Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

amadangomor wrote: »

These American extremists/simpletons are a good moral compass i.e. do the opposite of what these lunatics do

People want to live their lives and you call them lunatics?

If restrictions arent going to be lifted in this country AHEAD of schedule, I see good few lunatics taking to the streets going to the government buildings. This will upset good 50% of the posters here as that is as opposite to a lockdown as it can get.

And they ll be right to do so. How long do you expect people will tolerate being told that their job is lost? that half of workforce is being let go?

You have grown men who have worked for 10, 15, 20 years are now being told "government is shutting us down" "we are very sorry"

snowcat

iamwhoiam wrote: »

From the beginning Leo said a lockdown could not be in place too soon as it cannot last long and if implemented too soon it wouldn’t last to get over the peak
They absolutely know that the lockdown starts to collapse after a certain lenght of time and we have reached that point now.
They knew all along that four or five weeks was the max that it would be adhered to and I am sure that they dragged it out these two weeks knowing well it would slowly collapse

There is a certain logic to that policy. Loosen the lockdown gradually and see what happens but blame the people if cases rise.

rob316

A lockdown is only as good as its enforced. The arse is gone out of this, realistically not much happens between now and the 8th June still which is a farce in itself.

I'm not worried or even care about 20 people a day dying and 100 new cases and I'll care less as the numbers fall further. Its human nature

Ginger n Lemon

rob316 wrote: »

A lockdown is only as good as its enforced. The arse is gone out of this, realistically not much happens between now and the 8th June still which is a farce in itself.

I'm not worried or even care about 20 people a day dying and 100 new cases and I'll care less as the numbers fall further. Its human nature

As harsh as you may come across its so true.

Its sucha pity that our younger generation will grow up with so much hate and dislike for their own country. All at the hands of a handful of "medical" experts.

I think the previous poster on prior thread put it down very much spot on - we need to find justifications of continuing the lockdown. Not lifting the lockdown.

robbiezero

amadangomor wrote: »

We really are a whinging generation.

Can you imagine say when London was getting bombed during the Blitz that people would complain about having to go to shelters, children getting evacuated and men having to go off to war to fight the evils of nazism. Nah, they had a fecking backbone and did what was needed.

Here some of our population are whining and moaning endlessly about having to sit home and watch TV. Which is all we have to do to stop the biggest crisis facing our generation.

Really sad!

That absolute dung got old weeks ago.

normanoffside

Also:

LiquidZeb

robbiezero wrote: »

That absolute dung got old weeks ago.

It's like Uncle Albert from only fools and horses. 'During the war.....'

ceadaoin.

Where I am is starting phase 1 of the reopening tomorrow, earlier than the original date of May 15. Shops, restaurants, salons etc can operate at 50% capacity. Even bars can open if they also serve food but the actual bar can't be used for seating.. I wonder if they'll be busy?

I noticed yesterday way more people out and about and the supermarket and hardware shop was pretty busy. Massive queue of cars for Starbucks drive thru. People are sick of the lockdown the world over it seems.

Ginger n Lemon

Heres a case for lifting restrictions MUCH MUCH earlier


"As of noon today, Los Angeles County had reported 617 deaths out of 13,816 confirmed cases, which implies a fatality rate of 4.5 percent. Based on that death toll, the new study suggests the true fatality rate among everyone infected by the virus is somewhere between 0.1 percent and 0.3 percent (without taking into account people infected since the study was conducted). The lower end of that range is about the same as the estimated fatality rate for the seasonal flu."

https://reason.com/2020/04/20/l-a-county-antibody-tests-suggest-the-fatality-rate-for-covid-19-is-much-lower-than-people-feared/

The numbers do not make any sense when you think about the damage done to the business sector. Especially hospitality

gozunda

growleaves wrote: »

Londoners only went into shelters during bombing raids then they came out again. Throughout the 39-45 war, including during the London Blitz bombings, they kept open schools and universities, examinations, arts (theatre, opera, music, dance), museums, book shops, scientific research, live sports etc.

