers, there are actually a bunch of metrics and KPIs that would improve as a result. Of course, we’d have lost our 2 highest income streams. I take it you get the point.
I dont argue that a recession may have a worse social impact for the average person than COVID has, but youre making a very specific argument apart from that that it will kill more people than covid. Yet there is nothing to back that up, and actually a lot of evidence that the exact opposite is true
Also I dont think the current 1500 deaths will have much of an impact on annual mortality, it is the virus uncontrolled which would.0 -
The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing.
It would make me so happy if there was some way to ensure the #stayathome hivemind could be made to bear all the future tax increases, service cuts, redundancies and misery that will result from our policies.
https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/12613533271132446750 -
This is turning into a lockdowners v non-lockdowners Battle. There seems no room for the middle ground.
Lockdown was essential to protect people and the frontline. My issue is the approach to unwinding. It’s too cautious, we have to balance saving the economy now the infection rates are way down. Leo’s talk of extinguishing every ember sounds good but we’ll have to live with the threat of spikes until the entire planet has it under control or a vaccine is available.“You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.
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It would make me so happy if there was some way to ensure the #stayathome hivemind could be made to bear all the future tax increases, service cuts, redundancies and misery that will result from our policies.
https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1261353327113244675
A Fox sports journalist, woohoo.
As I said, experts. Pathetic.0 -
Originally posted by yawhat
The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.[/QUOTE]
Most of the sheeple will follow Leo and Dr Tony’s advice indefinitely all the while forgetting what’s going to be landed on them to foot the bill when the time comes.
Leo ,Simon and The good doctor will be long gone into the sunset before this bill will be repayed and maybe even before it arrives.
It’s pretty strange to be following blindly advice from these people when all over the world countries are getting back on their feet but we had to change a plan incase too many might turn up at an homestore.
They’ve done nothing but tried to control and trick people to buy into their opinions by creating a fear in people.
We need help again in Ireland with this and we need it quickly.
Same when the banking crisis happened
We were told we’ve got this in hand nothing to see here but the Troika has to come in and assist our incompetent leaders.
Your entitled to your opinion as is everyone else but the tides turning I feel and real questions need to be asked about where we’re going quickly.0 -
Alright, so what metric do you propse be used instead then to in any way substantiate your theory that a recession would kill more people than covid? Or are we supposed to just take your word for it?
I dont argue that a recession may have a worse social impact for the average person than COVID has, but youre making a very specific argument apart from that that it will kill more people than covid. Yet there is nothing to back that up, and actually a lot of evidence that the exact opposite is true
Also I dont think the current 1500 deaths will have much of an impact on annual mortality, it is the virus uncontrolled which would.
Where are the numbers now?
- how many people now are in ICU?
- how much capacity is there in ICU including the new capacity?
- what is the R rate?
- how many cases are outside of nursing homes, direct provision, health staff and meat plants (the known clusters which can be managed)?
- what is the R rate outside of these?
- how many cases have arisen in those workplaces who have been open for the last two months and introduced mitigation measures?
- what has been the experience in countries such as Denmark who have opened up more than us?
The curve is flattened, the virus (outside of known risks) is now managed, there is unprecedented capacity now in our health system, and cases are reducing by the day?
What do you want to see happening before we lift this?
And please understand the damage that will be done for every single day this shutdown continues.. it is common sense.0 -
CruelSummer wrote: »Another article of pure and utter rubbish from in the Independent, including a threat to reimpose restrictions!! Based on what? A garden centre queue?
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-garden-centres-and-hardware-stores-face-shopper-frenzy-as-taoiseach-warns-restrictions-could-be-reversed-39209867.html
Fear-mongering again. There will be front page pictures and headline News on Monday about panic buying and never ending queues in garden centres for plants and paint. Well guess what Leo? THIS is what happens when you close a business that most people need. If they were left open all the time and allowed operate like Tesco there would have been no problem. Their floor space is bigger and distance between shelves too.
The damage was done closing them and yet they expect no pent up demand on Monday? I'd say it will be hectic for 3 days then revert to normal. This also happened in the UK with Homebase and B&Q having gigantic queues, but they didn't REVERSE restrictions because of it, they allowed it to naturally dissipate.
This government and George Lee has created such an element of FEAR that they will find it hard to reverse. Fear is what will cripple the economy as it tries to recover. Fear of work, fear of public transport, fear of travelling further than their town, fear of picking up Covid from touching a railing, fear of letting schools ever open again, fear of ever having a child's birthday party again, fear, fear, fear.
There is no positivity or hope, instead there are threats of reversing restrictions if numbers go back up!
George Lee should be sacked. He positively "gets off" every night on spreading doom and gloom, wagging his finger at us, doom filled voice, big scared eyes. Who the hell does he think he is, telling us restrictions will be reversed if "reports" come back that there are too many people out and numbers rise. Numbers WILL rise, its inevitable. But we need to get back to living.0 -
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MrDavid1976 wrote: »Where are the numbers now?
- how many people now are in ICU?
- how much capacity is there in ICU including the new capacity?
- what is the R rate?
- how many cases are outside of nursing homes, direct provision, health staff and meat plants (the known clusters which can be managed)?
- what is the R rate outside of these?
- how many cases have arisen in those workplaces who have been open for the last two months and introduced mitigation measures?
- what has been the experience in countries such as Denmark who have opened up more than us?
The curve is flattened, the virus (outside of known risks) is now managed, there is unprecedented capacity now in our health system, and cases are reducing by the day?
What do you want to see happening before we lift this?
And please understand the damage that will be done for every single day this shutdown continues.. it is common sense.
