Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

growleaves

is_that_so wrote: »

He's not saying anything terribly new at all at this stage. Yes, there is an awareness of the cure being worse than the disease and there has been since day 1. The curve flattening is almost a cliché it's been used so much. Our extended unwinding gives us plenty and to see how it goes for us and how it's going for other countries. Bear in mind it's now 13 working days to Phase 2!

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Of all restrictions right now the 5kms is daft

It is but psychologically it's over double what we had. It's also probably likely to have helped maintain the very good compliance levels here. That is what they are after IMO, minimising the number of longer journeys.

is_that_so

growleaves wrote: »

Hang in there!

hotmail.com

Krispy Kreme back open for drive thru tomorrow.

CruelSummer

Hurrache wrote: »

Because where I stand on the way forward from this point is utterly irrelevant to what you have said regarding the fact there was no need for such a lock down given the numbers we have.

I never said there was no need for a lockdown - I said they have new information out every day showing why we shouldn’t continue with the lockdown...Are you even reading my posts?

storker

facehugger99 wrote: »

Logic Fail alert.

Not really. Your message lacked the required infoirmation.

These weren't the only two options available.

Yes. Which is why I asked.

We could have implemented reasonable precautions, implemented social distancing where possible, stressed improved hand hygiene, facilitated work from home where possible, identified the vulnerable demographics and protected them, etc, etc.

Sounds reasonable, but it assumes people will comply.

Stormyteacup

is_that_so wrote: »

There are a whole lot of "Listen to me I'm a doctor" voices out there, regardless of their specialty. He resigned from the Irish Medical Council BTW not NPHET. What exactly are they going to ask him as he's a care home GP and that has now been addressed?

Yes you are correct he resigned from Irish Medical Council rather than NPHET.

But he’s hardly a ‘listen to me I’m a doctor’ type. He was appointed to the council initially by Simon Harris - he must hold him in esteem. He’s equally as qualified as many other doctors we hear from on in the media.

His twitter page is highly critical widely of RTÉ and the government, aside from the care home issue. He is particularly vocal on the issue of cancer screening being still paused - I’d think this at least could make him relevant to any balanced media discussion on this issue.

But you won’t hear from him in mainstream media for the masses.

MrDavid1976

There are some of us here who have been derided for highlighting the negative effects of the lockdown and questioning it on multiple grounds including other health services, metal health and the economy. We have been accused of being anti-vaxxers, the pro-economic brigade, and followers of Gemma O’Doherty.

Over the last 3/4 days, we are starting to see evidence of all these with CSO report on business yesterday, the study carried out by the Department of Business over the weekend, and now today on mental health https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cso-covid-19-has-hit-peoples-well-being-more-than-the-crash-with-women-affected-more-1000390.html

The CMO provides advice on public health. The Government needs to weigh this advice against other issues such as economy, mental health, the health service more generally, the education needs of our citizens etc. It is now beyond time that these other aspects are properly considered.

There is no point getting too hooked up on whether the initial lockdown was a good thing or a bad thing, but the decisions (including the inability to make decisions) made now as the risk has receded (and that is what the evidence says) will have massive implications for the next decade.

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

At the start I was very compliant with the travel restrictions(outside of work when required and what I was allowed to do).

Right until I saw ten families of Travellers were allowed to arrive in the country from one of the worst hit countries in Europe, go 50+ kms inland and set up an illegal encampment on government land. At the height of our lockdown when I and the rest of us were going through checkpoints being asked where we were going. Never mind the up and down testing, crap contact tracing, no quarantines etc. Sod that half arsed amateur hour ballsology. Since then I pretty much ignore it TBH and if needs be I'll ignore the 5Kms too. I still practice social distancing, haven't crossed the threshold of anywhere but shops since this kicked off, even wear masks when I do *gasp*, but wholly arbitrary distance limits? Bollocks.

Agree 100% about the Traveller "rules". If it's worth making a rule then it's worth making it for everybody, and to hell with the likes of Pavee point. Let's face it, if everyone else was subject to the same rules Travellers could hardly claim discrimination.

silverharp

hotmail.com wrote: »

Krispy Kreme back open for drive thru tomorrow.

reminded me of

https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1262442995296731139

is_that_so

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes you are correct he resigned from Irish Medical Council rather than NPHET.

