Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

ixoy

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Those countries didn't let people out of the houses for 2 months, no 2km strolling around, no trips to LIDL to buy a few cans

Germany let people out of their houses. Denmark did too.

LiquidZeb

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Those countries didn't let people out of the houses for 2 months, no 2km strolling around, no trips to LIDL to buy a few cans

And so far I haven't heard of a mass breakout in lidl or in any bottle disposal points as one poster predicted. I don't see how letting people walk 2km from home translates into opening up months behind all of Europe but that's just me.

skelly22

Deleted User wrote: »

The evidence is that masks and social distancing works, there is also evidence social distancing only worked - Denmark, so probably too early to conclude one way or another. Masks certainly cant make things worse however

I hear this a lot recently about there being evidence that masks work. Presuming these masks have been around for years, you'd imagine there wouldn't be any ambiguity about whether they work or not. Yet, only a few weeks ago nobody could make their mind up about whether they're effective or not. Suddenly, there's "Undeniable evidence" they work from virtually every source. I just don't get it tbh.

ednwireland

hse are refusing to do cancer screenings as its too dangerous (i think thats what he said in the dail committee yesterday)

yet opticians and dentists are open

i know of someone diagnosed at the start of march has had nothing from the hse, honestly they need to get there fingers out.

lawrencesummers

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I doubt they can be mentioned along with nurses, doctors and Gardai, they will be at home for 6 months on full pay

6 months? Where are you getting that from? And What do you propose they do? Is it the teachers fault or something?

NegativeCreep

ednwireland wrote: »

hse are refusing to do cancer screenings as its too dangerous (i think thats what he said in the dail committee yesterday)

yet opticians and dentists are open

i know of someone diagnosed at the start of march has had nothing from the hse, honestly they need to get there fingers out.

My mother won’t be getting her radiation therapy this month due to lockdown. BuT LoCkDOwN sAveS LiVeS!

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep mentioning insane ideas like rolling lockdowns and going back into lockdown later this year, regardless of the cost. Even if it means bankrupting the entire country.

There is no vaccine for Covid.

Is there any financial cut off for you? Would you be happy to keep locking down and going further and further into billions and billions more debt? Are you happy to condemn our children to a lifetime of tough times?

At any point would you consider looking at alternatives that offer balance? Cocooning the elderly.

The solutions that you keep suggesting will only lead to society collapsing. Either due to a depleted economy or civil unrest.

I accept Ireland may require a bailout next year. I accepted that from the start. The situation is not sustainable financially and that may one of the consequences of this.

It's pretty strange seeing posters bemoaning restrictions and at the same time applauding people breaking the rules.

Have they ever heard of cause and effect? They want restrictions removed yet want the rules ignored leading to more spread and thus less chance of restrictions being lifted.

Clearly they have not thought through that contradiction.

ednwireland

NegativeCreep wrote: »

My mother won’t be getting her radiation therapy this month due to lockdown. BuT LoCkDOwN sAveS LiVeS!

sorry to hear that, seems completely crazy to me ! lets hope theres moves on this very soon.

FishOnABike

daithi7 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52470838

'....The health ministry's infectious diseases chief Daniel Koch said scientists had concluded that young children did not transmit the virus.....'

But yet he also says "brief contact with grandchildren", not family get-togethers, babysitting, or spending time with children outside the home and continues to say such meetings should be brief and not involve babysitting

The article goes on to say not all experts concur with the Swiss government's findings...the question of whether children contracted the virus, and if so how they might pass it on, was answered differently in different studies. and Advice in the UK remains that children should not have contact with grandparents.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I accept Ireland may require a bailout next year. I accepted that from the start. The situation is not sustainable financially and that may one of the consequences of this.

It's pretty strange seeing posters bemoaning restrictions and at the same time applauding people breaking the rules.

Have they ever heard of cause and effect? They want restrictions removed yet want the rules ignored leading to more spread and thus less chance of restrictions being lifted.

Clearly they have not thought through that contradiction.

Ah brilliant you accept the bailout. That makes everything alright so. Here I was scared out of my wits but Kermit doesn't mind so all is well with the world.

Kermit.de.frog

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Ah brilliant you accept the bailout. That makes everything alright so. Here I was scared out of my wits but Kermit doesn't mind so all is well with the world.

I want us out of this as quickly as possible and I don't want us back here at the end of the year.

Not hard to understand.