A grown man who wanted to confine people in shelters indefinitely in order to "save lives" would not have been listened to in the 1940s, you can be certain of that.

The poster did not poster say otherwise. The fact is that massive restrictions were placed on the entire population during WW2. Curfews were common. People were killed by bombs even in bomb shelters. ARP and police were given enhanced powers. Travel was restricted. Food was rationed. Children were packed up and dispatched away from their families to live with strangers in rural areas. Thd reason that some public facilities remained open was to keep morale up and to cater for those in the army and those in the war effort. The primary difference was there was no major contagion so that wasnt a risk which had to be considered.

The hyperbole in this thread is truely at historic levels tbh.

Restrictions have been put in place in many countries around the world. So no it's not only a "grown man". And no one wishes to "confine people in shelters indefinitely".

In Ireland people have been under stay at home restictions for 6 weeks. Italy had 2 months. And yet we have 'grown men" whinging like babies - that they can't go the pub. The same individuals would most likely have been incarcerated in the 1940s ...

We are more enlightened now. The same get to moan and whinge instead on social media ...

normanoffside

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Heres a case for lifting restrictions MUCH MUCH earlier


"As of noon today, Los Angeles County had reported 617 deaths out of 13,816 confirmed cases, which implies a fatality rate of 4.5 percent. Based on that death toll, the new study suggests the true fatality rate among everyone infected by the virus is somewhere between 0.1 percent and 0.3 percent (without taking into account people infected since the study was conducted). The lower end of that range is about the same as the estimated fatality rate for the seasonal flu."

https://reason.com/2020/04/20/l-a-county-antibody-tests-suggest-the-fatality-rate-for-covid-19-is-much-lower-than-people-feared/

The numbers do not make any sense when you think about the damage done to the business sector. Especially hospitality

One thing I have noticed is that hysterical people do not like dealing with Maths.

Ginger n Lemon

normanoffside wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is that hysterical people do not like dealing with Maths.

I actually think that the reason 350 eur per week covid payment is so generous is because government knows that its taking peoples jobs away (permanently). But to sooth the blow they pay them 350 eur for 4 - 6 - 10 weeks and try to make it seem like there are no changes at all.

What a spineless tactic

LiquidZeb

gozunda wrote: »

The poster did not poster say otherwise. The fact is that massive restrictions were placed on the entire population during WW2. Curfews were common. People were killed by bombs even in bomb shelters. ARP and police were given enhanced powers. Travel was restricted. Food was rationed. Children were packed up and dispatched away from their families to live with strangers in rural areas. Thd reason that some public facilities remained open was to keep morale up and to cater for those in the army and those in the war effort. The primary difference was there was no major contagion so that wasnt a risk which had to be considered.

The hyperbole in this thread is truely at historic levels tbh.

Restrictions have been put in place in many countries around the world. So no it's not only a "grown man". And no one wishes to "confine people in shelters indefinitely".

In Ireland people have been under stay at home restictions for 6 weeks. Italy had 2 months. And yet we have 'grown men" whinging like babies - that they can't go the pub. The same individuals would most likely have been incarcerated in the 1940s ...

We are more enlightened now. The same get to moan and whinge instead on social media ...

There'll be plenty of grown men whinging when they get laid off and the letters from the bank start coming? Will they invoke the blitz spirit? Go off to the daily mail comments section to flog that ****e.

stephenjmcd

normanoffside wrote: »

Also:

Yes for example if a patient has terminal cancer and contracts covid in the hospital settings and subsequently dies, its recorded as a covid death regardless of if it was the ultimate cause of death or not as the case may be.

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I actually think that the reason 350 eur per week covid payment is so generous is because government knows that its taking peoples jobs away (permanently). But to sooth the blow they pay them 350 eur for 4 - 6 - 10 weeks and try to make it seem like there are no changes at all.

What a spineless tactic

Bread and circuses. It's a tactic as old as the hills.

normanoffside

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes for example if a patient has terminal cancer and contracts covid in the hospital settings and subsequently dies, its recorded as a covid death regardless of if it was the ultimate cause of death or not as the case may be.