But he’s hardly a ‘listen to me I’m a doctor’ type. He was appointed to the council initially by Simon Harris - he must hold him in esteem. He’s equally as qualified as many other doctors we hear from on in the media.

His twitter page is highly critical widely of RTÉ and the government, aside from the care home issue. He is particularly vocal on the issue of cancer screening being still paused - I’d think this at least could make him relevant to any balanced media discussion on this issue.

But you won’t hear from him in mainstream media for the masses.

My impression of him is that he is vocal whatever he's talking about. Incidentally, Gabriel Scally agrees with the pausing, as does pretty much anyone else asked about it. Restarting will be the next question.

road_high

Irish Aris wrote: »

In my home country Greece, as of yesterday travelling anywhere in the country is allowed.
I got an email from Aegean Airlines (the biggest airline company in Greece), that they will start domestic flights straight away. For international flights they mention: "We are getting ready to gradually restore international operations in the coming weeks and months. Initially we plan to restart operations with a limited schedule from Athens to Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva and Zurich. At the same time, we shall increase flights operating to Brussels, which is the only international destination that we didn't suspend. Soon, more destinations will be added".
in the coming weeks and months: the reality is that they don't really know exactly when they will be able to operate. I reckon demand will play a role. The cities mentioned are interesting: the plan is that tourism will operate in the summer and the Greek islands would be a popular destination for German tourists.

The smug sneering at Greece a few years ago in Ireland too- now leading the way in how to run a country and an economy. We really are the joke of Europe at this stage. Europeans are just so sensible and pragmatic. We are just spineless hypochndriacs.
Time business big and small laid it on the fcukin line to the government here.

Stormyteacup

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

snowgal

it is getting hugely frustrating to read about Travellers allowances day in and day out. Like everyone, I have stuck to the rules and kept distancing, havent seen people I shouldnt etc. I heard on the radio yesterday, a Councillor speaking out that he had publicly complained about the Travellers turning up at the funeral last week. He was threatened by a Traveller a few days later who told him they are going to come to house and murder him. This is really bad form from the Gaurds and Government.....

road_high

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

Ah classic Tony- arse coverer in chief. Seems to be his main speciality.

Stormyteacup

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

I believe the first outbreak in a nursing home was 16 days after visitors were restricted

is_that_so

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

It must have been the day after he said the visiting restriction wasn't consistent with their advice! First case came about 2 weeks after the first community case, which was about 1 March.

iamwhoiam

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

So why did he wait for the first case to be reported ? It was obvious from Italys tragedy that it was going to ravage the care homes . Far too late when its already in the door

KrustyUCC

Breezin wrote: »

Ulster no longer saying No just for the sake of it. Unrestricted travel until they cross the border to lockdown land and its daft 5k rule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTslU3gdL1E

So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track

road_high

KrustyUCC wrote: »

So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track

Actually think Simon Harris has some physhotic tendancies. Listening to the crap he was coming out with this morning. This isn't normal human empathy or behaviour.

MadYaker

Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?

Hurrache

CruelSummer wrote: »

All of the models were completely wrong to date.
.........
The figures don’t lie, the vast majority of people in Ireland are not sick with Covid 19.

CruelSummer wrote: »

I never said there was no need for a lockdown - I said they have new information out every day showing why we shouldn’t continue with the lockdown...Are you even reading my posts?

"All the models were completely wrong to date". The reasoning and explanation was pointed out to you by other posters.

As a world renowned man once said, it's the implication.

road_high

MadYaker wrote: »

Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?

Well it'll be a first. All licking his hole to date anyhow so would take a major change. Unless Lord Leo sees the wind blowing another way publicly. So many stupid scared whitless idiots out there though.

is_that_so

road_high wrote: »

Well it'll be a first. All licking his hole to date anyhow so would take a major change. Unless Lord Leo sees the wind blowing another way publicly. So many stupid scared whitless idiots out there though.

We will probably be looking at a new government by the time Phase 2 comes along, definitely by Phase 3.

facehugger99

Stormyteacup wrote: »

13:15
Dr Tony Holohan told the Dáil's Covid-19 Committee that Ireland was the fastest country to introduce restrictions to visitors in nursing homes following notification of the first case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

Is this true - I suppose it could be technically true.

Does anyone know the date the first case in a nursing home was reported.

