Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Tensions truly are high in this thread. We all need to calm down. We are talking about idealistic things of "lifting restrictions" or "not lifting restrictions".

Was out and about around Phoenix park:

Reality is, every business/small shop I've just walked by is opened, some offering outside seating, completely disregarding govt's "plan".

See group of 20 + people completely disregarding social distancing rules.

2 people were wearing masks (out of about 300 I came across)

And then I had a very awkward encounter, as I was leaving Phoenix park there was a mother and her daughter trying to get in, I just stepped outside of the park and was somewhat in the way, froze up as they were approaching me fast and breaking social distancing.

As I stood there a bit paralysed thinking of doing a bit of social distancing, daughter walked by me with less than 1 metre between us, while her mother looked at me and said "just walk, its not difficult".

Damn was she right. Walked right past me. Social distancing seems to be a thing we read here + advertised on TV. it is not a thing out there in real world...

Just a matter of opening businesses now, hopefully ahead of schedule.

I'd say for the most part people are calm to be fair and are engaging with the discussion. However some seem to be resorting to being uncivil and name calling. That's certainly not needed.

As to the rest - telling stories of breaking restrictions is one thing. Promoting others to do the same is not only irresponsible but downright stupid imho.

And from what you said no I dont believe that woman was 'right' at all.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

I'd say for the most part people are calm to be fair and are engaging with the discussion. However some seem to be resorting to being uncivil and name calling. That's certainly not needed.

As to the rest - telling stories of breaking restrictions is one thing. Promoting others to do the same is not only irresponsible but downright stupid imho.

And from what you said no I dont believe that woman was 'right' at all.

I am not promoting anything, just shared a life experience.

There is 1 thing we arent thinking about, (which is understandable, a lot going on) the entire infrastructure (around Dublin anyways) is not made for social distancing. I struggle to social distance when walking on footpaths... they are very narrow.

Person who walked in front of me stepped onto the road to walk around me and nearly got hit by a car. What's your opinion of feasibility to social distance given the clear risks it may present to one's health? People need to be careful and remember that there are many more dangers when walking outside than covid.

gozunda

uli84 wrote: »

For all I care they can close the borders in Ireland as well, in fact they should as for public transport it’s back now but taking limited numbers of passengers as reasonable safety measure.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-poland-restriction/poland-to-reopen-hotels-and-shopping-malls-on-may-4-pm-idUSKCN22B11Q


As of today re-opening of restaurants and pubs with outdoor sitting has been confirmed for next week.

That article is dated thd 29 April and details that

Further steps to unfreeze the economy, including a reopening of restaurants, will be announced at a later date, Morawiecki said. Poles are still required to wear masks in public 

The government has also not given any indication when it might re-open the country’s borders.

Poland, which has a population of 38 million, had reported 12,415 cases of the new coronavirus and 606 deaths as of Wednesday.

Imagine telling people they have to wear masks here. Some here would explode in a blue fit.

Looks like their infection rate and numbers of dead have been kept down. Fair play.

scamalert

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

Unlike Chairman Kim, I believe in preserving life, not ending it.

meath lad cork boy, wtf is this troll fest ?

Dyr

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are many reasons why people would prefer to work in an office rather than at home

They can get over them, seriously, we're going to address the fundamental problems with our society this way

[/QUOTE]

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Take a parent of a young family with no spare room and the down stairs an open plan . He /she would have to sit at a kitchen table while the young kids are trying to have a normal life in the same room
Take a young person sharing a house living in a box room and sharing living space with 5 others . Or a family with three or four working adults trying to find space and peace to work from home

You're highlighting issues caused by our caused by our dysfuntional property market, not benefits of offices

A dysfunction caused by urbanisation, commuter belts, airbnb, our service industries requiring a huge amount of cheap imported labour and the massive poperty requirements of our third level system. That's all going by bye, sayonara, good luck to ye.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are numerous reason why people need to work in an office not least of them for company and adult conversation

Which tells you that your life is fundamentally f***ked and utterly dominated by your employment. You don't need to be in an office to converse with your colleagues as we've found out.

You're surrounded by humans, get a social life. You've now got two-four extra hours that you wont spend in traffic. You're welcome.

Dyr

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am not promoting anything, just shared a life experience.

There is 1 thing we arent thinking about, (which is understandable, a lot going on) the entire infrastructure (around Dublin anyways) is not made for social distancing. I struggle to social distance when walking on footpaths... they are very narrow.