Yes. so basically the mortality rate is even lower again.
At this stage it literally is no more deadly than flu.

Ginger n Lemon

LiquidZeb wrote: »

There'll be plenty of grown men whinging when they get laid off and the letters from the bank start coming? Will they invoke the blitz spirit? Go off to the daily mail comments section to flog that ****e.

They need to lift restrictions fast and save as many jobs as possible.


I cant believe we are even discussing WW2. In world war 2 men went to war accepting HUGE risk to protect their way of life.

Ireland in 2020: stay at home to avoid risk and give up your way of life.

In war terms we have surrounded through cowardice.

People who fought in WW2 would be ashamed of us now.

growleaves

Yeah but gozunda if people had hid in shelters throughout the 39-45 war they would have saved more lives without a doubt. Yet they chose not to do that. That generation of brave and stoic people did not think that "saving lives" was paramount. They thought it was more important to keep going. Biological life span and extending it was not the bottom line.

Life went on, just as it went on during serious pandemics like the 1968-69 pandemic (2 million dead).

normanoffside

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

They need to lift restrictions fast and save as many jobs as possible.


I cant believe we are even discussing WW2. In world war 2 men went to war accepting HUGE risk to protect their way of life.

Ireland in 2020: stay at home to give up your way of life.

In war terms we have surrounded through cowardice.

People who fought in WW2 would be ashamed of us now.

I agree with that.
What were the chances of dying or being permanently inured/disabled if you went to WW1 or WW2?
I think a lot higher than 0.1%

stephenjmcd

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes. so basically the mortality rate is even lower again.
At this stage it literally is no more deadly than flu.

It could well be lower, we actually wont have any way of knowing. You might be able to get some idea as to how serious of a condition someone might have already been in going by underlying conditions but we might never know what the true mortality rate is.

amadangomor

growleaves wrote: »

Yeah but gozunda if people had hid in shelters throughout the 39-45 war they would have saved more lives without a doubt. Yet they chose not to do that. That generation of brave and stoic people did not think that "saving lives" was paramount. They thought it was more important to keep going. Biological life span and extending it was not the bottom line.

Life went on, just as it went on during serious pandemics like the 1968-69 pandemic (2 million dead).

Sorry but your posts give the impression of little comprehension of the argument and zero sublty of thought so I couldn't be arsed arguing with you.

Will leave the whingers to it here.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It could well be lower, we actually wont have any way of knowing. You might be able to get some idea as to how serious of a condition someone might have already been in going by underlying conditions but we might never know what the true mortality rate is.

Well if we consider that covid knows no borders and that it has been out there for 4 months (potentially 5 months), given that under 4 million have been infected and under 300k died, numbers show that as a planet rate of infections is 0.05% , mortality rate is 0.0038%.

4 months. Not 4 days or 4 weeks... 4 months.

amadangomor

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Bread and circuses. It's a tactic as old as the hills.

Conspiracy threads are somewhere else buddy.

LiquidZeb

amadangomor wrote: »

Conspiracy threads are somewhere else buddy.

So you don't think there's a layer of appeasement in the generosity of the social welfare payouts or do you think they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts? Im guessing you're one of the Leo's playing a blinder brigade?

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

They need to lift restrictions fast and save as many jobs as possible.


I cant believe we are even discussing WW2. In world war 2 men went to war accepting HUGE risk to protect their way of life.

Ireland in 2020: stay at home to avoid risk and give up your way of life.

In war terms we have surrounded through cowardice.

People who fought in WW2 would be ashamed of us now.

Can you even begin to understand how anyone could compare WW2 to hiding away from a flu while flushing your children and grandchildrens future down the toilet. Its embarrassing.

Ginger n Lemon

What a disgusting article on Irish Independent

"We mourn the loss of once-great Bewley's cafe but it failed because it simply wasn't good enough"

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/we-mourn-the-loss-of-once-great-bewleys-cafe-but-it-failed-because-it-simply-wasnt-good-enough-39189080.html

Do people really believe that this place was destined to bankrupt after undergoing renovations?

