Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

almostover

average_runner wrote: »

Opening up schools would do nothing, still be in groups

At least they wouldn't be littering public amenities with cans.

SusieBlue

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'd say they'll definitely lift them earlier than then. IMO it's a lot better to give a worst case scenario and then act sooner than give an optimistic estimate and have to tell people that actually, it's going to go on longer than planned. That would be soul destroying.

I actually believed the same until they fudged the businesses included in phase 1 at the 11th hour, due to a ‘typo’.
These businesses had spent all last week getting ready to reopen, setting up new procedures etc only to be told Friday that it was a mistake and that they weren’t allowed open after all.

Meanwhile the drapery, homeware, and clothing retail sections in all of my local Dunnes stores are now open and have been for the last few weeks and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food.
It must be soul destroying for other businesses seeing them open and making money while they’re being prevented from opening for another 3 weeks, after being closed since mid March.

After that I have no doubt that there’ll be more ‘typos’ and miscommunications along the way, and I can’t see them accelerating things at all.

The reality is we should be entering phase 3 on June 8th and not a moment later.
We are ready for it, businesses are ready for it, and the health service is ready for it. With over a million taxpayers now unemployed, the public purse is also most definitely ready for it.
We can’t expect much more compliance from people who have already pretty much sacrificed everything.

There is actually so much tension and anger where I am from that I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump style lockdown protests soon. People have had enough of being chastised when we have done what was asked of us, and now the government aren’t fulfilling their end of the bargain.

MrDavid1976

almostover wrote: »

At least they wouldn't be littering public amenities with cans.

The Leaving Cert decision will look a lot different over the next weeks. And they can’t even head off to the sun resorts.

snowcat

Hurrache wrote: »

Quite a bit of naivety on this thread.

"We're doing great, now let's fire the people who implemented our successfull plans and policies".

WTF is wrong with you.

Ah get out of it. Most giovernments in Europe have had the exact same policies or wildly different policies and we are all coming out of this in the same way. The lockdowns made very marginal differences. Most of the damage was done before the lockdowns.

Hurrache

snowcat wrote: »

Ah get out of it. Most giovernments in Europe have had the exact same policies or wildly different policies and we are all coming out of this in the same way. The lockdowns made very marginal differences. Most of the damage was done before the lockdowns.

Lol

Breezin

almostover wrote: »

First day of easing restrictions not going well. Was in the local park earlier, jammed full of large gangs of teenagers blind drunk. Girlfriend reported it to the Gardai, they've had multiple complaints and had been there earlier to break other groups up. Elderly people out in the park with masks on and terrified. Another local village has had fires lit in a graveyard by drunk teens.

Time to open up the schools or else put them all on work experience in an ICU. Would soften their cough fairly lively.

BTW I'm 29, so not a old fart giving out. Still young enough to remember when I was 15.

Lack of targeted policing while we all are policed because 'we Irish' can't control ourselves.

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

A few reads about your favourite subject: the current situation in Sweden.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/18/not-romanticise-swedens-ill-prepared-adrift-coronavirus-response/

https://www.france24.com/en/20200517-sweden-s-covid-19-strategy-has-caused-an-amplification-of-the-epidemic

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-economy-likely-wont-benefit-from-decision-avoid-lockdown-report-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

Could you please admit that multiple scientists are showing that covid is dying out by itself?

I dont kno why we talk about Sweden, their unemployment numbers arent even in double digits. While their deaths per 1 million is nearly identical to ours. Trust me you dont want to get that cat out of the bag.

uli84

average_runner wrote: »

Opening up schools would do nothing, still be in groups

Well they would spend most of their time occupied with something rather than causing troubles which will start very soon

Naos

Deleted User wrote: »

We've completely overreacted to Covid and the 3 month plan is 2 months too long... We never even had a first wave in Ireland.

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

uli84

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

It was hardly a lockdown apparently as those supporting it are saying so...(?)

SusieBlue

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

It depends really on whether you believe the first reported case in Ireland was actually the first case.

If coronavirus has been proven to have been in France since early December (at a minimum, I have seen reports that suggest it could be as far back as October) I see no reason to believe it wasn’t here too.
And if that’s the case, it throws the whole timeline up in the air because we’re actually a lot further along with this disease than we’re accounting for.
So this whole theory of first/second waves etc hinges on when you believe we had our first case.

Ginger n Lemon

More good news from Denmark

"Denmark’s cafes, restaurants and pubs are reopening, after two months of lockdown.

It’s the latest chapter in Denmark’s phased easing of restrictions.