Person who walked in front of me stepped onto the road to walk around me and nearly got hit by a car. What's your opinion of feasibility to social distance given the clear risks it may present to one's health? People need to be careful and remember that there are many more dangers when walking outside than covid.

We narrowed our paths to accomodate cycle lanes and luas lanes, stops etc

Was a bad idea at the time, but you know the holy grail for some

Stark

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am not promoting anything, just shared a life experience.

There is 1 thing we arent thinking about, (which is understandable, a lot going on) the entire infrastructure (around Dublin anyways) is not made for social distancing. I struggle to social distance when walking on footpaths... they are very narrow.

Person who walked in front of me stepped onto the road to walk around me and nearly got hit by a car. What's your opinion of feasibility to social distance given the clear risks it may present to one's health? People need to be careful and remember that there are many more dangers when walking outside than covid.

If any good comes of the crisis, it'll be reallocation of street space back to the population at large of the city. No more being forced to fight your way through 1.5m wide footpaths with hundreds of other pedestrians while the small cohort of people who insist on driving into the city enjoy a dual carriageway alongside you.

Bambi wrote:

You're surrounded by humans, get a social life. You've now got two-four extra hours that you wont spend in traffic. You're welcome.

I had a social life before all of this, not any more. Social contact is bad mmmkay.

Bambi wrote:

We narrowed our paths to accomodate cycle lanes and luas lanes, stops etc

Was a bad idea at the time, but you know the holy grail for some

The bad idea was taking that space away from pedestrians when we have multiple lanes for car traffic throughout the city.

uli84

gozunda wrote: »

That article is dated thd 29 April and details that



Imagine telling people they have to wear masks here. Some here would explode in a blue fit.

Looks like their infection rate and numbers of dead have been kept down. Fair play.

No, they are just not testing much but that’s another story. Either way I know for a fact that at Easter someone travelled from Lodz to Warsaw (130km) and back and hasn’t been bothered by anyone - not by the police nor army. As for the masks you can throw every stupid reason why you can’t wear them and it’s being accepted
either way I don’t think there would be much uproar here if people were told the shops/restaurants/what not/ will be re-opened if they wear the mask.

easypazz

So what is the plan with the homeless this winter?

The hostels will hardly be able to cope with social distancing requirements etc.?

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/sathyajames/status/1258848327388536837

iamwhoiam

Bambi wrote: »

They can get over them, seriously, we're going to address the fundamental problems with our society this way

You're highlighting issues caused by our caused by our dysfuntional property market, not benefits of offices

A dysfunction caused by urbanisation, commuter belts, airbnb, our service industries requiring a huge amount of cheap imported labour and the massive poperty requirements of our third level system. That's all going by bye, sayonara, good luck to ye.





Which tells you that your life is fundamentally f***ked and utterly dominated by your employment. You don't need to be in an office to converse with your colleagues as we've found out.

You're surrounded by humans, get a social life. You've now got two-four extra hours that you wont spend in traffic. You're welcome.[/quote]







Haha ! I don’t need your patronising lecture . I am retired and enjoying life while also supporting my family and being part of their lives
One thing that life has thought me is that we all differ and our needs are different so I would never presume whats good for me is good for another

Ginger n Lemon

Interesting news that will likely affect Ireland

"
On the German side, a group of 12 lawmakers from Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) published an open letter to Seehofer late Wednesday, "calling for the immediate reopening of all closed border crossings" with Switzerland, France and Luxembourg.

Call for European action
CDU lawmaker Caspary on Thursday urged the European Commission to intervene. Border controls "heavily jeopardize not only the vital daily cross-border exchange, but also threaten the ideal of European unity," Caspary wrote in a letter to Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, seen by POLITICO.

He added, "I urgently seek you to ensure that the implemented border controls will cease on 15 May 2020."

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-under-pressure-to-lift-its-coronavirus-border-restrictions/

Its interesting that whilst we may think we control our borders, the control of our borders is really with EU. And it seems like EU is eager to open borders sooner rather than later.

Dyr

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Haha ! I don’t need your patronising lecture . I am retired and enjoying life while also supporting my family and being part of their lives
One thing that life has thought me is that we all differ and our needs are different so I would never presume whats good for me is good for anothe.

Patronise you? If I was going to patronise you I'd explain the difference between "thought" and "taught" to you or somesuch

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

There was 20000 in Spain and maybe the same in Cheltenham.

