Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FintanMcluskey

Colibri wrote: »

Why Tony Holohan wasn't f*cked out of his position after the CervicalCheck scandal is beyond me.

Many people still say he's doing a great job. Some artists online are even painting superhero versions of him.

Bonkers.
But listen to that lord Sumption.
He said if a nation is paralysed with fear they will beg for action by government, so essentially certain people who could be described as "vunerable" actually think this virus is still lethal to all ages

Stheno

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Apologies I could be wrong, I thought I saw July 20th somewhere

20km is June 8, then you can travel outside your region on the 20th July which is 11 weeks away

Stheno

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Apologies if already discussed (thread moves fast!) - but anyone optimistic about new Dail Covid committee?

I’m thinking maybe NPHET has its hold too firmly now on the government but new committee will apparently have some uncomfortable questions for Tony and crew next week.

Some possiblity maybe for speeding up of phases?

It will be interesting to see how it operates

stephenjmcd

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

I see Italy, France and Germany to name a few will allow people to enter from June 8th and people won't need to do the 2 week isolation.

Meanwhile here in Ireland we won't even be allowed to travel more than 20km until July 20km

I can see half of Ireland going over to Italy etc in June

Just after looking this up and its utterly unbelievable how essentially we can travel across Europe later this summer but yet our own restrictions will be so slow to lift that we technically can't travel across Ireland. If in June other countries do open up again as it looks like they will then the idea that Ireland remains shut down and everyone enters quarantine on arrival will probably be quickly abandoned by a new government

FintanMcluskey

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Apologies if already discussed (thread moves fast!) - but anyone optimistic about new Dail Covid committee?

I’m thinking maybe NPHET has its hold too firmly now on the government but new committee will apparently have some uncomfortable questions for Tony and crew next week.

Some possiblity maybe for speeding up of phases?

Uncomfortable questions for Tony?

Tony doesnt take kindly to questions.

Check out Vicky Phelan to see his history with accountability

Colibri

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Uncomfortable questions for Tony?

Tony doesnt take kindly to questions.

Check out Vicky Phelan to see his history with accountability

FintanMcluskey

Colibri wrote: »

Very strong response.

What brave gallant leader he is

Ginger n Lemon

Lets hope EU officials put some pressure on Tony & Co.

"Officials are scrambling to rescue Europe’s tourism industry, which accounts for 10% of EU economic output – more in Italy, Spain, Croatia and Greece.

Austria’s chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, announced last week that he intended to open the borders to visitors from safe countries, such as Germany and the Czech Republic, as part of efforts to protect the Alpine state’s tourism industry."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/eu-reopen-borders-tourists-covid-19-recovery-plan

"The country’s tourism minister, Harry Theoharis, confirmed on Tuesday that if progress was not made on Wednesday Athens would pursue measures that would allow air travel by striking “bilateral agreements” with other countries. Germany, Austria, Israel and Cyprus have already begun discussing ‘travel corridors’ with Greece, along with Bulgaria and other Balkan states to its north."

oh uh I dont see Ireland in that list :S Do we have a minister for tourism or transport discussing any travel agreements with any other nations other than our noisy neighbour? Whats minister for tourism up to nowadays Shane Ross?

FishOnABike

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There you go below

"Swiss authorities say it is now safe for children under the age of 10 to hug their grandparents, in a revision to official advice on coronavirus.

The health ministry's infectious diseases chief Daniel Koch said scientists had concluded that young children did not transmit the virus.

However, he said such meetings should be brief and not involve babysitting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52470838

That news report (not scientific study), says more, and is not as clear cut as the short selective quote above might suggest.

A slightly longer quote indicates a different story -

The new advice applies to young children who show no signs of illness while older children must still avoid contact with grandparents.

Dr Koch advised only "brief contact with grandchildren", not family get-togethers, babysitting, or spending time with children outside the home.

However, not all experts concur with the Swiss government's findings.

Sounding a note of caution, Germany's chief virologist Christian Drosten told Austrian broadcaster ORF that there was insufficient data to say conclusively that young children could not transmit the virus.

He said the question of whether children contracted the virus, and if so how they might pass it on, was answered differently in different studies.

So, in Switzerland the government reccomendation is that, young children, with no symptoms, may meet their grandparents briefly,
not family get-togethers, babysitting, or spending time with children outside the home, because, on balance, it is important to their (grandparents) mental health.

The study I referenced found no difference in viral load between age groups.

Ficheall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lets hope EU officials put some pressure on Tony & Co.

"Officials are scrambling to rescue Europe’s tourism industry, which accounts for 10% of EU economic output – more in Italy, Spain, Croatia and Greece.

