Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

ceadaoin.

Would it not be easier and more cost effective just to test all arrivals at the airport? Or maybe those from high risk areas. 2 week quarantine "indefinitely" will completely kill the tourism industry

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Tony H recommends 14 day quarantine indefinitely into d future for all airport arrivals. 100% of arrivals.

Later says testing results 3% positive.

Seems legit.

?

There'll be some agreement made amongst the EU member states and Tony will be told where to go.

Ginger n Lemon

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Would it not be easier and more cost effective just to test all arrivals at the airport? Or maybe those from high risk areas. 2 week quarantine "indefinitely" will completely kill the tourism industry

Agreed. Plus temperature checks.

Quatantine 100% of arrivals is half as$ lazy approach that will kill tourism. 265,000 employed in d sector

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Would it not be easier and more cost effective just to test all arrivals at the airport? Or maybe those from high risk areas. 2 week quarantine "indefinitely" will completely kill the tourism industry

To be effective you would need to test on arrival and again 4 to 5 days later, so would need to quarantine in the interim to get the same effect as 14 day quarantine for all. I would imagine in time you well get a green, orange and red arrival system - arrival from green area - asked to self report symptoms or contacts, possibly temp check, orange - possibly a test or self quarantine, enhanced questionnaire and reporting of location, Red - mandatory 14 day quarantine

vid36

Tourism is dead for 2020 anyway and many other countries have introduced 14 days period

CruelSummer

Glad to see questions raised re why are we extending the special Gardaí powers and 14 day quarantine period

https://www.thejournal.ie/iccl-emergency-garda-powers-simon-harris-5098351-May2020/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/human-rights-group-two-week-quarantine-and-garda-powers-raise-issues-amid-pandemic-1000449.html

However Simon Harris has extended the Gardaí's special powers...direct quotes...:

"I am pleased that we have gotten to this point because of the incredible efforts of the Irish people in suppressing this virus.

"I'm nervous because the virus hasn't gone away, there still isn't a vaccine, there is still people in this country getting sick and there is still people dying every day.

"So we all need to approach the next few weeks showing that collective sense of cop on."

Deeper Blue

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Tony H recommends 14 day quarantine indefinitely into d future for all airport arrivals. 100% of arrivals.

Later says testing results 3% positive.

Seems legit.

?

This absolutely needs to happen and I hope it does

ceadaoin.

CruelSummer wrote: »

Glad to see questions raised re why are we extending the special Gardaí powers and 14 day quarantine period

https://www.thejournal.ie/iccl-emergency-garda-powers-simon-harris-5098351-May2020/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/human-rights-group-two-week-quarantine-and-garda-powers-raise-issues-amid-pandemic-1000449.html

However Simon Harris has extended the Gardaí's special powers...direct quotes...:

"I am pleased that we have gotten to this point because of the incredible efforts of the Irish people in suppressing this virus.

"I'm nervous because the virus hasn't gone away, there still isn't a vaccine, there is still people in this country getting sick and there is still people dying every day.

"So we all need to approach the next few weeks showing that collective sense of cop on."

So the Irish people have done their bit and got the r0 way down to the point that community spread is pretty much non existant. This was so the HSE didn't get overwhelmed. So my question is, what have the HSE done to prepare and increase capacity so that people can start to return to normality a bit? Other countries set up field hospitals, ordered extra supplies of ventilators etc, set up extra icu beds. Anything like that in ireland? I don't live there right now so maybe I missed it. However, according to a poster on here they haven't even ordered enough masks for their staff. So they expect the public to sit at home losing jobs and money indefinitely while they do nothing or what?

is_that_so

CruelSummer wrote: »

Glad to see questions raised re why are we extending the special Gardaí powers and 14 day quarantine period

https://www.thejournal.ie/iccl-emergency-garda-powers-simon-harris-5098351-May2020/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/human-rights-group-two-week-quarantine-and-garda-powers-raise-issues-amid-pandemic-1000449.html

However Simon Harris has extended the Gardaí's special powers...direct quotes...:

"I am pleased that we have gotten to this point because of the incredible efforts of the Irish people in suppressing this virus.

"I'm nervous because the virus hasn't gone away, there still isn't a vaccine, there is still people in this country getting sick and there is still people dying every day.

"So we all need to approach the next few weeks showing that collective sense of cop on."

The 14 days is self-isolation not enforced quarantine. The only mandatory part will be completing the form. Are Gardai abusing these special powers? Spitters and coughers don't count at all.

stephenjmcd

vid36 wrote: »

Tourism is dead for 2020 anyway and many other countries have introduced 14 days period

Which in europe are being phased out over the next month. Italy, Spain, Germany all opening up over June and no 14 day period when they do

Juwwi

Australia had 1 new death today bringing their total to 100 deaths ,, only 8 new cases today .

