Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

stephenjmcd

From rte
Spain aims to reopen borders to visitors around the end of June as its coronavirus lockdown fully unwinds.

The government surprised its European Union partners by imposing a two-week quarantine on all overseas travellers and effectively keeping borders closed, saying that was needed to avoid importing a second wave of the virus.

But the move was meant to be temporary and Transport Minister Jose Luis Abalos said it would be phased out in parallel with travel being allowed within Spain.

MrDavid1976

is_that_so wrote: »

We're not Iran and they seem to have been bouncing around a load of very changeable exit plans for quite a while. But why Iran anyway? Why not Denmark, NZ, Oz or Germany?

Even if it was relevant. Iran has a population of 82 million. How do we know if this was as a result of a massive increase in testing? Testing taking place in hospitals of sick people? Nursing homes? Healthcare staff? Or perhaps even (and I know this would never happen elsewhere) but a hospital reporting late or double reporting?

lord quackinton

we all know that when discussing total deaths and total cases from the virus the rules are:

ireland can only be compared to uk
sweden can only be compared to finland
america can only be compared to germany and china

wash, rinse, repeat.

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yes scary Ireland too might suddenly transform into a country of 80 million people with one of the most polluted cities on the planet in the form of Tehran. Really scary stuff.

Highly recommend this book to educate yourself

https://www.amazon.com/City-Lies-Death-Search-Tehran/dp/1610395972

crossman47

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I saw that earlier. I am a bit confused why cant they separate permanently ceased trading and temporarily? Surely its info available to them?

They did. Read it again. Only 0.9% permanently.

stephenjmcd

For all the points made about the HSA having the power to shut down businesses the Unite trade union are saying that 67 HSA inspectors have been assigned to over see that measures are being put in place and adhered to.

67 for the whole country

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Because we've nothing in common with Denmark Austria and Germany but we're practically identical to Iran and Brazil because it fits the narrative.

I think you are easily confused. I didn't mention Iran in the first place.

murpho999

Benimar wrote: »

Given they aren't supposed to open until June 29th, I'd say it is, yes.

Oh yes, Ok I never thought of that I thought they could be open and was referring to it hardly being shocking if people were in it then.

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For all the points made about the HSA having the power to shut down businesses the Unite trade union are saying that 67 HSA inspectors have been assigned to over see that measures are being put in place and adhered to.

67 for the whole country

Plus designated people in every workplace.

nickkinneg

nickkinneg wrote: »

I would reckon this is the relaxation before the next lockdown remember Spanish flu came in 3 waves the last 2 more deadly than the 1st. Sorry to play devils advocate. The 2nd wave affected more young people and was a deadlier strain. The 3rd more deadly than the 1st but not as deadly as the second - effecting more of the Australia region. Late autumn/winter is when it will renew its onslaught. Just my opinion

There is no evidence whatsoever that a second wave would be more or less deadly that the first. This is not an influenza so using an influenza outbreak to predict what may happen with this virus is pointless. It also didn't happen with the 1968 or 2009 influenza pandemics, so is not even a particularly good barometer of what happens with the flu.

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Some random lad on newstalk

"Why have we been paying so much tax for so many years that we cant take a 6 month break and control this pandemic properly"

"Why cant we afford to take a break"

"20 bn borrowing is nothing in terms of world economy"

I've heard it all now. His response to 28% unemployment?

"high unemployment is because of a lockdown but when we ease restrictions we ll be back to normal. I am sorry for that but its time for government to show leadership and identify businesses that were affected and help them"

Damn I am so close to giving up.........

Let's see how cavalier he is when his sector is hit with job losses. He'll be making a very different call to newstalk then.

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

Plus designated people in every workplace.

Yeah but the designated people arent HSA people they're assigned by the workplace.

In terms of enforcement it seems like a very small number of inspectors.

Ginger n Lemon

crossman47 wrote: »

They did. Read it again. Only 0.9% permanently.

Mmmmm I see. Thats probably much lower than reality, given that any liquidated business is unlikely to be filling out CSO surveys. Response rate of 24% is worryingly low.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

The only commentary I've seen on this is those put on ventilators having a 50% chance. A lot of ICU admissions do not go onto ventilators (hence the almost obsession over whether Boris went on one)

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/cbcb6217-f698-ea11-9125-00505601089b

Table 5 Slightly higher number of deaths vs, patients discharged. This number has been pretty static since March.

The HorsesMouth

Day one of phase 1 and already all we are hearing is that if things go anyway wrong we will be going back into lockdown.
We are no more going to go back than the man in the moon. No EU country has gone back yet and they are way ahead of us in terms of lifting restrictions. I wish they (Harris and Holohan especially) would stop taking to us like bold children.

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you are easily confused. I didn't mention Iran in the first place.

Where did I ever say you did I'm referring to people drawing comparisons with other countries pick and choosing what places.

bush

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Let's see how cavalier he is when his sector is hit with job losses. He'll be making a very different call to newstalk then.

Ye exactly, its all great now bumming around in the sun with the covid payment. They will change their tune when its the winter and they are trying to live off 200 euro cos their job is gone.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

file:///C:/Users/12020382/Downloads/ICNARC%20COVID-19%20report%202020-05-15.pdf.pdf


https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

Table 5 Slightly higher number of deaths vs, patients discharged. This number has been pretty static since March.

A better link!
https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/76a7364b-4b76-ea11-9124-00505601089b

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

Iran is now experiencing a second wave it seems after relaxing restrictions, despite the population apparently having a large number of people with antibodies. Cases growing consistently by several hundred daily over the last 14 days, reported 2300 new cases today, the highest number since April 5th

Iran loosened their restrictions on April 20th while still getting 1300 new cases a day, and having dropped by only just over 50% from peak. Is it any surprise 2 weeks later cases started to rise again.