Austria’s chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, announced last week that he intended to open the borders to visitors from safe countries, such as Germany and the Czech Republic, as part of efforts to protect the Alpine state’s tourism industry."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/eu-reopen-borders-tourists-covid-19-recovery-plan

"The country’s tourism minister, Harry Theoharis, confirmed on Tuesday that if progress was not made on Wednesday Athens would pursue measures that would allow air travel by striking “bilateral agreements” with other countries. Germany, Austria, Israel and Cyprus have already begun discussing ‘travel corridors’ with Greece, along with Bulgaria and other Balkan states to its north."

oh uh I dont see Ireland in that list :S Do we have a minister for tourism or transport discussing any travel agreements with any other nations other than our noisy neighbour? Whats minister for tourism up to nowadays Shane Ross?

Are our borders not open to visitors from every country?

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lets hope EU officials put some pressure on Tony & Co.

"Officials are scrambling to rescue Europe’s tourism industry, which accounts for 10% of EU economic output – more in Italy, Spain, Croatia and Greece.

Austria’s chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, announced last week that he intended to open the borders to visitors from safe countries, such as Germany and the Czech Republic, as part of efforts to protect the Alpine state’s tourism industry."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/eu-reopen-borders-tourists-covid-19-recovery-plan

"The country’s tourism minister, Harry Theoharis, confirmed on Tuesday that if progress was not made on Wednesday Athens would pursue measures that would allow air travel by striking “bilateral agreements” with other countries. Germany, Austria, Israel and Cyprus have already begun discussing ‘travel corridors’ with Greece, along with Bulgaria and other Balkan states to its north."

oh uh I dont see Ireland in that list :S Do we have a minister for tourism or transport discussing any travel agreements with any other nations other than our noisy neighbour? Whats minister for tourism up to nowadays Shane Ross?

Are you not forgetting we are about a month behind these countries and are following the same approach as these countries.

Ginger n Lemon

Ficheall wrote: »

Are our borders not open to visitors from every country?

Do you really think anyone will fly here if Gardai are going to force them to 14 day quarantine?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gardai-to-enforce-two-week-quarantine-for-passengers-39198848.html

If I could find this article in 4 seconds, imagine how quickly any sensible tourist will find it.

So, to answer simply, our opened to every country, except for with serious strings attached.

its a bit like having a ferrari in the garage but no key or petrol to drive it.

Ginger n Lemon

average_runner wrote: »

Are you not forgetting we are about a month behind these countries and are following the same approach as these countries.

If we are a month behind, why are we taking 3 months longer to reopen?

Rodin

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Do you really think anyone will fly here if Gardai are going to force them to 14 day quarantine?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gardai-to-enforce-two-week-quarantine-for-passengers-39198848.html

If I could find this article in 4 seconds, imagine how quickly any sensible tourist will find it.

So, to answer simply, our opened to every country, except for with serious strings attached.

its a bit like having a ferrari in the garage but no key or petrol to drive it.

If only they'd insisted on this 2-3 months ago we'd be well out the other side by now

MrDavid1976

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Do you really think anyone will fly here if Gardai are going to force them to 14 day quarantine?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gardai-to-enforce-two-week-quarantine-for-passengers-39198848.html

If I could find this article in 4 seconds, imagine how quickly any sensible tourist will find it.

So, to answer simply, our opened to every country, except for with serious strings attached.

its a bit like having a ferrari in the garage but no key or petrol to drive it.

That position. (which is not yet even in legislation) will be illegal and the Govt will be facing daily fines from the EU.

Colibri

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain/spain-orders-two-week-quarantine-for-incoming-travellers-from-may-15-idUSKBN22O0W0

Headline:

Spain orders two-week quarantine for incoming travellers from Friday


Reality:

An official order published on Tuesday said the quarantine would apply to all travellers arriving between May 15-May 24, when the country’s state of emergency is due to end.

People are seeing this headline and running with it, sharing it like wildfire. Nobody is reading the article.

MrDavid1976

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

If we are a month behind, why are we taking 3 months longer to reopen?

Plus our numbers are already better especially when it comes to community transmissions. Makes no sense on many levels.

Ginger n Lemon

Colibri wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain/spain-orders-two-week-quarantine-for-incoming-travellers-from-may-15-idUSKBN22O0W0

Headline:

Spain orders two-week quarantine for incoming travellers from Friday


Reality:




People are seeing this headline and running with it, sharing it like wildfire. Nobody is reading the article.

As Epictetus said: only the educated are free.

Wow, we are adding a philosophical dimension to the conversation.

Unfortunately 4/5 articles coming our are currently like that.

Ginger n Lemon

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

That position. (which is not yet even in legislation) will be illegal and the Govt will be facing daily fines from the EU.

Its a nonsense position also because it assumes every arrival has Covid. 100%.

