Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

road_high wrote: »

Varadkar is clearly gunning for another election. Everything he does is aimed at that. He wants to be seen as the amazing Leader that saved Ireland from Covid 19.

FG were lucky to come in 3rd. Should there be another election greens will overtake them.

Leo will go down as the worst leader state had in a long time.

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

road_high

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

FG were lucky to come in 3rd. Should there be another election greens will overtake them.

Leo will go down as the worst leader state had in a long time.

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

Honestly don’t think that will happen. The greens are finished and FG have had all the limelight. The lockdown etc is a shambles but the fact is most people agree with it and the €350 had kept most sweet. It is idiotic but hopefully the next phases will move quicker now with pressure. The media are just as culpable too they’ve been atrocious

Wibbs

road_high wrote: »

Ah classic Tony- arse coverer in chief. Seems to be his main speciality.

Tony is the usual barely competent chancer we wheel into power. He's not alone in that either.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

So in Donegal you can't travel more than 5kms until June 8th and then more than 20kms up until July 20th

In Northern Ireland you can go where you like the same as in England

Other countries opening up internal and external travel well before us

Our plan is painfully slow and depriving us of meeting up with friends, family and partners legally for another 9 weeks and that's if the plan keeps on track

Then fcuk them and ignore it. If you have family and friends and keep your distance and don't cross their thresholds then meet them.

road_high wrote: »

The smug sneering at Greece a few years ago in Ireland too- now leading the way in how to run a country and an economy. We really are the joke of Europe at this stage. Europeans are just so sensible and pragmatic. We are just spineless hypochndriacs.
Time business big and small laid it on the fcukin line to the government here.

I dunno about Europeans being so sensible. Spain and Italy and France were very badly hit. Greece did it right. They instigated a much more enforced and severe lockdown, actually got police on the streets. No way in hell could a bunch of Travellers have driven from Athens 50 k inland to set up their sh1tshow on a Greek army base. They even quarantined whole towns and villages and they reacted quickly.

I got a fair bit of static in this forum for my criticism of our half useless leaders and guess who looks more right than the usual suburban forelock tuggers to authority. Other than the lockdown(though late enough), the emergency covid payment and making sure we had the capacity in hospitals if we had an Italy on our hands(they got that 100%, though they need to dial back that now) they got almost nothing else right. Testing has been a farce overall. Contact tracing minimal to the point of negligence. Movement restrictions across the board, pointless. QV travellers. The only health checks at our ports have been "here's a leaflet"(full of typos). By the time they decided masks indoors in public might be a plan it's "advisory" so about as much use as tits on a bull. Their "expert" was telling the Irish people asymptomatic spread was of little or no risk, over a month after it was shown to be(yet the claim to be following the WHO and ECDC). They let the care homes down massively, though hardly a shock and they have blood on their hands there. And we have 1500 plus dead. The aforementioned Greece with over ten million people, multiple borders, a stones throw from Italy and a massive refugee crisis? 168 dead. One hundred and sixty eight.

And now they don't even know how to take us back out of this. They have "de Plaaan" and they're sticking to it. Because god forbid they make any independent decision(vanishingly rarely) they will hang onto it for dear life out of shock that they made a decision in the first place. And forget RTE and Irish "journalism" who won't take them to task and ask hard questions, of which there are many.

So maybe it's time for the rest of us to take something of a leaf out of the Travellers book? IE ignore the fools. Keep the responsible social distancing handwashing(god forbid a mask or too), but ignore the rest of their guff. They've proven they couldn't enforce jack and relied on us to go along, so fcuk them at this stage.

funnydoggy

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1139223/

Chief Medical Officer, Dr Tony Holohan has told the committee that there is no certainty that Ireland can keep the virus suppressed."

FishOnABike

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You cant eradicate a virus. It mutates, changes it complexity. This is very embaressing to hear, hes really not doing DCU any favours.

Of course you can. Given the right conditions it will become extinct, just like many species before it.

Goldengirl

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

What is your point?

Is your point that the virus is so dangerous that we need to lock down for the next months? Or is this blind faith that the current easing is proportionate even if the numbers stay low?

You have signalled that you have a medical background (?) and have seen the effects. Were you in iCU and the wards?

At what stage do we say to people with other conditions or who may not even know about those conditions, that their health is less valuable than someone potentially getting Covid? Project fear has made many people petrified. They are afraid if they go into hospital they will catch it and infect their families.

Read my last post in answer to this . I am tired of responding to the same sensationalist posts .

Stark

MadYaker wrote: »

Pressure mounting to speed up the easing of restrictions. Maybe they'll sideline tony?

Where have you heard that?