They closed off airports to foreign tourists very early ,, have very good and quick testing with contact tracing

It's the only way be can start to get back to normal imo is if we follow what they did now we have the number of active cases low .

growleaves

Goldengirl wrote: »

Source?
American news is very much subjective .
Also the states that had lockdown are very much more densely populated .

It's all there in the article, which links to Business Insider as the source for lockdown info on states.

The issue of population density is also addressed within the article.

is_that_so

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So the Irish people have done their bit and got the r0 way down to the point that community spread is pretty much non existant. This was so the HSE didn't get overwhelmed. So my question is, what have the HSE done to prepare and increase capacity so that people can start to return to normality a bit? Other countries set up field hospitals, ordered extra supplies of ventilators etc, set up extra icu beds. Anything like that in ireland? I don't live there right now so maybe I missed it. However, according to a poster on here they haven't even ordered enough masks for their staff. So they expect the public to sit at home losing jobs and money indefinitely while they do nothing or what?

There is the equivalent of a field hospital which I think got to about 1/3 full. We expanded ICU and got ventilators. The PPE is one of those things that has been at the whims of supply chains and finding stock. We also currently "own" the private hospitals, which are supposed to be taking some of the public procedures. You'd expect conversations and plans to emerge in the next number of weeks on how to restart things.

vid36

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Which in europe are being phased out over the next month. Italy, Spain, Germany all opening up over June and no 14 day period when they do

France are introducing a 14 period from today and the UK is also introducing one.
No plans to lift travel restriction in Austria or in many parts of Eastern Europe.

Kermit.de.frog

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Which in europe are being phased out over the next month. Italy, Spain, Germany all opening up over June and no 14 day period when they do

Of course Italy and Spain have less issue. They are riddled anyway!

Slightly different consideration for countries with more control in relation to importing disease.

Breezin

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course Italy and Spain have less issue. They are riddled anyway!

Slightly different consideration for countries with more control in relation to importing disease.

And round and round the circular logic tree we go.

LessOutragePlz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course Italy and Spain have less issue. They are riddled anyway!

Slightly different consideration for countries with more control in relation to importing disease.

Out of curiosity what do you suggest we do?

Stick rigidly to the phased easing of restrictions that has been laid out in the current plan?

Even if confirmed cases and deaths continue to drop?

stephenjmcd

vid36 wrote: »

France are introducing a 14 period from today and the UK is also introducing one.
No plans to lift travel restriction in Austria or in many parts of Eastern Europe.

France- voluntary quarantine the exact same as we have here.

The UK let's not go there, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and theres been no detail since Boris did his Sunday announcement a week ago.

Austria - starting to reopen borders without need for quarantine for certain countries at the moment. For others take a test at the airport and you dont have to do the quarantine.

It's all readily available online.

Kermit.de.frog

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do you suggest we do?

Stick rigidly to the phased easing of restrictions that has been laid out in the current plan?

Even if confirmed cases and deaths continue to drop?

We need to stick to the plan.

If we don't then resurgence will be quick and measures reintroduced. As I said elsewhere the square root of nothing has changed since February. If you open too much too quick you get in to trouble.

Until there is a vaccine we are in for intermittent restrictions.

How widespread those restrictions need to be depends on people's behaviour ultimately because measures will be reactionary by nature.

Goldengirl

Wibbs wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but many of the "people coming out of the woodwork" as you term them have been suggesting what we should have done from many months back and a goodly number were suggesting protocols that other nations have followed, nations that have ten times or more fewer dead people in graves compared to us.

Have a look at this statistic.

As things stand we're in the top ten. Now that will change over time as true numbers come in, but we're way off doing great. Never mind that out of that lot above we have the lowest population density and more people living in houses. A fact that should have had us in much better stead.




Nope, and it has long been my contention that pretty much none of our political class regardless of background would have made much of a difference. We as a people seem to favour the blindingly mediocre. The HSE is well the HSE and long unfit for purpose at management level(the current minister has said this) so no change there. And no government of any party has had the balls to fix that in decades.

I don't disagree with your points on the HSE or government. Or that we have had a lot of deaths.
But there are so many reasons why those numbers are different from area density of population, culture, and whether they are testing or reporting accurately, and they certainly aren't finished with yet eg . US .
Indeed some countries are still not reporting deaths outside of hospitals, while others are not reporting deaths with underlying conditions , even if the overwhelming cause of death was pneumonia due to Covid.
Some countries can't be trusted to even report accurately .

If you take the fact that nearly 49 to 50 % of our cases are in Dublin, density plays a big part.
A lot of thinking that far from easing faster, Dublin should be slower than the rest of the country. And maybe other parts of the country shouldn't have been as restricted given their numbers.

Also that areas of resurgence should be shutdown like Italy did with parts of Northern Italy.

