Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

CruelSummer

This thread has been continuously disrupted all day by people trying to pick a fight with those arguing for a speeding up in our exit from Ireland’s lockdown. I can only assume they’ve realised the majority of people now agree that our exit strategy is too slow and have come here for their ‘day in the sun’ before people have more to do than sit on boards all day.
What is the alternative plan put forward by those opposed? Another IMF bailout? Keep under restrictions indefinitely at any cost? Ignore all the new data emerging re prevalence of the virus falling across Europe despite countries continuing to lift the restrictions?

lawrencesummers

snowcat wrote: »

The EU has broadly similiar road laws. Speed limits are set by different countries as they see fit, similiar to counties in Ireland setting their speed limits on roads as they see fit. Motorways have a set standard. Alcohol similiar levels etc etc. Countries in Europe with the worst road death rates look to better performing countries to see what they are doing right and implement their measures. Can we not do the same for Covid? Now please spell out.

And we are one of the worst performing countries in Europe and a bit of a laughing stock internationally with our glacial lockdown policy so I dont think anyone will be looking to us for advice.

It’s going to embarrass you further to find out for the first time that most of Europe actually drives on the other side of the road. Like does the exact opposite of us.


Stop digging. Your nonsense in this road laws thing is frightening.

MonkstownHoop

Anything about graveyards opening for visits?

the kelt

average_runner wrote: »

Only in certain regions of Spain.
They didn't queue outside McDonald's after lockdown like our idiots.

Ok yeah,

They probably don’t have that strain of virus like we have either, we got the one with the built in gps that knows your more than 5k from your home on an unnecessary journey and then can get ye really bad and becomes really aggressive, I think it’s called the garmin strain.

sydthebeat

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Anything about graveyards opening for visits?

Sure there's loads of people dying to get in.......


















.

Arghus

CruelSummer wrote: »

This thread has been continuously disrupted all day by people trying to pick a fight with those arguing for a speeding up in our exit from Ireland’s lockdown. I can only assume they’ve realised the majority of people now agree that our exit strategy is too slow and have come here for their ‘day in the sun’ before people have more to do than sit on boards all day.
What is the alternative plan put forward by those opposed? Another IMF bailout? Keep under restrictions indefinitely at any cost? Ignore all the new data emerging re prevalence of the virus falling across Europe despite countries continuing to lift the restrictions?

Trying to pick a fight? You mean expressing an opposing view?

AdamD

Arghus wrote: »

A lot of you don't believe it, but the majority of people outside this thread - in the real world - support the lockdown and easing it gradually.

What people are you meeting that are happy to still be under restrictions come August?

I find most who aren't questioning it are the ones who haven't really considered that in 6 weeks time they'll still be heavily restricted. Leo's comments about debt today might concentrate a few minds too. This is costing taxpayers huge amounts by the week. Sorry if I'm the devil for saying that has to be considered.

Breezin

Breezin wrote: »

A must-read on the failed logic of the lockdown...

Sunetra Gupta: Covid-19 is on the way out... https://unherd.com/2020/05/oxford-doubles-down-sunetra-gupta-interview/

Reading that I suggest any budding epidemiologists go to Cambridge not Oxford. Reads like a boards post. I have my theory and because the facts don’t match my theory they are wrong. No evidence at all as to why antibody test are so wrong as to only to detect a tiny fraction of those supposedly exposed.

CruelSummer

Arghus wrote: »

Trying to pick a fight? You mean expressing an opposing view?

I really don’t mind opposing views and related sources, info, etc. But today doesn’t seem to be about debating of the issue at hand unfortunately. Just more dismantling of posters and their points. There are a certain number or posters who engage in this regularly on this forum which the ignore button works for, but today it’s just continuous.

lawrencesummers

CruelSummer wrote: »

This thread has been continuously disrupted all day by people trying to pick a fight with those arguing for a speeding up in our exit from Ireland’s lockdown. I can only assume they’ve realised the majority of people now agree that our exit strategy is too slow and have come here for their ‘day in the sun’ before people have more to do than sit on boards all day.
What is the alternative plan put forward by those opposed? Another IMF bailout? Keep under restrictions indefinitely at any cost? Ignore all the new data emerging re prevalence of the virus falling across Europe despite countries continuing to lift the restrictions?

