Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

SusieBlue

SusieBlue wrote: »

In my opinion, you are being wilfully obtuse now because not one person has said getting a haircut is more important than patient safety. Not one.

But please, feel free to argue against a point that absolutely no one is making while completely misrepresenting the facts.

So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then

Mike3287

GocRh wrote: »

Most countries in Europe require face masks to be used in closed public spaces, and are re-opening their economies much faster than us, and they all seem to have managed to procure masks.


I work with colleagues based in Portugal. Masks can be found in every supermarket and pharmacy, cost 1 EUR or less, and have been available for weeks now.


If countries like Portugal, with a population twice the size of Ireland and a much lower GDP per capita managed to source masks, why can't we?

Masks are in plentiful supply here

Loads of shops have them now, Lidl have massive stock, limitless places online

If you want a mask they are here

Carol25

I’m just reading Luke O’Neil’s article in the Irish Independent and took this direct quote from the article:

‘The Irish Government is taking things cautiously, most likely because we are not where we want to be with testing, tracing and isolating. As well as protecting the vulnerable, this has to be the number one priority right now’.

We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing. There needs to be more transparency with the public on what exactly is going on behind the scenes.
This is costing lives, billions of Euros and thousands of jobs, the stakes could not be higher and the media’s incompetence in publishing the relevant information has been very poor during this crisis.

SusieBlue

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then

Are you capable of making a point without resorting to strawman arguments and moving the goalposts?

So you acknowledge that these businesses were under the impression they would be permitted to resume trading after May 5th and planned accordingly?
You surely have no issue with it then, we can agree that it’s just common sense and that the average business owner bears no responsibility for the ineptitude of your employer.

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you agree that appropriate PPE should be earmarked for HCPs to protect patients? I guess we broadly agree then

So the hse should buy them then? What are they waiting for? The magic mask fairy to deliver them without them lifting a finger? Its not rocket science. If there are masks available for the general public to purchase then there is no excuse for the HSE to be under supplied is there? And if they are then the blame lies solely on those responsible for sourcing these supplies

mooseknunkle

Deleted User wrote: »

Patient safety is number one. I can only speak about how I have to reuse masks due to supply issues. In my opinion (maybe not others), patient safety is ranked a lot higher than getting a haircut.

Yesterday Aer Lingus carried its 100th load from China,1300 tonnes of PPE and you are saying you have to reuse masks,what are the HSE doing with it all?

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/1261734709991813122

iamwhoiam

There is no shortage of PPE , there was no 300% increase in patients anywhere
Go figure

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There is no shortage of PPE , there was no 300% increase in patients anywhere
Go figure

I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.

What you saw.

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Literally nobody I know well has contracted COVID 19 so far. This is great because 2 months ago, I thought a lot of people I know (myself included) would have had it by now. Long may it last.

The only person I know (knew) who had it, he tested positive postmortem after a terrible death from cancer. The week he died, his consultant told him and the family that he had days left and the cancer had metastasised beyond control or remission. Now his family are undergoing legal action to have 'COVID 19' removed as the official cause of his death, because well, he died from cancer.

This happened weeks ago, and ever since then (and the CMO's clarification on how they are recording COVID deaths and what constitutes one) I have been taking those daily death numbers with a pinch of salt. I like that we have recorded and reported our COVID 19 deaths more thoroughly than the UK, but I feel with the likes of the above we have gone overboard in the opposite direction.

That is one patient.
If you want balance there are few more who died of an unexpectedly vicious pneumonia early / mid February but were never tested and weren't classified as Covid.

brokensoul

Deleted User wrote: »

I can only say what I seen in the particular hospital.i work in over the weekend. There can be delays in reporting to HSE. Especially at weekends.

A 300% increase from what to what though?

In the absence of numbers that information doesn't really mean anything.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If your main concern is patient safety then just buy your own and take them to work if the HSE really are so inept. Plenty available. Unless you really just want to get a dig in a hairdressers for some weird reason. In that case, carry on!

When you are work through your lunch hour reviewing patients, sorting outpatients, attending MDTs. You don't tend to have time to go to community pharmacies to buy masks. Strangely, most places are closed when I get out of work.

average_runner

Carol25 wrote: »

I’m just reading Luke O’Neil’s article in the Irish Independent and took this direct quote from the article:

‘The Irish Government is taking things cautiously, most likely because we are not where we want to be with testing, tracing and isolating. As well as protecting the vulnerable, this has to be the number one priority right now’.

