Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

prunudo

beggars_bush wrote: »

I'd rather our CMO tell it as it really is

Unlike in other jurisdictions

I agree, but people seemed to be gripped by covid fear and hanging on every word that the media print. Smoking kills way more people than any possible side effects from covid yet people don't loose all reasoning when they see someone walking past them on the street puffing away on a cigarette.

prunudo

thebaz wrote: »

It seams that Dr. Tony is now the real leader of the country - initally thought he like the Government did a good job, but the tunnell vision of just lockdown lockdown and not really entertaining any other posibble alternatives to living with the virus , and really confronting other medical, social and economic issues, just continued nanny statism has left me indifferent.

Thats because he's covering his arse for any forthcoming inquiry.

frillyleaf

thebaz wrote: »

It seams that Dr. Tony is now the real leader of the country - initally thought he like the Government did a good job, but the tunnell vision of just lockdown lockdown and not really entertaining any other posibble alternatives to living with the virus , and really confronting other medical, social and economic issues, just continued nanny statism has left me indifferent.

After reading the restriction guidelines I feel that the country is effectively still in lockdown. I thought for some reason that more would be lifted on the 18th. The 5km is still very restrictive. When are we actually coming out of this lockdown? It seems to be really dragging out now

LessOutragePlz

beggars_bush wrote: »

I'd rather our CMO tell it as it really is

Unlike in other jurisdictions

I'd rather he and our unelected government engaged in less fear mongering and negativity. Yes people are still dying every day and there a still over a 100 hundred cases being reported on a daily basis but we are doing extremely well compared to when the lockdown was first imposed. They haven't even hinted at the possibility that the lockdown could be ended sooner than planned.

If we look around at our neighbouring European countries they are going to be ending their lockdowns far sooner than us. Especially countries that were severely effected such as Spain and Italy. That begs the question as to why our lockdown is going to take so long to be lifted.

We're being told that it's based on the best scientific advice and data that is available. Forgive me for questioning the information that the government and medical professionals are throwing at us and not just believing everything that they are telling us but, I'd like to see that data I'd like to see the solid evidence as to why we can't end the lockdown until August.

Is a bit of transparency too much to ask for?

Ginger n Lemon

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The only weak minded ones in this country are the ones consumed by fear and hyperbole.

Italians will be allowed to move freely around thier country two whole months before we will. Can you not see how outrageously out of touch our approach is?

Jesus. That is eye opening. Its actually 2 months and 1 week before we will be able to go further than 20km. Assuming that isnt a typo ofcourse.

crossman47

prunudo wrote: »

Thats because he's covering his arse for any forthcoming inquiry.

And the government are hiding behind him and shirking their responsibility. If all goes well, they did a great job; if not, the CMO is the fall guy. No wonder hes being careful.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I can’t believe we actually still have people on this thread trying to justify keeping restrictions in place for another 3 months if not more.

We were told the reinfection rate should be less than one. It’s currently between 0.4 and 0.6. Hospitals are lying empty as we speak!!!

ICU is below 20% of the capacity we have. Countries all over Europe are getting back to normality.

There is no vaccine for the foreseeable future. What’s the plan here? Even if we get the numbers down to 0 and ban all air travel, somebody can still come down from the north and spread it.

We need to learn how to live with the virus, but our leaders are terrified. They heard some rumours that there would be queues at IKEA so they forced all homeware stores to remain closed.

I’m genuinely concerned about what criteria needs to be met to move into each phase. Even more concerned about how we’re going to pay back the 30 billion

My understanding is we need testing and tracing to be up to the standard of other countries before we can "live with the virus". That's how outbreaks can be stopped in their tracks in the future. That's how south korea turned it around so quickly.

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/adriancummins/status/1261215485024231424?s=19

Mentioned it here before that there should be some sort of voucher scheme whereby you get a voucher be it €20 or whatever to spend in your own area when places reopen to try and kickstart local businesses again.