Wibbs

funnydoggy wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1139223/

The guy is a mediocre incompetent. He's had enough scandals attached to him. The HSE is a mess and has been for years. Covid19 has just brought this into sharp focus. Though as usual eff all will change and all the talking heads in management will keep getting their cushy public purse pensions.

FishOnABike wrote: »

Of course you can. Given the right conditions it will become extinct, just like many species before it.

Yeah oul Ginger seems not to have heard of Smallpox. Polio is not far off gone, tetanus is a rarity and few kids in the western world go through the childhood illnesses that were accepted when I was a kid, and I'm not that old.

GeorgeBailey

This thread should be renamed to something like "Restrictions need to be lifted asap" just to give people an idea of what they're coming into when they click on it.

Goldengirl

gizmo23 wrote: »

It's a figure pulled straight from the sky. 5,000 people have come off the covid payment this week according to Ingrid miley

With just under 800,000 currently totally dependent on the state.

While a total of 1,263,000 are totally or partially ( TWSS) on the state

The irony of someone saying another person isn't trust worthy and then claims the above... shouldn't be lost on people

Pick one line ...and throw away everything else?

Not my claim.
It is estimated that will be the case by the end of this week..Irish Building Magazine , Tuesday May 19th.

Goldengirl

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

It is an easy place for Tony and co to be in as they will never be accountable for their actions.

They will say that they saved lives with their actions (any mistakes such as in nursing homes will be at the door of the HSE).

They will make the point in hindsight that they are asked to advise and Government makes the decisions (perhaps on paper).

They will distance themselves from the economic arguments (we saved lives).

They will point to utterances that the hospitals were open for other procedures (the reality is different).

So what are the other (potential or real?) effects of this continued lockdown?

- the lack of childcare means the health service will have a far lower capacity.
- all other capacity is focused on Covid
- this means that people with existing treatments are even more vulnerable. Lives will be lost.
- project fear means people are afraid to go into hospital. Lives will be lost
- screening programmes have been delayed or severely curtailed. Lives will be lost
- mental health cases are increasing (no surprise). Lives will be lost.
- domestic abuse is on the rise. Lives will be lost.
- alcohol consumption is up 25%. Lives will be lost.
- 1.26 million people are on State income supports.
- many businesses will never reopen.
- taxes will be increased to pay for the higher numbers requiring State supports.
- benefits including allowances will need to be reduced.
- recruitment in the public service will be stalled and efforts will be made to slim it down through retirements etc.
- health spending will need to be reduced - even longer waiting lists - lives will be lost.
- public transport capacity is massively reduced so people without private transport will not be able to report to work so will be let go.
- if schools and crèches do not reopen in September then parents may be forced to move to part-time work or one parent will need to stop working.
- the new reality will disproportionately hit women.

We do not have a Government with a mandate or who are accountable to parliament yet some of the biggest decisions any Irish Government has ever faced are being made.

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !
We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

na1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

PS Ireland is one of very few countries that shut down construction. And the only country to impose 5km 20km etc. Idiotic would be an understatement.

I wonder if Leo's or any TD-s job is considered an essential?
Or can we lock them withing 5 km of their homes?

FishOnABike

MattS1 wrote: »

What will happen when the restaurants reopen and people try to use them as bars, ordering one course and a rake of drinks?

They'll end up with a severe hole in their pocket!

Whether it's an excuse for a meal in a restaurant to get a few drinks or a pub with social distancing it won't make much difference. Reservations only, table service only, limited numbers per table, limited number of tables, social distancing between tables.

Meehhhhh, for what it's worth I'd prefer to relax with a few drinks and company at home with a takeaway or home made meal, not have to worry about getting home and have a romantic night in, than bother using a restaurant as an excuse for a few drinks.

Goldengirl

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think its important kids are thought real life values, like Tir na nÓg only exist in books and unfortunately we dont live forever, which some people have lost sight of since Covid 1st appeared

Well since my kids are all working in essential services Fintan, throughout this , I think they know all about real life values and a lot more besides.
In fact I am proud of them and their friends the mature way they have accepted this restriction on their social life, especially as it is so important to them.
But far from being brought up with fairy stories and the like, they were brought up to think of others and to be honest and compassionate .
That's what's needed here .

MrDavid1976

Goldengirl wrote: »

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !
We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

Thanks. “All this is true” is a massive step in the right direction in persuading people that other factors indeed have relevance. There are risks and choices and what I have been saying is that at this point of time (and I agreed with the lockdown) the risks of moving too slowly to reverse this will have a higher cost.

I am not looking back, rather looking forward. I think aspects of the plan are good but it was not designed by anyone who understands the interlinkages of the economy.

There will be risks in these choices but crèches, schools and public transport are key aspects of stimulating the recovery.