We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing. There needs to be more transparency with the public on what exactly is going on behind the scenes.
This is costing lives, billions of Euros and thousands of jobs, the stakes could not be higher and the media’s incompetence in publishing the relevant information has been very poor during this crisis.

Independent is a trash negative bad journalists paper.

Testing is getting faster, brother got tested on Thursday and result on Friday. That is good.

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

That is one patient.
If you want balance there are few more who died of an unexpectedly vicious pneumonia early / mid February but were never tested and weren't classified as Covid.

What's your point? That these people died from Covid 19 and I should have known that while posting my own anecdotal account?

Whether people choose to believe what I posted is one thing, but I presented a case where there was a real human and family. You are whatabouting now about deaths in February which were never tested and may or may not have been related to Covid 19.

It doesn't at all detract from my point that the reported death numbers are not crystal clear. If anything, it supports it.

fly_agaric

Carol25 wrote: »

We’ve been closed since March...and they still have not the strictures in place that we need re testing.

Awful healthcare IT + years of under investment IMO.
Reliance on manual processes, form filling etc that should have been done away with long ago.
I saw lack of a patient identifier across hospital system was mentioned in an IT article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/technical-issues-and-errors-slowing-down-covid-19-testing-and-tracing-in-ireland-1.4251980

Ireland’s testing and tracing system for Covid-19 has been slowed by a range of technical issues, including data entry errors, a lack of automation and systems that cannot interact with each other.

These issues, including the absence of unique patient identifiers and a system for laboratory information management, have pushed the timeframe for testing and tracing beyond expert recommendations.

Of course Ireland also has no citizen/resident ID system in place either as that would be "big brother gone mad" or whatever.
It is hard if not impossible to fix these issues completely in 8 weeks no matter how much money and people you throw at it but they seem to be getting on top of the problems to some extent (better than in March anyway). Efficiency + effectiveness of the whole testing/tracing/quarantine system obviously will affect ability to respond to any new outbreak of cases IMO and how quickly restrictions can be eased.

Mike3287

[Deleted User] wrote: »

http://medpharm.ie/why-hospital-pharmacy-jobs-are-increasing-more-in-ireland-than-ever/

Maybe this will help? Don't even know what a PO is?
Give you a taste of what a hospital pharmacist does.

Thanks for link, does look an interesting job, pay is good

You kind of proved my point on confusion

78 hospital pharmacists in Ireland vs 2000 or so community pharmacists, its not common.I honestly didn't think we had them here

PO, purchase order

Who purchases the medication/medical supplies for a hospital?

SketchyPrince

Hi lads, going to preface this by saying I'm not trying to go outside of restrictions and whatnot.

Just wondering what's the story with being turned away at checkpoints nowadays - is there a punishment now (aside from when having a load of people in a car)?

Many thanks.

Mike3287

Mike3287 wrote: »

Thanks for link, does look an interesting job, pay is good

You kind of proved my point on confusion

78 hospital pharmacists in Ireland vs 2000 or so community pharmacists, its not common.I honestly didn't think we had them here

PO, purchase order

Who purchases the medication/medical supplies for a hospital?

Pharmacy procurement, I work in a more clinical area.

The 78 Vs 2000 in that article refers to pharmacies rather than pharmacists by the way.

Mike3287

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pharmacy procurement, I work in a more clinical area.

Cool

Get you

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's your point? That these people died from Covid 19 and I should have known that while posting my own anecdotal account?

Whether people choose to believe what I posted is one thing, but I presented a case where there was a real human and family. You are whatabouting now about deaths in February which were never tested and may or may not have been related to Covid 19.

It doesn't at all detract from my point that the reported death numbers are not crystal clear. If anything, it supports it.

It does , crystal clear in both directions , that's my point ! I never said I didn't believe your personal anecdote , but was showing the case for the other side of the argument.
And just to make it even clearer , all of these borderline cases are being reviewed , that was what I was saying
Can you be a little more polite now please, next time you answer. I wasn't rude to you .