Vienna have given vouchers to each person to use in bars and restaurants that started reopening yesterday. Would be good to see such an initiative here

prunudo

crossman47 wrote: »

And the government are hiding behind him and shirking their responsibility. If all goes well, they did a great job; if not, the CMO is the fall guy. No wonder hes being careful.

They're not even a proper government, they're a caretaker government who will be out of a job in a month or two. I thought, like others, that at the start of this the 3 of them were doing a good job (Varadkar,Harris and Hoolahan), but as it has gone on the lack of real leadership and owning the situation has been telling.

ek motor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adriancummins/status/1261215485024231424?s=19

Mentioned it here before that there should be some sort of voucher scheme whereby you get a voucher be it €20 or whatever to spend in your own area when places reopen to try and kickstart local businesses again.

Vienna have given vouchers to each person to use in bars and restaurants that started reopening yesterday. Would be good to see such an initiative here

Tremendous idea

stephenjmcd

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Jesus. That is eye opening. Its actually 2 months and 1 week before we will be able to go further than 20km. Assuming that isnt a typo ofcourse.

Yup and likewise in Austria, restaurants and bars reopened yesterday, public amenities such as swimming pools and leisure centres will reopen end of this month.

It'll be August here before we can look at any of that.

MrDavid1976

crossman47 wrote: »

And the government are hiding behind him and shirking their responsibility. If all goes well, they did a great job; if not, the CMO is the fall guy. No wonder hes being careful.

Then we need an election. We don’t have a Government. And if someone does get their act together there will be cases in the courts that will be capable of challenging this unprecedented and at this stage unnecessary shut down of enterprise.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adriancummins/status/1261215485024231424?s=19

Mentioned it here before that there should be some sort of voucher scheme whereby you get a voucher be it €20 or whatever to spend in your own area when places reopen to try and kickstart local businesses again.

Vienna have given vouchers to each person to use in bars and restaurants that started reopening yesterday. Would be good to see such an initiative here

Fantastic to see. 4 lads breaking social distancing rules, not wearing masks, smiling. That is how you exit a pandemic. Not wearing a mask with terrified eyes staying 2 metres away from everyone.

stephenjmcd

ek motor wrote: »

Tremendous idea

Yeah its something quite simple but would really give businesses an instant cash flow

crossman47

prunudo wrote: »

They're not even a proper government, they're a caretaker government who will be out of a job in a month or two. I thought, like others, that at the start of this the 3 of them were doing a good job (Varadkar,Harris and Hoolahan), but as it has gone on the lack of real leadership and owning the situation has been telling.

Holohan is doing his job, giving advice. Its up to ministers to accept or reject it given the wider considerations.

thebaz

frillyleaf wrote: »

After reading the restriction guidelines I feel that the country is effectively still in lockdown. I thought for some reason that more would be lifted on the 18th. The 5km is still very restrictive. When are we actually coming out of this lockdown? It seems to be really dragging out now

What I find worrying is no one in the opposition or the media is really challenging the current strategy - it has worked well until - now - People in general have behaved, better than I expected , we have flattened the curve , the hospitals are not over-run - Meanwhile we are haemoraging money , 115 million a month on unused private hospitals, unemployemt is through the roof (including me - many people , me included, are at breaking point - its causing divisions in society with the Covidiots/curtain twitchers / snitching on neighbours for laws that really are past ther effective sell by date. The fear of handing over so much power to authorities is they ofen dont want to relinquesh them back when the time is right.

shnaek

frillyleaf wrote: »

After reading the restriction guidelines I feel that the country is effectively still in lockdown. I thought for some reason that more would be lifted on the 18th. The 5km is still very restrictive. When are we actually coming out of this lockdown? It seems to be really dragging out now

Yeah, I thought it was going to 20km on Monday. In reality all that's happening is hardware stores are opening, so we are very much still in lock-down. The rich will be able to head over to Europe. I was quite depressed yesterday I'll admit when I realised how little is happening on Monday.