Social distancing has been scaled back from 2m (6.5ft) to 1m. It means more customers can be seated, making it more viable for restaurants to reopen.

“The two metres was a big issue because it didn't allow us to have enough revenue,” says Jacob Niebuhr, Chairman of Denmark’s Restaurant and Cafe Association."

They had 69 new cases today and 4 covid deaths. It is getting quite obvious that countries do not wait for 6 - 8 new cases a day to start opening. Why are we waiting?

Note how they believe more customers seated = makes it viable for restaurants to open.

Have a bad feeling with all the "covid monitor employee" paranoia going on, and even worse imposed, we ll make it impossible for businesses to operate given the 50% reduced capacity requirement already.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

More good news from Denmark

"Denmark’s cafes, restaurants and pubs are reopening, after two months of lockdown.

It’s the latest chapter in Denmark’s phased easing of restrictions.

Social distancing has been scaled back from 2m (6.5ft) to 1m. It means more customers can be seated, making it more viable for restaurants to reopen.

“The two metres was a big issue because it didn't allow us to have enough revenue,” says Jacob Niebuhr, Chairman of Denmark’s Restaurant and Cafe Association."

They had 69 new cases today and 4 covid deaths. It is getting quite obvious that countries do not wait for 6 - 8 new cases a day to start opening. Why are we waiting?

Note how they believe more customers seated = makes it viable for restaurants to open.

Have a bad feeling with all the "covid monitor employee" paranoia going on, and even worse imposed, we ll make it impossible for businesses to operate given the 50% reduced capacity requirement already.

While John and Jane have to wait till late July for a haircut here, thanks to our lord and saviour Tony :rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss

growleaves wrote: »

Charlie Chawkes pubs already have restaurant licences and he's announced they're reopening in June.

I'd have more sympathy for him and the other publicans if their 'restaurants/pubs' had ever had any commitment to serving food late at night.
But in so many places I've been greeted with a 'kitchen closed' growl when trying to order something at 9.01pm, with 3 hours of drinking time left.

statesaver

4 deaths, RIP, 88 new cases,great news.

Now let me go back to work FFS

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Could you please admit that multiple scientists are showing that covid is dying out by itself?

I dont kno why we talk about Sweden, their unemployment numbers arent even in double digits. While their deaths per 1 million is nearly identical to ours. Trust me you dont want to get that cat out of the bag.

I've said before, if over 90% of deaths are over 65, deaths per million of total population is a poor indicator of how a country is coping.
This is not killing younger people in significant numbers.

Readjusted figures for over 65 show a different story.

lainey_d_123

SusieBlue wrote: »

I actually believed the same until they fudged the businesses included in phase 1 at the 11th hour, due to a ‘typo’.
These businesses had spent all last week getting ready to reopen, setting up new procedures etc only to be told Friday that it was a mistake and that they weren’t allowed open after all.

Meanwhile the drapery, homeware, and clothing retail sections in all of my local Dunnes stores are now open and have been for the last few weeks and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food.
It must be soul destroying for other businesses seeing them open and making money while they’re being prevented from opening for another 3 weeks, after being closed since mid March.

After that I have no doubt that there’ll be more ‘typos’ and miscommunications along the way, and I can’t see them accelerating things at all.

The reality is we should be entering phase 3 on June 8th and not a moment later.
We are ready for it, businesses are ready for it, and the health service is ready for it. With over a million taxpayers now unemployed, the public purse is also most definitely ready for it.
We can’t expect much more compliance from people who have already pretty much sacrificed everything.

There is actually so much tension and anger where I am from that I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump style lockdown protests soon. People have had enough of being chastised when we have done what was asked of us, and now the government aren’t fulfilling their end of the bargain.

Can't argue with any of that. Wasn't aware of the error in the guidance - that must have been very frustrating for those businesses

SusieBlue wrote: »

It depends really on whether you believe the first reported case in Ireland was actually the first case.

If coronavirus has been proven to have been in France since early December (at a minimum, I have seen reports that suggest it could be as far back as October) I see no reason to believe it wasn’t here too.
And if that’s the case, it throws the whole timeline up in the air because we’re actually a lot further along with this disease than we’re accounting for.
So this whole theory of first/second waves etc hinges on when you believe we had our first case.

Has that been conclusively proven? Weren't the first few cases in Wuhan thought to have been in late November? So it's not completely out of the realms of possibility that a handful of people might have been infected in France from someone who had just come from there, without that implying any community spread in Europe at that time.