It is directly impacted by A) lockdown having to operate at ludicrous capacity once re opened.

So many people lost touch with how a business operates, they think that because Apple has 14 bn cash laying around to pay European fines that all businesses have endless cash reserves. Its getting worrying how poor newspapers have become

Fogmatic

Just to thank those who clarified things for me re over-70s and walks, in response to post #8856 on Wednesday evening in the previous thread. I don't know if I found all of them (difficult in such a long, fast-moving thread). And sorry I seemed to ignore them, but bedtime came earlier than planned (wanted to help my husband get to sleep, and we're in basically one room). I spotted several in the morning (once I'd unfollowed this topic to stop the stream of notifications freezing my phone!), but then couldn't find them again to respond to each one.

Perhaps the answers were already here somewhere,but when the relaxation was announced I was still in a week-long struggle to restore communication with the outside world, due to a system upgrade (to put it politely) at Three. (And I couldn't find the right page to start looking from or get the right search keywords).

Anyway, it's great to know we can now go for a walk. And I won't be forgetting any of the guidelines. We're about 9km from the nearest town, and I stopped going out for groceries am few days before we were grounded, as soon as I found that the supermarket was able to deliver this far out of town. The pharmacy can as well, and I have no wish to go into a shop until the situation's changed. (Our relatives all live in the UK, in case you're wondering, and our house has never been on any friends' regular routes).

I'm very lucky with health and fitness and seem to have a strong immune system, and we're in a good area for keeping our distance (otherwise I'd probably think again). All our neighbours are doing the right thing, and the geography makes that easy (views for a good distance in all directions, and we can hear a vehicle approaching some way off). The local lane off the road we're on doesn't have much traffic but is wide enough for distancing, in calm weather anyway. (I haven't happened on any talk about increasing distance to take account of the wind except re cyclists' and runners' slipstreams, but it feels a good idea to be aware of the direction if passing someone).

I have other questions, but different forums such as Motors are better for those.

I'll try and post this at a time when I can leave the browser on this page for a while and refresh it every so often, to try not to miss comments (if any), though I can never count on something else not coming up. (Must make a note of the page number this time!).

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What a disgusting article on Irish Independent

"We mourn the loss of once-great Bewley's cafe but it failed because it simply wasn't good enough"

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/we-mourn-the-loss-of-once-great-bewleys-cafe-but-it-failed-because-it-simply-wasnt-good-enough-39189080.html

Do people really believe that this place was destined to bankrupt after undergoing renovations?

It is directly impacted by A) lockdown having to operate at ludicrous capacity once re opened.

So many people lost touch with how a business operates, they think that because Apple has 14 bn cash laying around to pay European fines that all businesses have endless cash reserves. Its getting worrying how poor newspapers have become

If you're looking for a good paper I'd suggest subscribing to the Irish version of the UK times. Brilliant journalism and the guardian are great too outside of opinion pieces.

easypazz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Can you even begin to understand how anyone could compare WW2 to hiding away from a flu while flushing your children and grandchildrens future down the toilet. Its embarrassing.

If them lads were in WW2 they would be trying to pass themselves off as children so they could get onto the evacuation sailings to Canada and safety.

easypazz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What a disgusting article on Irish Independent

"We mourn the loss of once-great Bewley's cafe but it failed because it simply wasn't good enough"

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/we-mourn-the-loss-of-once-great-bewleys-cafe-but-it-failed-because-it-simply-wasnt-good-enough-39189080.html

Do people really believe that this place was destined to bankrupt after undergoing renovations?

It is directly impacted by A) lockdown having to operate at ludicrous capacity once re opened.

So many people lost touch with how a business operates, they think that because Apple has 14 bn cash laying around to pay European fines that all businesses have endless cash reserves. Its getting worrying how poor newspapers have become

Bewleys rent is €28500 per week.