Travel was a major contributor in the start . If we had shutdown at the airports and ports and quarantined properly for 14 days , our initial phase pre lockdown might have been sufficient.

ZX7R

vid36 wrote: »

France are introducing a 14 period from today and the UK is also introducing one.
No plans to lift travel restriction in Austria or in many parts of Eastern Europe.

The French 14 day quarantine is only for French nationals and residence retiring from countries outside of the EU.
EU members don't have to quarantine
The British 14 day quarantine , Irish and french to be exempt.
Most of eastern European countries plan on opening travel with no quarantine for fellow EU county's from June.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We need to stick to the plan.

We are.

If we don't then resurgence will be quick and measures reintroduced. As I said elsewhere the square root of nothing has changed since February. If you open too much too quick you get in to trouble.

Until there is a vaccine we are in for intermittent restrictions.

How widespread those restrictions need to be depends on people's behaviour ultimately because measures will be reactionary by nature.

No guarantee there will ever be a vaccine. Could well be a case of us achieveing herd immunity quicker while stlll havig lockdowns.

People's patience and tolerance will decide the future ultimately.

Goldengirl

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well they aren't exactly kids at the present time so.

They are adults who never had this upheaval during their formative years.

Irish kids are on course to be a great experiment in mass long term ] quote


Children are more resilient than you give them credit for, and they have online learning down to an art.

It's more the parents I feel sorry for!
Need to get childcare back running somehow or noone is going anywhere.

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

Your anti-vaxxer/Gemma O'D mask is slipping.


Ginger n Lemon: A selection of quotes regarding vaccines/ Gemma O'D:


I just feel sorry for the people you duped along the way.

Threadbanned

Goldengirl

road_high wrote: »

Thousands more jobs at risk at the Airport. All these job losses piling pressure on our welfare system. Also our health service though medical cards. The negative spin offs are immeasurable from this

...pandemic .

marno21

Goldengirl wrote: »

No evidence any such thing as herd immunity. From the now discredited Vallance in UK.

Herd immunity is the only way out of this mess. Be it through vaccination or a sufficient amount of people contracting the virus and gaining immunity that way.

There have been at least 5 million infections worldwide and a large multiple of this would appear to have antibodies based on seroprevalence studies conducted to date. There has been no evidence yet to prove otherwise which is encouraging.

No country has achieved herd immunity to date, which requires (R0-1/R0) of the population to be infected. However, hard hit areas like NY have shown immunity levels of ~20%. This has a lag also due to the delay in the body producing antibodies and the lag that the study takes to complete. 20% does not provide sufficient population immunity to stop the virus but it does reduce the number of viable hosts that the virus can infect. The higher the percentage with antibodies, the more difficulty the virus has in finding hosts to infect, so the more with antibodies, the less likely the virus will spread as fast. At the start of this pandemic, it spread like wildfire due to 0% of the population having SARS-CoV-2 antibodies (the effect of other coronavirus antibodies being negated here).

Goldengirl

marno21 wrote: »

Herd immunity is the only way out of this mess. Be it through vaccination or a sufficient amount of people contracting the virus and gaining immunity that way.

There have been at least 5 million infections worldwide and a large multiple of this would appear to have antibodies based on seroprevalence studies conducted to date. There has been no evidence yet to prove otherwise which is encouraging.

No country has achieved herd immunity to date, which requires (R0-1/R0) of the population to be infected. However, hard hit areas like NY have shown immunity levels of ~20%. This has a lag also due to the delay in the body producing antibodies and the lag that the study takes to complete. 20% does not provide sufficient population immunity to stop the virus but it does reduce the number of viable hosts that the virus can infect. The higher the percentage with antibodies, the more difficulty the virus has in finding hosts to infect, so the more with antibodies, the less likely the virus will spread as fast. At the start of this pandemic, it spread like wildfire due to 0% of the population having SARS-CoV-2 antibodies (the effect of other coronavirus antibodies being negated here).

I read that research , too Mamo.
It does say also that testing at I intervals later the antibody levels in those that produce them fall off, so not lasting immunity as yet.
Also that only a percentage produce enough antibodies to fight off infection, and not enough if only a mild illness.
Their conclusions were that herd immunity is probably not achievable relying on infection alone but more and longitudinal research is needed.

Goldengirl

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No evidence we'll ever had a vaccine either, what's your point?

I made my point , not allowed?

uli84

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Technically this is the first wave, even if we dont know when it started
Second wave will begin when the trend becomes positive again
Most countries are now hitting minimum daily new infections and are reopening so it will take probably 2-3 months before numbers start to pile up again

Great just in time to lock again before we even fully exit the lockdown Haha

Beasty

I've just moved a number of posts to the General Covid thread

I am about to delete a number of other posts that do not belong in this forum, or indeed on the sits

Please stick to the topic of Restrictions and relaxation thereof