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I've said before, if over 90% of deaths are over 65, deaths per million of total population is a poor indicator of how a country is coping.
This is not killing younger people in significant numbers.

Readjusted figures for over 65 show a different story.

Whichever way you look at it, you are more likely to die from a car crash than covid. you called it correctly all those weeks ago.

Car crash is actually 4 times more deadly/likely as is. Be careful on the roads.

Jim Bob Scratcher

statesaver wrote: »

4 deaths, RIP, 88 new cases,great news.

Now let me go back to work FFS

lets keep everything locked down indefinitely, the magic money tree will pay for it :rolleyes:

Ginger n Lemon

"While speaking to the Sunday Independent this weekend, Prof Ziegler pointed out that the downward trend in each country occurred as soon as the public became aware of the danger.

He said: "What that means is that the level of intensity of the restrictions [whether mild restrictions or full lockdown] is not what really counts. What really counts is human behaviour.

"People need to practise social distancing, washing their hands, wearing masks, not touching one's face and avoiding large crowds, but the data shows that preventing people from going out makes very little difference, once all of these are in place."

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/longer-lockdown-not-warranted-says-leading-immunologist-39176618.html

This is an interview from 3rd of May. They did studies on 24 countries (some in lockdowns, some arent). That in bold really hits home doesnt it....

Fintan are you happy with todays numbers? Does it warrant a haircut in June perhaps instead of July?

Dr. Bre

Those low figures will hurt the new normal brigade

Naos

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

I actually supported going into lockdown originally.
I think the lockdown served it’s purpose up until a few weeks back.

Lockdown was only ever supposed to be a temporary measure to buy us some time to get up to speed and ensure the illness didn’t get out of control.

I still support schools staying closed until September. Let the kids have a break, they’re probably traumatised seeing people wearing masks and PPE. I still support social distancing. I support keeping pubs closed for a while longer.

At this point though, the economy is in bits and the disease is more than under control. It’s time to open up. And way faster than the current plans.

So to answer the actual question, yes I think lockdown served it’s purpose up until about 3 weeks back. And I’d still advise caution. But 3 more months is hugely excessive and detrimental to society.

nickkinneg

Just read there - that Oxford university who were the closest to a vaccine being developed has failed - all six rhesus monkeys contracted it - not sure what’ll happen to the people they trialed this on - this thing is one resilient ****ucker.

colly10

There are apps out there that calculate what 5/20km from your home looks like.
These apps calculate distance as the crow flies.
When they say you’re allowed to travel up to 5km, is that as the crow flies or is it defined anywhere?

Colibri

nickkinneg wrote: »

Just read there - that Oxford university who were the closest to a vaccine being developed has failed - all six rhesus monkeys contracted it - not sure what’ll happen to the people they trialed this on - this thing is one resilient ****ucker.

Have you got a link?

Nevermind just found it

Ginger n Lemon

nickkinneg wrote: »

Just read there - that Oxford university who were the closest to a vaccine being developed has failed - all six rhesus monkeys contracted it - not sure what’ll happen to the people they trialed this on - this thing is one resilient ****ucker.

Damn, you are right.

Btw doesnt mean covid is a resilient ****ucker, dont even know what you wanted to say there, but just that theres been no vaccine against human corona viruses. this is nothing new, this is last 2000 years + the BC years.

statesaver

nickkinneg wrote: »

Just read there - that Oxford university who were the closest to a vaccine being developed has failed - all six rhesus monkeys contracted it - not sure what’ll happen to the people they trialed this on - this thing is one resilient ****ucker.

ah, be grand sure, Bill Gates vaccine will work

SNNUS

colly10 wrote: »

There are apps out there that calculate what 5/20km from your home looks like.
These apps calculate distance as the crow flies.
When they say you’re allowed to travel up to 5km, is that as the crow flies or is it defined anywhere?

As the crow flies in a tailwind only.

Ginger n Lemon

statesaver wrote: »

ah, be grand sure, Bill Gates vaccine will work

Pass. When I read his interview response below, his vaccine will probably be even worse than Oxford's one

"Humankind has never had a more urgent task than creating broad immunity for coronavirus. Realistically, if we’re going to return to normal, we need to develop a safe, effective vaccine. We need to make billions of doses, we need to get them out to every part of the world, and we need all of this to happen as quickly as possible."

The "anti vaxxer" insults are coming. And all because i am slightly concerned about that in bold. That doesnt sound healthy or sane.

average_runner

Alot of groups out there tonight. Social distancing not happening. Reminds me of the first week of lockdown before the real one came.