MrDavid1976

crossman47 wrote: »

Holohan is doing his job, giving advice. Its up to ministers to accept or reject it given the wider considerations.

Doing your job as a public servant is not publicly and flippantly dismissing a view expressed by the Taoiseach which by the way is something other jurisdictions were already doing.

Doing your job is not giving directions to another State body when you do not have the legislative base and bypassing all conventions.

Elmer Blooker

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0516/1138761-coronavirus-children-warning/

Nobody puts Tony in a corner
He ain’t going away you know

So thats settled then!

A link with Covid-19 has not been established, but appears plausible, according to the ECDC.

The World Health Organization confirmed it is studying a possible link between Covid-19 and a rare inflammatory illness among children.

Only 230 suspected cases have been reported in Europe and two children have died.

Authorities in Ireland say there have been seven cases which could be associated with the syndrome.

Ginger n Lemon

This here is precisely why we need to open up much quicker. Its so foolish to think that on 10th of August you ll have all the bars reopening with all their staff or barbers re opening fully on 21st of July.

"The Construction Industry Federation has said physical distancing will mean fewer workers being allowed on-site.

Director Tom Parlon said it will not be business as usual.

"I think we're quite prepared but at the same time on Monday morning it will be an easing back", he said.

"I'd say if we have 20-25% of people back on sites that's about maximum."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/less-than-25-of-construction-workers-expected-to-return-on-monday-999917.html

Re opening is clearly an extremely slow process. To think that some bar staff/restaurant staff wont be employed well into September/October literally means 6 month lockdown for some employees.

FintanMcluskey

daydorunrun wrote: »

This is turning into a lockdowners v non-lockdowners Battle. There seems no room for the middle ground.
Lockdown was essential to protect people and the frontline. My issue is the approach to unwinding. It’s too cautious, we have to balance saving the economy now the infection rates are way down. Leo’s talk of extinguishing every ember sounds good but we’ll have to live with the threat of spikes until the entire planet has it under control or a vaccine is available.

Its not lockdown v non lockdowners.

There is no non lockdowners on this thread. We all have adhered to 2 months of it.

What the argument here is trying to prove to people that

-staying within 5km of home wont save 1 life
-Kids off school until September wont save 1 life
-Forbidding the purchase of curtains and those ridiculous "love, laugh laugh" pictures in a home suppliers wont save 1 life
-Forbidding people from driving to holiday homes in west Cork wont save 1 life
-Getting a haircut wont cost one life

People have lost an ability to apply critical thinking since Covid filled its 1st tabloid and new bulletin in Ireland.
From reading here, if one drives 6km from home next Monday and disobeys the orders, 3 people will be dead from Covid it seems.
Those restriction is Ireland are now based solely upon a "lets wait and see attitude" all the while Ireland is now the most restrictive nation in Europe and will be all Summer.
My advice to thise who can is to head for Italy, they are now in talks to revive the tourist season THiS Summer.

Its an argument of those who require constant direction in life v those who can apply critical thinking for themselves.

Its the people who required the signs of 2m on shop floors v those who could keep distance themselves.

MrDavid1976

The Irish Times today (Pat Leahy) is now highlighting some of the issues. Below. Hopefully this will start focusing political minds.



I suspect the expectation that Covid-19 could be Fine Gael’s electoral salvation would suffer the same fate. As was averred ad magnam nauseam around here at the time, elections are about the future, not the past.

The second reason is that – as we will start realising next week – reopening Ireland is going to be a lot trickier than closing her down.

The Government has already made an almighty bags of the Leaving Cert, and the foostering about reopening the schools – still 3½ months away, for God’s sake – does not bode well for the future.

Sticking to the timetable for the reopening of social and commercial life requires a regime of testing and tracing that the HSE and associated bodies have not managed to put in place yet, and which – for all the brave and splendid work thus far – the organisation’s historic track record would not engender confidence it will achieve.