When in reality, from all the good stuff testing done worldwide, less than 4% of population in every country have been tested positive for covid.

4% reality vs Gardai expectations at Dublin airport of 100%. Quite a leap

JPCN1

NDWC wrote: »

It's soul destroying seeing pretty much every other country in Europe opening back up including Italy (!) yet for 95% of us nothing will change for nearly another month. And even then we'll still have the nonsensical 20km rule in place. Depressing

Thankfully as we watch other countries open up the government will have to bring things forward. Personally I think Leo,Tony and Simon lack any credibility and this is now pure politics. We'll look back this time next year and thin what the f*** were at.

I'd ignore the 20k thing and get on with living your life.

Ginger n Lemon

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Plus our numbers are already better especially when it comes to community transmissions. Makes no sense on many levels.

When our second biggest city has 0 covid patients, justifying another 11 weeks of lockdown is very difficult indeed.

Wibbs

average_runner wrote: »

Are you not forgetting we are about a month behind these countries and are following the same approach as these countries.

No, we are or rather should be a month ahead, at least, of those countries mentioned and we haven't been following their approaches. That's the scandal surrounding the amateur hour response of our authorities. We have done remarkably badly as far as beating this virus goes given our natural advantages out of the box.

What has saved us from an Italian, or even UK outcome has been a months lead time, our much lower population densities with most people living in single family dwellings rather than apartments. We got the schools and businesses shutdown right, but contact tracing, testing, quarantine, public mask wearing, border and port health checks have either been haphazard, sometimes to the point of incompetence or missing entirely.

Compare our number of deaths, either as a standalone or per million of population to those nations who have implemented and followed those above protocols and see the differences, and they're stark. Our wishy washy "response" has cost is in both more dead and more money wasted. And watch and see further bumbling as we go to the next stages. That'll be a given. Unless pigs start massing at airports ready to take off.

FintanMcluskey

Colibri wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain/spain-orders-two-week-quarantine-for-incoming-travellers-from-may-15-idUSKBN22O0W0

Headline:

Spain orders two-week quarantine for incoming travellers from Friday


Reality:




People are seeing this headline and running with it, sharing it like wildfire. Nobody is reading the article.

Ireland citizens are the most restricted in Europe and will be all Summer.

And some people are happy to accept this?

Baffling

Jim Bob Scratcher

average_runner

Wibbs wrote: »

No, we are or rather should be a month ahead, at least, of those countries mentioned and we haven't been following their approaches. That's the scandal surrounding the amateur hour response of our authorities. We have done remarkably badly as far as beating this virus goes given our natural advantages out of the box.

What has saved us from an Italian, or even UK outcome has been a months lead time, our much lower population densities with most people living in single family dwellings rather than apartments. We got the schools and businesses shutdown right, but contact tracing, testing, quarantine, public mask wearing, border and port health checks have either been haphazard, sometimes to the point of incompetence or missing entirely.

Compare our number of deaths, either as a standalone or per million of population to those nations who have implemented and followed those above protocols and see the differences, and they're stark. Our wishy washy "response" has cost is in both more dead and more money wasted. And watch and see further bumbling as we go to the next stages. That'll be a given. Unless pigs start massing at airports ready to take off.

We got the quarantine right. The problem with ireland is the people are too stupid or just selfish and only care about me.

If we obeyed the first week of the lockdown, the more strict version wouldn't of happened. But the younger generation cant keep out of pubs or do the right thing.

Stormyteacup

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Uncomfortable questions for Tony?

Tony doesnt take kindly to questions.

Check out Vicky Phelan to see his history with accountability

Yes but hopefully with a bigger spotlight on him this time he won’t be able to get away with his sociopathic and patronising dismissals.

KrustyUCC

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

I thought the 20km was June 8th. Has it been pushed back?

No still June all going well but anymore than 20km is 20th of July

In theory we will have 6 weeks of 20km

Stormyteacup

average_runner wrote: »

Are you not forgetting we are about a month behind these countries and are following the same approach as these countries.

I’m not familiar enough with the timelines for all EU countries but have family in Austria.

The first death from covid was reported one day after the first death here.

Their shutdown dates were very close to ours.

Their figures seem better but they were not including care home deaths.

They are months ahead of us for easing of restrictions.

average_runner

Stormyteacup wrote: »

I’m not familiar enough with the timelines for all EU countries but have family in Austria.

The first death from covid was reported one day after the first death here.

Their shutdown dates were very close to ours.

Their figures seem better but they were not including care home deaths.

They are months ahead of us for easing of restrictions.

Yeah but the Austrians are responsible adults, we aren't

mr zulu

Cillian du gascun saying on rte radio that we could go back to stage one or even go back beyond that if they are not happy by June 8th, it's pretty clear who's running the country now.