Too much angry stuff going on in this thread. Attacking posters because you hold a different viewpoint is not going to lead to any discussion or debate
I know people are upset and tense but some of this is beyond unreasonable, come on .

croker99

Can you go to one of the shops opening tomorrow if they are outside 5km from your home?

croker99

croker99 wrote: »

Can you go to one of the shops opening tomorrow if they are outside 5km from your home?

As far as I know yes. 5km is only for exercise

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As far as I know yes. 5km is only for exercise

No, as far as I know it is both shops and exercise.

SusieBlue

Goldengirl wrote: »

No, as far as I know it is both shops and exercise.

It was never for shops, all along you could go to any shop any distance from your home.
The 2km/5km rule was for exercise only. Sure some people don’t even live within 5km of a supermarket.

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Like I said, I know very little.of procurement outside medications but we are finding it difficult to source PPE. I don't care about myself really, it's the patients I'm.concerned for. Maybe it is the Hoses fault but people.bulk ordering PPE for a hair cut months in advance of opening makes it difficult to treat patients safely now

If the HSE did proper business continuity planning they would have x amounts of months of PPE in storage

And yes, I know the disposable PPE goes out of date. That's why if they did PROPER BCP they hav at least enough reusable PPE to last 3 months

But like many other public healthcare providers they appear to have gotten caught short, lulled by the fact that MERS/SARS/Swine flu never took gold in the.West and so they failed to prepare

Fail to prepare, prepare to.fail

I can tell you, as can other posters on here, of multinationals who started preparing for thos at the end of January, with task forces.set up to source PPE, global travel bans for business purposes and mandatory two weeks.away from the office if you came back from e.g a skiing trip in.an affected.area

The failings of multiple governments and public healthcare providers in this.regard, cannot be laid at the feet of private industry in this regard, particularly in a country like Ireland where we have one of the highest per capita spend in the EU if not the world on public healthcare, which is further subsidised by the 50% of the population whose private insurance is used to fund their public healthcare

showpony1

just reading back over this thread - i don't recall at any stage when this kicked off getting the impression in any way that i'd be walking into a barbers on May 5th (much to my horror). I can't see how hairdressers would have thought they'd be open for business then.

showpony1

bb1234567 wrote: »

Saw two large groups of teenagers out on my walk. One group was very large, at least 20, they were Spanish. I thought most foreign students would have returned home. Looked like they were making a point of not social distancing, many sitting on each other's laps etc.

The other group was just 4-5 people, though they were sitting extremely close together, like a few inches between each of them

Garda was in the park and didn't say anything to either group. And I dont really care at this point, I think we need to just get on with normal life, but there is absolutely going to be a very widespread second wave, if you think the country is is going to maintain even a moderate amount of social distancing throughout the summer youre away with the fairies

some posts here in this thread will have you believe literally nothing will happen to you if you're below 60 - then you've posts above as if teens shouldn't be within a mile of each other. most all over the place thread i've ever read.

CBear1993

showpony1 wrote: »

some posts here in this thread will have you believe literally nothing will happen to you if you're below 60 - then you've posts above as if teens shouldn't be within a mile of each other. most all over the place thread i've ever read.

Will be interesting to see the amount of nosy neighbour *****hawks waiting for their local construction site to open tomorrow and post any little violation they can conjure up in their mind to social media.

(Largely) Men going back to work to feed their families, meanwhile the actual perpetrators of this are the fat cat developers sitting in the head offices. The boots on the ground men have no choice as they have contractual obligations to fulfil.

So think twice before we go on a rant on twitter about 2 lads 1.9m apart while lifting a load.

amandstu

SusieBlue wrote: »

It was never for shops, all along you could go to any shop any distance from your home.
The 2km/5km rule was for exercise only. Sure some people don’t even live within 5km of a supermarket.

Surely not any distance.....only within reason.
You couldn't get your groceries in Limerick if you lived in Cork

Pretty sure you can't travel long distances to a Garden Centre for instance unless it is essential. (Have been told that, anyway)

Stheno

amandstu wrote: »

Surely not any distance.....only within reason.
You couldn't get your groceries in Limerick if you lived in Cork

Pretty sure you can't travel long distances to a Garden Centre for instance unless it is essential. (Have been told that, anyway)

Our leaders have not been clear on this to be fair