I think the lockdown should have been lifted two weeks ago mate. I am just looking for the poster to back up his silly scrare mongering argument that our impending ecnomic doom will kill 'far more' people than COVID0 -
I think the lockdown should be lifted mate. I am just looking for the poster to back up his silly scrare mongering argument that our impending ecnomic doom will kill more people than COVID
Apologies I misread your post.
He is not necessarily wrong. Between the recession (no money to invest in the health system which will have long term implications) and those people who have been parked by the health system for the last 3 months the risks are pretty high. Also if there is a second wave (which historically has been a separate period), we will not be able to afford to furlough people at 350 a week.0 -
MrDavid1976 wrote: »He is not necessarily wrong. Between the recession (no money to invest in the health system which will have long term implications) and those people who have been parked by the health system for the last 3 months the risks are pretty high. Also if there is a second wave (which historically has been a separate period), we will not be able to afford to furlough people at 350 a week.
He is not necessarily right either, hence why some proof is needed for the bold statement. Or as I said before , that aspect of the argument should simply be dropped for what it is, scare mongering. There are plenty of other valid complains about how quality of life in general will suffer because of the lockdown that have actual evidence behind them.
Yes there will be a negative impact from those who had to wait longer to be seen by medical services, but how many more would have died if those vulnerable people were marched into covid ridden hospitals a few weeks ago?0 -
Pitch n Putt wrote: »
Most of the sheeple will follow Leo and Dr Tony’s advice indefinitely all the while forgetting what’s going to be landed on them to foot the bill when the time comes.
Leo ,Simon and The good doctor will be long gone into the sunset before this bill will be repayed and maybe even before it arrives.
It’s pretty strange to be following blindly advice from these people when all over the world countries are getting back on their feet but we had to change a plan incase too many might turn up at an homestore.
They’ve done nothing but tried to control and trick people to buy into their opinions by creating a fear in people.
We need help again in Ireland with this and we need it quickly.
Same when the banking crisis happened
We were told we’ve got this in hand nothing to see here but the Troika has to come in and assist our incompetent leaders.
Your entitled to your opinion as is everyone else but the tides turning I feel and real questions need to be asked about where we’re going quickly.
For me the most worrying part is that there are nobody in this country to ask questions. There is no opposition and there is no free press. I see very bleak future for the country.0 -
He is not necessarily right either, hence why some proof is needed for the bold statement. Or as I said before , that aspect of the argument should simply be dropped for what it is, scare mongering. There are plenty of other valid complains about how quality of life in general will suffer because of the lockdown that have actual evidence behind them.
Yes there will be a negative impact from those who had to wait longer to be seen by medical services, but how many more would have died if those vulnerable people were marched into covid ridden hospitals a few weeks ago?
I really hate talking about deaths of people in numbers and have avoided it on this thread particularly having known people who did die from the virus. I think we will only be able to guesstimate the real Covid 19 figure next year, and there are many different variables.
All we can do now in terms of easing restrictions is to weigh up the risk of doing something, doing it too slowly and doing nothing.
At this stage we may well be better off flying to Italy in June if you want to go out for a pizza and beer.0 -
MrDavid1976 wrote: »I really hate talking about deaths of people in numbers and have avoided it on this thread particularly having known people who did die from the virus. I think we will only be able to guesstimate the real Covid 19 figure next year, and there are many different variables.
All we can do now in terms of easing restrictions is to weigh up the risk of doing something, doing it too slowly and doing nothing.
At this stage we may well be better off flying to Italy in June if you want to go out for a pizza and beer.
if things don't improve here soon I'm going to the UK to stay with either my sister or my daughter, no restrictions on where you can go there, no bloody 5km!! And at least I would finally see some family. I also have family in Donegal and Westmeath but there is more chance of seeing people in the UK than here!!0 -
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It would make me so happy if there was some way to ensure the #stayathome hivemind could be made to bear all the future tax increases, service cuts, redundancies and misery that will result from our policies.
https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1261353327113244675
This 100%.
BBCs and CNNs are more concerned with reporting "possibly linked with covid" headlines.
I know good news doesnt sell well but this is just disgraceful and I personally have stopped going to BBCs, every day its "Deaths in Italy could be higher expert warns" or "German cases may be 10 times higher report warns", pure rubbish.
All US media cant stop reporting NYC, NY is 1 state out of 50. Perspective is lost completely.0 -
MrDavid1976 wrote: »I really hate talking about deaths of people in numbers and have avoided it on this thread particularly having known people who did die from the virus. I think we will only be able to guesstimate the real Covid 19 figure next year, and there are many different variables.
All we can do now in terms of easing restrictions is to weigh up the risk of doing something, doing it too slowly and doing nothing.
At this stage we may well be better off flying to Italy in June if you want to go out for a pizza and beer.
Haha great minds
Just looking at flights to Portugal in July
I'm 40km from the beach here, won't see it till winter0 -
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Good news from Italy & Germany.
"ITALY TO REOPEN BORDERS IN JUNE
Italy is set to open its borders to foreigners and reinstate free travel within the country on June 3.
Rome today approved a decree that will allow travelers back into the country and scrap an obligation for them to self-isolate for two weeks.
The country is heavily dependent on income generated by tourism, which accounts for about 13 percent of its GDP."
"GERMANY TO END QUARANTINE OBLIGATION FOR ARRIVALS FROM UK, EU, SCHENGEN
The German federal government and state governments have agreed to phase out a rule according to which people arriving from any given country have to quarantine themselves for two weeks.
“For travelers from the EU, the Schengen area, Great Britain and Northern Ireland, there will only be a quarantine recommendation, if they enter the country from an area with high infection rates.”
Seems like holiday season is going ahead. Thankfully. Now lets hope for change of stance from our govt0
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This discussion has been closed.
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