Some spin job anyway.

A slimy, odious, spinning bureaucrat that would gladly wreck the economy for millions in order to protect his own reputation.

You can be sure the likes of him, Varadkar and Harris are well protected by their cushy salaries and pensions and will not shoulder any of the oncoming economic devastation that rest of us will face.

frillyleaf

They won’t be able to keep people in lockdown until 20th July. It’s too drawn out and would take too much resources to police. They’ve cut Garda overtime as far as I’m aware. I suspect some of the phase 3 will be moved into phase 2

road_high

is_that_so wrote: »

We will probably be looking at a new government by the time Phase 2 comes along, definitely by Phase 3.

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

is_that_so

road_high wrote: »

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

Not now and I can see them making it work but he does reserve the right and is not really fazed by the possibility of a new election.

Goldengirl

SusieBlue wrote: »

Ah so your blind defence and faith in the HSE makes sense now, you’re clearly another one who thinks working in the medical profession means your opinion is superior and of more value around here.
If anything it shows how you cannot be relied upon because you are still insisting that urgent healthcare is available as normal, despite anecdotal evidence here and verified evidence in the media saying that it isn’t and that many patients have been left in awful situations.
Yet you still refuse to even acknowledge it.

I’m not against taking sensible precautions such as social distancing & increased hand washing but I’m not in favour of keeping restrictions at the expense of anyone’s health. I guess those people don’t matter to you.

That attachment shows how few new cases we have nationwide, the vast majority (I think over 19k?) cases are now recovered and are not active cases. We had two deaths this weekend and six counties reported no new cases.
Dublin has the best resources & the most facilities in the whole country so what you’re saying just isn’t making sense.
And regardless, even if Dublin is in a worse situation, that still isn’t justification for locking down the rest of the country.

I have absolutely no faith in anything you post .
I have never 'refused to acknowledge ' as you put it that health care has been severely impacted.
It is not the fault of health service that we have a pandemic !

And to say that a healthcare worker doesn't care about lack or delays in service is ridiculous and shows what little regard you have for people working in the sector.

Fact is plans are in place to start non urgent care over the next week or two . And urgent care has been ongoing for the sickest and those who do attend for care , as I and other posters have also attested to. The fact that you choose not to believe those working in the service , over and over again, says more about you than me .

Of course Covid is going to have a major impact but we all knew this , and most reasonable people while not happy about it , understand .
I believe because your case was not deemed urgent enough you are prejudiced against the entire service.
There are many people who have never worked in a hospital who appreciate the difficulties to normal healthcare that this virus in the community represents and nobody wants to attend hospital for non elective care and end up with Covid 19.
Your ignorance is obvious when you try to say that the restrictions have caused the delays or difficulties in service, while ignoring the obvious difficulties for everyone trying to work through this pandemic.

So you want to separate Dublin from the rest of the country ? Maybe that would have been another decision that NPHET could have taken . But they didn't .

And you still think that reducing numbers or recovered patients means empty beds in hospitals ? This is not true , many patients stay at least 2 weeks in hospital being treated and some are weeks due to complications of this very nasty illness. The amount of care that the remaining patients need is exacerbated by the stringent infection control measures required and extra staff are needed to ensure all is done safely.
Nevertheless numbers have been reducing to a level that non Covid patients are now being admitted.

The only mismanagement , which I have said before , is the HSE taking over private hospitals and not putting them to good use , lack of PPe earlier in the crisis, and not addressing Nursing Homes and Residential Care Homes at an early stage . Testing was very ineffective slow to start with and a lot of positive cases were missed as a result . All of these issues have been addressed apart from the private hospitals which is next I hope. Far from being a blanket supporter I have spoken about these failings here and on the other Coronavirus threads since the start.
Some of the easing of restrictions so far don't appear to have been thought through eg public transport , wearing of masks .

You keep saying your business is affected by the restrictions , and I hope you get to open up soon , but it will be more adversely affected if we have to shutdown again because we weren't careful enough in easing this time and keeping control of this in the future . It's not all down to the government and HSE to protect us .

And so we will agree to disagree , as I don't believe your rhetoric and vice versa.

Ginger n Lemon

road_high wrote: »

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

FG were lucky to come in 3rd. Should there be another election greens will overtake them.

Leo will go down as the worst leader state had in a long time.

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.