Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

No I said ridiculing people bringing up Sweden and then in the same breath bringing up Brazil as comparison to Ireland is ridiculous. We've 1000 things more in common with Sweden than with Brazil.

Ah I see. So the comparison holds true when it supports your line of thinking. I get ya. Thanks

growleaves

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There should be a "Brazil avoiding lockdown" thread

We'll be able to compare locked down areas of Brazil with non-locked down areas of Brazil, in time. Just as we can compare North Dakota (lockdown) to South Dakota (no lockdown).

Pitch n Putt

RGS wrote: »

How can the jockeys social distance during a race. All races have horses close to each other and bumping into each other. Theres no social distance in existence.
Are the jockeys socially isolating from the families, I doubt it.
Leo stated it's because they contribute 500 m to the economy.
Looks like he ignore the majority of other business cases put forward.

I don’t know of any flat race that goes on for 15 mins which is the magic number time wise regarding contact with people

Also 1 meters distancing should be more than enough for the duration of a race which in most cases would be well under 5 minutes

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Ah I see. So the comparison holds true when it supports your line of thinking. I get ya. Thanks

Okay then let's draw example to Ireland with Brazil, who have two of the largest cities in the world with Sao Paulo and Rio de janiero, with a large portion of the population living in slums cramped together and an overall population of nearly 200 million people. What you're doing is drawing comparison between a gold fish and a marlin.

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Okay then let's draw example to Ireland with Brazil, who have two of the largest cities in the world with Sao Paulo and Rio de janiero, with a large portion of the population living in slums cramped together and an overall population of nearly 200 million people. What you're doing is drawing comparison between a gold fish and a marlin.

There is no comparison. As there isn't to ****ing Sweden.

bb1234567

growleaves wrote: »

We'll be able to compare locked down areas of Brazil with non-locked down areas of Brazil, in time. Just as we can compare North Dakota (lockdown) to South Dakota (no lockdown).

That is interesting, never knew about one dakota having lockdown and the other didnt. South Dakota has twice as many cases, and likely more as it has only tested half as many people as north dakota

Though their deaths are the exact same. That will be such an interesting case study, they have almost the exact same population and population density and are both extremely rural.

SusieBlue

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Sorry for the leap away but just picked this up here couple of pages back...

Are creches expected to operate with distancing when they re-open? As in keeping the children apart?

Is it just me who thinks that would be insane? Thats like torture. You might as well put them into cages.

It hasn’t been confirmed yet, but whether it’ll be a necessary measure for reopening or not is still under discussion.
How you will enforce something like that in a room of 2yr old remains to be seen, they have no concept of personal space. It’s highly impractical and a very unfair burden to put on the childcare profession, not to mention how detrimental it is to the kids development.

I saw an article earlier on the measures schools & nurseries in the UK are taking to reopen earlier and it made for some sad reading.

It sounds absolutely grim, there is to be less than 10 kids to a classroom and they all have to sit 2m apart. They won’t be able to have any contact with each other or their teacher.
No PE, no games and no sports. No playing with toys or other educational equipment.
They’re putting stickers on the ground 2m apart to ensure the kids are socially distanced at break time, and different year groups won’t be allowed mix with each other during lunch either.
The teachers won’t even be allowed to correct the homework. They’ll be encouraged to bring in their own PPE as it won’t be supplied by their department of education.
It sounds like a nightmare.

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

There is no comparison. As there isn't to ****ing Sweden.

Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

growleaves

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

Some genetic overlap as well. Vikings both invaded Ireland and brought captured Irish girls back to Scandi with them.

growleaves

People were scared and were taking no chances. Now ye're all kitted out with hindsight

Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.

FintanMcluskey

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

Nah Ireland has more in common with south American slums than another European country

uli84

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0516/1138803-government-establishes-return-to-sport-expert-group/

A return to Sport Expert Group is being set up . All very fine but where is the Return to Work Group or Return to School Expert Group
Priorities please Mr Varadkar

I bet according to him you don’t need school or work or curtains and pillows but you need horse racing and sports

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well there is, similar age demographic, similar level of income per capita, similar form of government, national health service, both EU member states and similar urban/rural population but other than that, they've not much in common.