A rough estimate would be 100000 needing to be repatriated.

Where do you suggest these go for 14 days?

Well gee - I dont know. But if the Polish can do it. Then I'm sure someone could have figured if out.

I suspect your may be overestimating your 'maybes' there tbh.

I was correct that at least some of those calling for the removal of restrictions - also believe that travel restrictions were never needed...

CoronaBlocker

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Most realistic WFH roles are 9-5 jobs, that have zero requirements for hands on tasks. Thats already eliminated the options down to admin and IT roles.
The issue with IT will then be, if it can be done from some guys house in Carlow it can be outsourced to cheap labour countries. Be careful what we wish for

How does that play when you factor in the PPE shortages? We had to send a plane to China for more - but companies here are now producing them I believe. First world nations are already looking at pulling manufacturing home (this would have happened eventually anyway through Globalisation standardising salaries around the world) as a partial fix to what the virus has done and more.

My point being that it would appear there is a new coversation happening about bringing production home to allow for faster reaction times and increased control over supply - not to mention the employment. Why would IT go against that all of a sudden - especially when it never did up until now anyway?

alwald

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There is also a need to support local businesses. Think of all the lunch places around your offices - all of them will go out of business very quickly if office buildings remain empty. Some of suggestions here could create unemployment of epic proportions, 28.2% from CSO the other day will seem like a low figure.

The biggest issue with most of your posts if that you only think of problems, doom and gloom. If WFH becomes the norm then those businesses need to adapt and offer delivery services...people must adapt to the situation and most businesses will, which in fact will create more jobs .

stephenjmcd

First day that Bray seafront has been very busy during this, even the bank holidays weren't as busy. Plenty of people on the beach. Coffee shops and ice cream places open for takeaways. Its basically a normal summers day, social distancing isn't being maintained, plenty coming off the dart onto the seafront.

Social distancing won't be maintained long term based on what I'm seeing today.

Quite clear that the public who moved ahead of advice when restricting themselves are now moving ahead of advice on relaxation of restrictions too.

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Interesting news that will likely affect Ireland

"On the German side, a group of 12 lawmakers from Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) published an open letter to Seehofer late Wednesday, "calling for the immediate reopening of all closed border crossings" with Switzerland, France and Luxembourg.

Call for European action
CDU lawmaker Caspary on Thursday urged the European Commission to intervene. Border controls "heavily jeopardize not only the vital daily cross-border exchange, but also threaten the ideal of European unity," Caspary wrote in a letter to Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, seen by POLITICO.

He added, "I urgently seek you to ensure that the implemented border controls will cease on 15 May 2020."

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-under-pressure-to-lift-its-coronavirus-border-restrictions/

Its interesting that whilst we may think we control our borders, the control of our borders is really with EU. And it seems like EU is eager to open borders sooner rather than later.

Ah the Germans again! More shenanigans I'd warrant.

No no no! :pac:

Germany was not tardy in closing its own borders with neighbouring countries whilst using its EU position to tell other countries not to do so.....

In the case above we now have (a renegade?) bunch of Angela Merkels own party who want Germany's borders reopened. Their case is supported by Daniel Caspary - a German politician who has been serving as a Member of the European Parliament since 2004. He is also a member of the Christian Democratic Union (Merkels party) part of the European People's Party...

You couldn't make it up ...

CoronaBlocker

gozunda wrote: »

That article is dated thd 29 April and details that



Imagine telling people they have to wear masks here. Some here would explode in a blue fit.

Looks like their infection rate and numbers of dead have been kept down. Fair play.

I've been wondering about the stiffer elements of lockdown, masks etc in other European nations and the complicity of populations to these measures... many European nations have - some reasonably recently - been under military force and many still live with militarised police forces on their streets today. Many still have (or up until very recently still had) military service for the young. These will all make a population much more compliant at times like these. These people know how to obey.

I'm quite proud of our dislike of these measures and general negative reaction to any overbearing state action. It's often perceived as childish but is actually a sign of a population that values freedom. Not that we'd ever be forced into admitting it.

That's also not to say that we value our freedom above our health... we have complied well with these measures - but the grumbling about them that we do is valuable I think.

Rodin

Meath Lad42 wrote: »

I believe the Army could shut down the border and a volunteer group of civic minded folk could be given temporary power and uniforms to act as a civil defence force to monitor people who return to Ireland from abroad

Just won't happen.