Ginger n Lemon

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Day one of phase 1 and already all we are hearing is that if things go anyway wrong we will be going back into lockdown.
We are no more going to go back than the man in the moon. No EU country has gone back yet and they are way ahead of us in terms of lifting restrictions. I wish they (Harris and Holohan especially) would stop taking to us like bold children.

Yeah, leaves very bad taste in your mouth once you've flattened the curve government wants you to nearly beg to open up and be very afraid of going back into lockdown if cases rise..

Also, why isnt our government talking about any initiatives to get businesses back to work and back to increasing diminished sales? Why isnt Vienna's voucher idea for local businesses being discussed?

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Highly recommend this book to educate yourself

https://www.amazon.com/City-Lies-Death-Search-Tehran/dp/1610395972

I know plenty about Iran and Tehran thank you very much. It is a heavily polluted city.

ek motor

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Day one of phase 1 and already all we are hearing is that if things go anyway wrong we will be going back into lockdown.
We are no more going to go back than the man in the moon. No EU country has gone back yet and they are way ahead of us in terms of lifting restrictions. I wish they (Harris and Holohan especially) would stop taking to us like bold children.

Very early days, ultimately it will be how well we as a people keep the lid on new infections that'll decide any future measures. Hopefully we can keep the numbers similar to what they are currently or lower as we re-start the economy.

is_that_so

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yeah, leaves very bad taste in your mouth once you've flattened the curve government wants you to nearly beg to open up and be very afraid of going back into lockdown if cases rise..

Also, why isnt our government talking about any initiatives to get businesses back to work and back to increasing diminished sales? Why isnt Vienna's voucher idea for local businesses being discussed?

Phase 1 is really a test phase to see how we might live with the virus being around and to see where it goes. Ideas like vouchers are for much later. We do have that new business grants measure.

Conte..

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah but the designated people arent HSA people they're assigned by the workplace.

In terms of enforcement it seems like a very small number of inspectors.

Was to be expected

Sure it isn't it us doing all the work,. government did fukk all apart from shutdown and open up

No thinking outside the box whatsoever

KrustyUCC

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Day one of phase 1 and already all we are hearing is that if things go anyway wrong we will be going back into lockdown.
We are no more going to go back than the man in the moon. No EU country has gone back yet and they are way ahead of us in terms of lifting restrictions. I wish they (Harris and Holohan especially) would stop taking to us like bold children.

Harris is very bad for doom and gloom

Mic 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

Iran loosened their restrictions on April 20th while still getting 1300 new cases a day, and having dropped by only just over 50% from peak. Is it any surprise 2 weeks later cases started to rise again.

Loose restrictions can only lead to increasing numbers, Iran is an interesting example. Europe eventually will have a second wave too due to loose restrictions, hopefully immunity will play a hey role

hmmm

FishOnABike wrote: »

They've previously said reducing the stages to less than three weeks wasn't something they'd see happening.

Given the incubation period and time potentially needed for test and trace and the time needed to see the impact of lifting restrictions in each stage there isn't much scope to reduce the length of each stage.

They have indicated things could be moved from one stage to another. If all goes well it's more likely that some things will be moved to an earlier stage than any stage getting shorter.

Agreed. The phased approach is great, but it's a point-in-time document and will be revised as we learn more about the virus, and as we learn from the experience in other countries. Wouldn't fancy being a politician right now, it will mean that every interest group is going to be parked at their door for the next few weeks asking whether they can go next.

If admitted to ICU, there is roughly a 50% chance of dying from COVID-19 irregardless of sex, age etc. This is what is factoring into slow relaxing of restrictions. Do I think they are going through the process too slowly? Perhaps.

But their plan is more reasonable than any the "pro economic brigade" put forward....

It's easy to be a hurler on the ditch.

MrDavid1976

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0517/1138961-100-days/

Meanwhile, the government that has been making decisions of enormous import is headed by a Taoiseach who, just weeks before the virus struck here, had tendered his resignation to the President. It includes three ministers who lost their seats.

Does this mean there are questions around the legitimacy or authority of the government?

"Constitutionally there is not, but politically there is," said Prof Murphy.

"We have a mandate for the 160 TDs in the Dáil and literally nobody else. Although, constitutionally, ministers who have lost their seats still hold their positions, I think it is not sustainable any longer."

The Constitution envisages that ministers and the Taoiseach stay in office until their replacements are appointed, Dr David Kenny of Trinity College, Dublin explained.

"But the problem seems to be that no one really envisaged it going on for this long or decisions of such magnitude being made by a government that has effectively lost its mandate and can't form a new mandate in the current Dáil," he said.

"The theory the Government has put out is that because they are an acting government, or acting minister, they don't and they don't have the same responsibility to account for themselves to the Dáil or to Dáil committees that they would usually have. They don't have any obligation necessarily to come in and answer questions.

"That means in some ways we have a government that is making some of the most significant decisions that have ever been made by a government in this State and they are doing it without a clear mandate and without Dáil oversight

All it needs is 80 members of the dail to elect a new Taoiseach

Goldengirl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

As I had to experience first hand that statement appears not to be true.

A member of AGS told me first hand that you can not go to any shop any distance from your home. Only if essential (whatever that means) and if you can't get your essential item closer to home.

Of course members of AGS are not infallible either but I must assume they have been briefed properly and not telling me stuff they make up on the spot.

Yes. That is what my husband was told when he went beyond 2 into get handwash earlier in the lockdown and a friend was turned back heading to a chemist outside her zone. They said go to chemist near you instead!
Granted people who live in the country may find that an issue so Leo said , if you absolutely have to get essential shopping or medical supplies, but I don't think trips to other shops or garden centres would fall in to that category. Except for mental health reasons , maybe ?