Thirdly, things will be economically a lot worse next September. Deficit spending at a time like this is both economically wise and socially necessary.

But unlimited and open-ended deficit spending is not feasible because your lenders won’t put up with it. And if you have to borrow money you have to pay some attention to the wishes of your lenders as they are likely to be the conditions of the loan.

mr zulu

Are we the only country in Europe that has the redicous 5km rule?

castletownman

ek motor wrote: »

Tremendous idea

Here, each healthcare worker will probably be given a free token for the coffee machine.

beggars_bush

mr zulu wrote: »

Are we the only country in Europe that has the redicous 5km rule?

France had even stricter rules
As did Italy
2km was generous in comparison

Ginger n Lemon

mr zulu wrote: »

Are we the only country in Europe that has the redicous 5km rule?

We are, unfortunately. The same applies for 20km allowance kicking in end of June or mid July.

Perhaps Tony & Co know something about pandemics that no other country knows. Or every other country knows something that we dont.

FishOnABike

riclad wrote: »

The research seems to suggest young people under 12
don,t spread the virus. I.d prefer the government is slow and cautious than move too fast and allow the virus to spread. The government told most shops to close. How can 1000,s of workers buy food and pay rent with zero income? The government had to act fast 350euro will cover most people, s expenses. When all the shops are open the payment will stop. It's a temporary measure.
This is not like the crash in 2008 business, s are closed in
Order to stop the virus spreading and the hospitals
Being overloaded with potential patients

This fallacy seems to be repeated over and over again without any reference to its source ir evidence. What evidence is there that under 12s don't spread the virus?

The largest population study I've seen ( https://zoonosen.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/analysis-of-SARS-CoV-2-viral-load-by-patient-age.pdf ) which compares viral load, as a proxy for infectivity, in 3712 SARS-CoV-2 positive patients from 59,381 screened found no difference in viral load between age groups and cautions - "The viral loads observed in the present study, combined with earlier findings of similar attack
rate between children and adults (2), suggest that transmission potential in schools and
kindergartens should be evaluated using the same assumptions of infectivity as for adults."

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

We are, unfortunately. The same applies for 20km allowance kicking in end of June or mid July.

Perhaps Tony & Co know something about pandemics that no other country knows. Or every other country knows something that we dont.

Ah FFS I innocently thought that was lifted as of Monday.

Thats ridiculous to suggest 5km until next July. What the actual f##k difference does 5km make?

Ginger n Lemon

FishOnABike wrote: »

This fallacy seems to be repeated over and over again without any reference to its source ir evidence. What evidence is there that under 12s don't spread the virus?

The largest population study I've seen ( https://zoonosen.chari...d-by-patient-age.pdf ) which compares viral load, as a proxy for infectivity, in 3712 SARS-CoV-2 positive patients from 59,381 screened found no difference in viral load between age groups and cautions - "The viral loads observed in the present study, combined with earlier findings of similar attack
rate between children and adults (2), suggest that transmission potential in schools and
kindergartens should be evaluated using the same assumptions of infectivity as for adults."

There you go below

"Swiss authorities say it is now safe for children under the age of 10 to hug their grandparents, in a revision to official advice on coronavirus.

The health ministry's infectious diseases chief Daniel Koch said scientists had concluded that young children did not transmit the virus.

However, he said such meetings should be brief and not involve babysitting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52470838

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There you go below

"Swiss authorities say it is now safe for children under the age of 10 to hug their grandparents, in a revision to official advice on coronavirus.

The health ministry's infectious diseases chief Daniel Koch said scientists had concluded that young children did not transmit the virus.

However, he said such meetings should be brief and not involve babysitting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52470838

Wonder why they suggest a brief visit if there is no risk of transmission between the elderly and child? Obviously because they are apprehensive and not certain they are correct