There is no vaccine for Covid. Anyone fearing a 1st or 2nd wave may well be right. But there could also be another 10 or 20 waves.
Hiding in our homes is not the solution. Society will collapse and we'll end up living in a world thats not worth living in anyways.

The sensible thing to do is to reopen while the R0 is so low and the illness is practically gone from the community.

If a first wave arrives in Ireland, we might need to look at cocooning the elders and maybe a ban on very large events such as concerts, sports.

If people are afraid to leave the house, they should be able to make arrangements to receive basic social welfare with no pressure to do FAS courses etc.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I want us out of this as quickly as possible and I don't want us back here at the end of the year.

Not hard to understand.

Ah sure the economy doesn't matter in the meantime. People's and small businesses rent and mortgages will wait until you decide whatever magic date everything is safe again.

ZX7R

s1ippy wrote: »

You're going to have to reveal your sources for both of those assertions.

Read my post again I don't need to reveal any sorces it was on the rte business news.
I'm surprised people look at restrictions with blinkers on and don't look at other avenues of news.
You can read a newsletter from the EU commission that actually has much more information than the news report,or you can even download a full PDF report if you like

Kermit.de.frog

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Ah sure the economy doesn't matter in the meantime. People's and small businesses rent and mortgages will wait until you decide whatever magic date everything is safe again.

The economy won't function with this disease out of control and markets closed to us.

It's a zero sum game.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I accept Ireland may require a bailout next year. I accepted that from the start. The situation is not sustainable financially and that may one of the consequences of this.

It's pretty strange seeing posters bemoaning restrictions and at the same time applauding people breaking the rules.

Have they ever heard of cause and effect? They want restrictions removed yet want the rules ignored leading to more spread and thus less chance of restrictions being lifted.

Clearly they have not thought through that contradiction.

People will follow rules when they make sense. people were happy to lockdown in March and parts of April.

The R0 is way lower than 1, the hospitals are nowhere near capacity and the cases are mainly nursing homes and medical staff.

Tony admitted its practically no longer in the community now. Yet we have another 2.5 weeks of what is practically lockdown with garden centres open.

The restrictions are disproportionate to the situation. This is fueling the unrest.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The economy won't function with this disease out of control and markets closed to us.

It's a zero sum game.

You'd best share this info with Germany and Denmark. Clearly those impulsive fools are seconds from catastrophe.

Wibbs

skelly22 wrote: »

I hear this a lot recently about there being evidence that masks work. Presuming these masks have been around for years, you'd imagine there wouldn't be any ambiguity about whether they work or not. Yet, only a few weeks ago nobody could make their mind up about whether they're effective or not. Suddenly, there's "Undeniable evidence" they work from virtually every source. I just don't get it tbh.

Almost all of that was down to concerns about PPE supply to healthcare workers. It's well known that they work. The HSE while saying in one sentence that they were of no value for the uninfected said in the next sentence that if you had the virus or were looking after someone with it they did, and of course they worked for healthcare workers. Now the PPE supply isn't the issue it once was and countries are trying to reopen masks are back on the table, when they should have been from the get go, like they were in Asian countries with experience of SARS and flu outbreaks. They took them as a given as part of the protocols in fighting this virus. Look at their numbers of dead and compare them to ours.

Of the other measures we are happy to believe in? Hand washing like masks has good science behind it(and a few studies that show doing both increases the effectiveness of both). Social distancing, specifically the two metre rule? The science is extremely sketchy on that. For a time we even had the 15 minute rule whereby so long as you avoided close contact for less than 15 minutes you were fine. Complete nonsense, though some still buy it. Our own expert in contagious diseases was telling us asymptomatic spread was of near zero risk a month after it was known it most certainly wasn't. If he said that today he'd be laughed at(though maybe not with our news media). Coughing into your sleeve? Don't get me started, yet a "sleeve" covering your airways, the route by which the virus transmits and infects is "up in the air"?

is_that_so

polesheep wrote: »

Therefore the previous non-resolution of it must have led to increased numbers being reported.

No, you can't imply that, there were a lot more cases. It was flagged as an issue, in the hundreds IIRC and at one of the HSE briefings in the last few weeks.

Kermit.de.frog

LiquidZeb wrote: »

You'd best share this info with Germany and Denmark. Clearly those impulsive fools are seconds from catastrophe.

The outbreak is under control at the moment in both those countries thus they have scope.

Countries will close their borders to those who don't retain control.

The United States will close it's borders to those countries, for example.