Why is WHO and Denmark saying that 1 metre is enough if other safeguards are in place yet we are fixated on two metres. That would be a massive enabler to get the country moving again.

the kelt

Goldengirl wrote: »

Well since my kids are all working in essential services Fintan, throughout this , I think they know all about real life values and a lot more besides.
In fact I am proud of them and their friends the mature way they have accepted this restriction on their social life, especially as it is so important to them.
But far from being brought up with fairy stories and the like, they were brought up to think of others and to be honest and compassionate .
That's what's needed here .

What make you think someone who believes the easing of restrictions is far too slow here compared to other countries lacks compassion?

KrustyUCC

Wibbs wrote: »

Then fcuk them and ignore it. If you have family and friends and keep your distance and don't cross their thresholds then meet them.

I think more and more will start doing this just won't be legal

They won't get 9 weeks more compliance out of people in relation to travel restrictions when almost every other country is opening up

Worse that can happen is the guards turn you back

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1262650283383050241?s=19

Make of this what you will

Agree. Breast cancer cells are picked up on mammograms before patients feel a lump in their breast

iamwhoiam

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Thanks. “All this is true” is a massive step in the right direction in persuading people that other factors indeed have relevance. There are risks and choices and what I have been saying is that at this point of time (and I agreed with the lockdown) the risks of moving too slowly to reverse this will have a higher cost.

I am not looking back, rather looking forward. I think aspects of the plan are good but it was not designed by anyone who understands the interlinkages of the economy.

There will be risks in these choices but crèches, schools and public transport are key aspects of stimulating the recovery.

Why is WHO and Denmark saying that 1 metre is enough if other safeguards are in place yet we are fixated on two metres. That would be a massive enabler to get the country moving again.

Dont you worry , when it suits the economy and the buses and LUAS spaces then we too will be down to one metre . It will then be ok as according to whoever says the right thing at the time

Goldengirl

ednwireland wrote: »

it is a total disgrace, heard about someone who was diagnosed with cance rtwo months ago and hasnt had any contact since forem the HSE, but then the hse seem good at ignoring cancer

Has that person not rung their GP? Tell them to ring today and tomorrow and the next day until they get an answer or a consultation.
Noone in the health service ignoring cancer, or should be.

Wibbs

Goldengirl wrote: »

All this is true but you are not offering any solutions.
We are facing this because we had no choice , do you not see this?
All the sxxxe from people coming out of the woodwork once the virus has been suppressed by locking down about how we could have done it another way , is just that , total sxxxe !

I hate to break it to you, but many of the "people coming out of the woodwork" as you term them have been suggesting what we should have done from many months back and a goodly number were suggesting protocols that other nations have followed, nations that have ten times or more fewer dead people in graves compared to us.

Have a look at this statistic.

As things stand we're in the top ten. Now that will change over time as true numbers come in, but we're way off doing great. Never mind that out of that lot above we have the lowest population density and more people living in houses. A fact that should have had us in much better stead.

We have a caretaker government and haven't seen much from the others except the odd point , so nobody really jumping up to take responsibility from them , are they?

Nope, and it has long been my contention that pretty much none of our political class regardless of background would have made much of a difference. We as a people seem to favour the blindingly mediocre. The HSE is well the HSE and long unfit for purpose at management level(the current minister has said this) so no change there. And no government of any party has had the balls to fix that in decades.

Conte..

Down the local supermarket nobody wearing.masks thankfully

Everyone keeping.distsnce.and.communicating like humans

Wibbs

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Dont you worry , when it suits the economy and the buses and LUAS spaces then we too will be down to one metre . It will then be ok as according to whoever says the right thing at the time

I've found in the last week or so two metres in shops anyway is a moving target.

Wibbs

Conte.. wrote: »

Down the local supermarket nobody wearing.masks thankfully

Everyone keeping.distsnce.and.communicating like humans

So something that directly protects from respiratory illness in community settings is bad now? And apparently not human. How many were wearing gloves which increase risk? That's probably OK. Not some weird Asian fetish thing. This is the level of "thought" we're dealing with and again the government has promoted it.

stephenjmcd

Wibbs wrote: »

I've found in the last week or so two metres in shops anyway is a moving target.

Same experience here. Outside in the queue its generally grand. Inside free for all.

I honestly dont see how people expect social distancing to be a thing months down the line, it may well be "policy" but in public it's not being adhered to. Images of dublin buses yesterday with more passengers on them than the social distance limits, and it was only day 1

tobefrank321

growleaves wrote: »

I would like to see which countries did protect nursing homes effectively, and see that comparison.

Ireland, Sweden, UK, Spain, NYC (yeah I know its not a country) and others failed.