Rodin

gozunda wrote: »

Ah the Germans again! More shenanigans I'd warrant.

No no no! :pac:

Germany was not tardy in closing its own borders with neighbouring countries whilst using its EU position to tell other countries not to do so.....

In the case above we now have (a renegade?) bunch of Angela Merkels own party who want Germany's borders reopened. Their case is supported by Daniel Caspary - a German politician who has been serving as a Member of the European Parliament since 2004. He is also a member of the Christian Democratic Union (Merkels party) part of the European People's Party...

You couldn't make it up ...

We no longer have an intra-EU border

snotboogie

Bambi wrote: »

Leaving the house? You'd be free to leave the house whenever you want Somewhat odd that you'd consider not having to commute to work would equate to being a shut in

I said curtail leaving the house not ban leaving the house. People spend 40 hours a week working, the idea that doing this at home alone as opposed to in a communal office won't isolate people is fanciful. The fact that this ties in with DeValeraesque fantiaies of utopian deurbanization is even more worrying. Our cities are under serviced, the solution to this is to build the services needed and help our cities grow stronger, it is not to depopulate the cities in favour of cocooned workers in dotted McMansions.

Ginger n Lemon

alwald wrote: »

The biggest issue with most of your posts if that you only think of problems, doom and gloom. If WFH becomes the norm then those businesses need to adapt and offer delivery services...people must adapt to the situation and most businesses will, which in fact will create more jobs .

I dont think you fully understand how this works.

9/10 places serving lunch in city centre have people in the kitchen making food, have people at the counter taking in cash/payment, have staff who clean /look after the seating area and some businesses will have security.

If these businesses "adapt" to your proposal, 75% of jobs will be lost and only jobs that will remain are the kitchen ones.

When do we start creating "more jobs" as you say?

Its not doom and gloom, i am very sorry to tell you this, its the reality. 28% CSO unemployment figure is a reality. What we are discussing here is how much will that % be when we are at 10th of August. If businesses adapt to takeaways then this figure may very well be 18% - 20% into the future.

CoronaBlocker

easypazz wrote: »

So what is the plan with the homeless this winter?

The hostels will hardly be able to cope with social distancing requirements etc.?

AirBnB 's market share has shrunk enormously in recent weeks, hasn't it? Shall not those properties appear on the long-term market now? Are they not already? I thought that this was taking care of itself..?

niallo27

stephenjmcd wrote: »

First day that Bray seafront has been very busy during this, even the bank holidays weren't as busy. Plenty of people on the beach. Coffee shops and ice cream places open for takeaways. Its basically a normal summers day, social distancing isn't being maintained, plenty coming off the dart onto the seafront.

Social distancing won't be maintained long term based on what I'm seeing today.

Quite clear that the public who moved ahead of advice when restricting themselves are now moving ahead of advice on relaxation of restrictions too.

Did you see people from different families breaking the 2 metre rule for more than 15 minutes or were they just passing each other.

easypazz

stephenjmcd wrote: »

First day that Bray seafront has been very busy during this, even the bank holidays weren't as busy. Plenty of people on the beach. Coffee shops and ice cream places open for takeaways. Its basically a normal summers day, social distancing isn't being maintained, plenty coming off the dart onto the seafront.

Social distancing won't be maintained long term based on what I'm seeing today.

Quite clear that the public who moved ahead of advice when restricting themselves are now moving ahead of advice on relaxation of restrictions too.

Was there many wearing masks?

stephenjmcd

niallo27 wrote: »

Did you see people from different families breaking the 2 metre rule for more than 15 minutes or were they just passing each other.

As much as I hate ever getting into who's with family and who's not, yes today was the first day I've seen people who I know aren't family sitting together having picnics.

stephenjmcd

easypazz wrote: »

Was there many wearing masks?

Nope, haven't seen anyone with one. Had been a few in the weeks gone by but none that I saw today.

Loozer

Most people seem anxious to get back to normal

I can't see the distancing and masks lasting too long if the horror stories subside

Pubs won't stick with social distancing too long once they get the doors open

niallo27

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As much as I hate ever getting into who's with family and who's not, yes today was the first day I've seen people who I know aren't family sitting together having picnics.

Its the next logical step, to go from direct family to your circle of friends. As Leo said himself there is only a certain time limit you can put on restrictions and with the over the top restriction phases we have in place, it is not viable. Other European countries have seen this and have planned accordingly.