We don't want that to be us.

So long as the outbreak is suppressed countries have more latitude obviously.

is_that_so

ednwireland wrote: »

hse are refusing to do cancer screenings as its too dangerous (i think thats what he said in the dail committee yesterday)

yet opticians and dentists are open

i know of someone diagnosed at the start of march has had nothing from the hse, honestly they need to get there fingers out.

They are not high risk locations and dentists are well well-kitted out anyway. As for the medical side when HIQA are flagging hospital issues it's still unsafe. Nobody involved in such programmes has any issues with the pause at present.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/urgent-action-required-to-curb-infection-risk-in-hospitals-hiqa-warns-1.4258548

NegativeCreep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The outbreak is under control at the moment in both those countries thus they have scope.

Countries will close their borders to those who don't retain control.

The United States will close it's borders to those countries, for example.

We don't want that to be us.

So long as the outbreak is suppressed countries have more latitude obviously.

Is the disease not under control here?

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The outbreak is under control at the moment in both those countries thus they have scope.

Countries will close their borders to those who don't retain control.

The United States will close it's borders to those countries, for example.

We don't want that to be us.

So long as the outbreak is suppressed countries have more latitude obviously.

But wait I thought our economy was going to collapse with or without a lockdown, now you're talking about restricting visitors from countries who don't have a handle on things. Holohan himself has said it's essentially gone from the community, how much lower do you want our numbers to go?

skelly22

Wibbs wrote: »

Almost all of that was down to concerns about PPE supply to healthcare workers. It's well known that they work. The HSE while saying in one sentence that they were of no value for the uninfected said in the next sentence that if you had the virus or were looking after someone with it they did, and of course they worked for healthcare workers. Now the PPE supply isn't the issue it once was and countries are trying to reopen masks are back on the table, when they should have been from the get go, like they were in Asian countries with experience of SARS and flu outbreaks. They took them as a given as part of the protocols in fighting this virus. Look at their numbers of dead and compare them to ours.

Of the other measures we are happy to believe in? Hand washing like masks has good science behind it(and a few studies that show doing both increases the effectiveness of both). Social distancing, specifically the two metre rule? The science is extremely sketchy on that. For a time we even had the 15 minute rule whereby so long as you avoided close contact for less than 15 minutes you were fine. Complete nonsense, though some still buy it. Our own expert in contagious diseases was telling us asymptomatic spread was of near zero risk a month after it was known it most certainly wasn't. If he said that today he'd be laughed at(though maybe not with our news media). Coughing into your sleeve? Don't get me started, yet a "sleeve" covering your airways, the route by which the virus transmits and infects is "up in the air"?

Ah yes, but what if the virus hits me in the eye?! There are just so many questions around them. I saw a piece on CNN yesterday purporting to be "New evidence" that masks work which, in reality, was simply an outrageous piece of propaganda in their favour.
And the line of "Generally speaking, you need to be within 2 mtrs of an infected person for at least 15 mins to be considered at risk" flies in the face of the vast majority of social distancing measures being introduced! So much of what we hear doesn' t make any sense.

Kermit.de.frog

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is the disease not under control here?

It seems broadly under control but our figures for cases and deaths remain significantly above Austria and Denmark but low enough that we could begin reopening process.

LiquidZeb

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is the disease not under control here?

I guess not. We'd best order 12 pallets of beans and big gallon jugs of water and wait until the sun supernovas then we'll be sure covid is gone.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It seems broadly under control but our figures for cases and deaths remain significantly above Austria and Denmark but low enough that we could begin reopening process.

But wait I thought you said there was no point as we'd only be back to square one come Autumn?

Ginger n Lemon

LiquidZeb wrote: »

You'd best share this info with Germany and Denmark. Clearly those impulsive fools are seconds from catastrophe.

This :D:D

CruelSummer

Interesting check of flight radar this morning, huge numbers of flights over and around Germany. Very quiet elsewhere in Europe. Anyone know the reason as to why German skies are so busy again?

Kermit.de.frog

LiquidZeb wrote: »

But wait I thought our economy was going to collapse with or without a lockdown, now you're talking about restricting visitors from countries who don't have a handle on things. Holohan himself has said it's essentially gone from the community, how much lower do you want our numbers to go?

You are saying the economy will collapse, I never said that.

I said we may require international assistance if measures need to be restored which would be an IMF bailout package.

It's amazing people seem to think something fundamental has changed between Feb and now regarding COVID.