I remember seeing stats for the US although you can never be sure how reliable some of these stats are.

The deaths in some states were as high as 90% related to nursing homes (Connecticut), the average was around 50% for most states, but for New York, surprisingly enough low.

Edit - ok it seems like there's delays in reporting nursing home deaths in New York.

https://time.com/5832141/new-york-nursing-home-death-toll/

New York made the same stupid mistake that many countries did, sending covid 19 infected patients from hospitals to nursing homes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sent-recovering-coronavirus-patients-to-nursing-homes-it-was-a-fatal-error-11589470773

And Canada is reporting 80% of their deaths are from nursing homes.

Ginger n Lemon

road_high wrote: »

Honestly don’t think that will happen. The greens are finished and FG have had all the limelight. The lockdown etc is a shambles but the fact is most people agree with it and the €350 had kept most sweet. It is idiotic but hopefully the next phases will move quicker now with pressure. The media are just as culpable too they’ve been atrocious

Its a long term prediction. Jan 2021 onwards. The agony from increase in taxes and reduction in public spending will quickly eliminate any of the wishful euphoria of saving lives.

Especially when cancer deaths start to spike. We are at the very start of FG downfall, from here on it only gets worse as more and more actual data about damage (financial and non covid health) caused is released.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You cant eradicate a virus. It mutates, changes it complexity. This is very embaressing to hear, hes really not doing DCU any favours.

Your anti-vaxxer/Gemma O'D mask is slipping.


Ginger n Lemon: A selection of quotes regarding vaccines/ Gemma O'D:

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Bob, they tried. But Garda closed Pheonix park.

Garda will shut down any form of public gatherings, there were 6 girls protesting against Debenhams on Henry street, easily 3 meters apart from each other, still told to get the hell out by our law enforcement."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Hospitals have empty beds because this disease is not that more severe than flu. There are videos of nurses dancing in empty hospitals on tiktok, youtube and other platforms, making a mockery of people like you, and me who clap for HSE every now and then."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Do you even know that you cant sue a vaccine company? You sue the government when things go bad with the vaccine. Do you want to guess why that is?

I'd completely disregard vaccine conversation anyways, it needs to be properly tested for many years before being released to the public. Would you inject something into your body when it has been in development for 9 months?"

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"There are plenty of corona viruses around. Been around for thousands of years. No vaccine exist for a single one.

Look it up. But dont fear, mortality rate is 0.2-0.5% so we shouldnt get wiped out without a vaccine."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Gemma is challenging lockdown restrictions in court. Lockdown restrictions imposed are to A) slow down the spread of the disease & not to overwhelm 100 ICU beds and wait out for a vaccine.

Leo has said this on camera, good few times. I am merely pointing out that this is not feasible and like I've mentioned earlier, Gemma as unlikable as she is - its a good thing someone is challenging these scientifically unproven lockdown measures."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Here, I only wish the best for people on these forums, please do not under any circumstance consider any vaccines from China. Regardless which side of lockdown you are on."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"Just heard yesterday - there hasnt been a single vaccine developed for any of human corona viruses in our history.

Maintain social distancing.

Wash hands.

Open up."

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

"A) Pharma companies do not profit if you have good health. There is an instant conflict of interest arising, they ll make billions if a harmful vaccine is distributed and people need follow up care (follow up care is the big buck)

WHO and other "world health agencies" are corrupt, are being led by god knows who, Tedros person in WHO has covered up malaria outbreak in Ethiopia 3 times... advised not to close travel from China in January. The list is endless.

C) Vaccines are harmful. They tend to be more harmful than the disease they are suppose to prevent. It is criminal to be pushing vaccine agenda without any serious trial period (of 5 - 10 years). It would be a disaster to develop a vaccine in 9 months, inject it into everyone and see people have their life expectancy cut in half and die at 40 years of age."

I just feel sorry for the people you duped along the way.

Conte..

Wibbs wrote: »

So something that directly protects from respiratory illness in community settings is bad now? And apparently not human. How many were wearing gloves which increase risk? That's probably OK. Not some weird Asian fetish thing. This is the level of "thought" we're dealing with and again the government has promoted it.

How long do you think people should go around wearing masks

FintanMcluskey

Goldengirl wrote: »

Well since my kids are all working in essential services Fintan, throughout this , I think they know all about real life values and a lot more besides.
In fact I am proud of them and their friends the mature way they have accepted this restriction on their social life, especially as it is so important to them.
But far from being brought up with fairy stories and the like, they were brought up to think of others and to be honest and compassionate .
That's what's needed here .

Well they aren't exactly kids at the present time so.

They are adults who never had this upheaval during their formative years.

Irish kids are on course to be a great experiment in mass long term school absenteeism.