I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially against the ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experts all rolled into one.

Juwwi

Kermit.deg .frog wrote: »

There should be a "Brazil avoiding lockdown" thread

Or a thread naming and shaming mask wearers

Just read back 2 different posters claiming that loons are driving around with masks on in cars

and wearing a mask is a bad example to kids .:rolleyes:

Jesus will people cop on . if people want to wear a mask during a global virus pandemic will you just mind your own business .

nobody knows what other peoples situation is at home or health wise ffs

FintanMcluskey

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially against the ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experis all rollled into one.

Forget ICU per million population.

Apply ICU per million over 65

ismat

growleaves wrote: »

Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.

1% would be about 50,000 people. Only 1,500 or so have died to date.

Arghus

growleaves wrote: »

Mate I was on here writing posts opposing lockdown as early as March 16th.

So many of my posts were being ignored I thought there was a problem with my computer and people couldn't see them.

I was kitted out with foresight, predicting that the Imperial model would prove wrong and telling people the final death rate would be below 1%.

Well, at least you've been consistent in your naivete in that case. Which is something.

But it doesn't mean that a lockdown wasn't necessary.

We can agree to disagree, before we start all this. It's a waste of time.

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

I can't even fathom this stuff. I can't keep arguing against stuff that makes no sense. Even though Sweden never entered an official lockdown they have very much treated in as such for long periods which is something we never could have achieved given the way in which we have seen people act. They have twice our ICU capcity. The is a somewhat good article here from RTE. They have a population with high social compliance. I think they have currently about 2 to 3 times as many deaths as us with roughly the same infected? What a win.

Forgetting all of that the point is we are different and these comparison are pointless. We need to trust our own guidance and experts. Especially ones in this thread who now believe themselves to be political, data, disease and economic experis all rollled into one.

Well sorry but going by past experience I wouldn't put too much faith in the Irish civil service or the government for that matter, at the best of times they're a comedy of errors nevermind in the face of a global crisis. I'd trust their Belgian, german, Dutch or Austrian counterparts before I'd hang my hopes on them getting it right.

The country has been run incompetently for decades and we've had chance after chance to change it and we haven't. We're going to pay the price for it now like we did in 2009 and it'll be costly indeed. Anyone who thinks its a simple case of staying at home until August and it'll all be grand is lying to themselves.

ismat

Juwwi wrote: »

Or a thread naming and shaming mask wearers

Just read back 2 different posters claiming that loons are driving around with masks on in cars

and wearing a mask is a bad example to kids .:rolleyes:

Jesus will people cop on . if people want to wear a mask during a global virus pandemic will you just mind your own business .

nobody knows what other peoples situation is at home or health wise ffs

I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

Yeah, seeing people being targeted for wearing masks is a worry alright and strips credibility from the aggressors' other opinions IMO.

But sure there are 'badly misguideds' on both sides - the HSE vs Hairdressers thing in here a few nights ago was the bizarrest shít I've seen in all 3 of these threads so far. Pressure is definitely starting to grow on people.

I started to feel the struggle myself this week with the lockdown. My industry was the first out and will be among the last to return, every day I wake to cancellations stretching into September/October at this stage, and the light at the end of the tunnel gets that bit further out of reach. I understand what must be done, but it's quite a test and I don't know if any/many of us are dealing with this perfectly.

NegativeCreep

ismat wrote: »

I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

They put it on at home after they’ve just washed their hands, leave it on in the car, do their shopping, drive home with the mask on and then take it off properly when they get home. What’s so difficult to get about that?

Masks are working in other parts of the world. I don’t know why there’s such a stigma about them here.

growleaves

ismat wrote: »

1% would be about 50,000 people. Only 1,500 or so have died to date.

Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.

growleaves

Arghus wrote: »

Well, at least you've been consistent in your naivete in that case. Which is something.

But it doesn't mean that a lockdown wasn't necessary.

We can agree to disagree, before we start all this. It's a waste of time.

I won't get into bickering with you. I agree to disagree.

I've made my points on this thread, such as comparisons between S. Dakota and N. Dakota.

I'm sure many studies and books analysing covid and lockdown will be written in the years to come.

ismat

growleaves wrote: »

Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.

There are some extreme predictions alright. I’d say it will be closer to .1% then 1% based on what has happened so far

ismat

growleaves wrote: »

Posters were making predictions of overall death rates of 1%, 1.7%, 3%, 4%, 6%, 7% and even 21% on the main threads, starting in mid-March.

Even after most of Europe went into lockdown.

There are some extreme predictions alright. I’d say it will be closer to .1% then 1% based on what has happened so far

Juwwi

ismat wrote: »

I’ve seen lots of people driving on their own and wearing masks. Obviously they have no concept of what the mask actually does as it cannot be helpful in any way while in their own car unaccompanied

The proper way to wear a mask tho is put it on with clean hands and don't touch it again until your hands are clean again to take it off.

By putting it on before you leave the house presumingly its to go on a short drive to the supermarket it makes 100% sense as its the safe.

To be calling people loons is ridiculous

ismat

NegativeCreep wrote: »

They put it on at home after they’ve just washed their hands, leave it on in the car, do their shopping, drive home with the mask on and then take it off properly when they get home. What’s so difficult to get about that?

Masks are working in other parts of the world. I don’t know why there’s such a stigma about them here.

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

WhiteMemento9

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well sorry but going by past experience I wouldn't put too much faith in the Irish civil service or the government for that matter, at the best of times they're a comedy of errors nevermind in the face of a global crisis. I'd trust their Belgian, german, Dutch or Austrian counterparts before I'd hang my hopes on them getting it right.

The country has been run incompetently for decades and we've had chance after chance to change it and we haven't. We're going to pay the price for it now like we did in 2009 and it'll be costly indeed. Anyone who thinks its a simple case of staying at home until August and it'll all be grand is lying to themselves.

If that is the case then we hold tight and let the nations we trust the most give us data and experience that we can trust to enact our own plan which is what is playing out at the moment. No one really knows what they are at during this and they are all shooting in the dark. Some countries took a moonshot and got away with it and everyone applauds like they are some kinds of geniuses when the reality is they took a calculated gamble which paid off. If it had backfired they would be hailed as monsters.

We all access situations in our personal lives, take gambles when appropriate after weighing up risk versus reward. Very few of us would take gambles which involve endanering our own lives and that is the kind of high stakes game currently is being asked of governments.

As another poster pointed on this page, memory seems in short supply of where we and other countires where only a short time back.

cian68

ismat wrote: »

It’s nothing to do with stigma. Masks protect other people not you. Unless you are wearing high grade medical masks. It’s ignorance as to what the mask does that is the problem

Isn't wearing it to protect other people a good thing?

LiquidZeb

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If that is the case then we hold tight and let the nations we trust the most give us data and experience that we can trust to enact our own plan which is what is playing out at the moment. No one really knows what they are at during this and they are all shooting in the dark. Some countries took a moonshot and got away with it and everyone applauds like they are some kinds of geniuses when the reality is they took a calculated gamble which paid off. If it had backfired they would be hailed as monsters.

We all access situations in our personal lives, take gambles when appropriate after weighing up risk versus reward. Very few of us would take gambles which involve endanering our own lives and that is the kind of high stakes game currently is being asked of governments.

As another poster pointed on this page, memory seems in short supply of where we and other countires where only a short time back.

I can see where you're coming from but the banks won't accept that argument when it comes to mortgages on homes and businesses, same with landlords. We're talking thousands of people claiming benefits for months who might not have jobs to go back to in sectors that could be decimated for years to come.