So your making an assumption on everyone’s opinion and anyone that doesn’t agree is just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Conceited much?

snowcat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s going to embarrass you further to find out for the first time that most of Europe actually drives on the other side of the road. Like does the exact opposite of us.


Stop digging. Your nonsense in this road laws thing is frightening.

Exact opposite with the exact same rules. Will you stop spouting ****e and spell out what you were going to spell out, you are just embarassing yourself now.

lawrencesummers

snowcat wrote: »

Exact opposite with the exact same rules. Will you stop spouting ****e and spell out what you were going to spell out, you are just embarassing yourself now.

It must be past your bedtime.

CruelSummer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So your making an assumption on everyone’s opinion and anyone that doesn’t agree is just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Conceited much?

I’d prefer to just debate the issues. I don’t really think this kind of tit for tat gets anyone anywhere to be honest. Where do you stand on the current roadmap and where we go from here?

pjohnson

Arghus wrote: »

Trying to pick a fight? You mean expressing an opposing view?

If you dont agree fully you are the enemy and must be defeated.

RobitTV

Even if by some sort of overwhelming magical miracle the new cases hit 0 tomorrow, the lockdown merchants still won't be anywhere close to being satisfied.

Even if the cases remained at 0 for a month, they will have a new excuse at the ready to try and make sure those who want to earn a living and get back to work, remain watching Netflix at home and chill.

Repeat after me everyone:
Netflix and chill
Netflix and chill
Netflix and chill

CruelSummer

pjohnson wrote: »

If you dont agree fully you are the enemy and must be defeated.

What is your view then pjohnson? Let hear it? People are always very good at knocking others with no solutions offered themselves

Arghus

AdamD wrote: »

What people are you meeting that are happy to still be under restrictions come August?

I find most who aren't questioning it are the ones who haven't really considered that in 6 weeks time they'll still be heavily restricted. Leo's comments about debt today might concentrate a few minds too. This is costing taxpayers huge amounts by the week. Sorry if I'm the devil for saying that has to be considered.

No one wants to under heavy restrictions in August. Even I don't want to be, believe it or not. I sincerely hope that we can get back to living relatively normal lives as soon as possible.

The road map is very Conservative, but every single party involved with it's design and implementation have said innumerable times that it is not a cast iron document and will be kept under review and if there is postive news in regards to keeping the virus under check things will be speeded up. It's been repeated over and over again.

I don't for one second believe that if we're down to even lower rates of cases in even a months time then things won't be accelerated. There will be political will to do it, economic sense in doing it and unbelievable public pressure to hurry it up.

snowcat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s going to embarrass you further to find out for the first time that most of Europe actually drives on the other side of the road. Like does the exact opposite of us.


Stop digging. Your nonsense in this road laws thing is frightening.

And they speak different languages. But they translate the same. I hate to break it to you but they have basically the same laws as us even if they drive on a different side of the road. Can you stop embarassing yourself and spell out what you said you would spell out or else I will just disregard you.

Breezin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Reading that I suggest any budding epidemiologists go to Cambridge not Oxford. Reads like a boards post. I have my theory and because the facts don’t match my theory they are wrong. No evidence at all as to why antibody test are so wrong as to only to detect a tiny fraction of those supposedly exposed.

Actually hilarious. She's Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at the University of Oxford! You don't like her science and you're damned if you're gonna listen to it.

Kermit.de.frog

RobitTV wrote: »

Even if by some sort of overwhelming magical miracle the new cases hit 0 tomorrow, the lockdown merchants still won't be anywhere close to being satisfied.

Can you point to a single post where any poster wants a 'lock down'?

Thought not.

Nobody wants restrictions. There is a difference between wanting and needing.

The posts don't exist.

AdamD

Arghus wrote: »

No one wants to under heavy restrictions in August. Even I don't want to be, believe it or not. I sincerely hope that we can get back to living relatively normal lives as soon as possible.

The road map is very Conservative, but every single party involved with it's design and implementation have said innumerable times that it is not a cast iron document and will be kept under review and if there is postive news in regards to keeping the virus under check things will be speeded up. It's been repeated over and over again.

I don't for one second believe that if we're down to even lower rates of cases in even a months time then things won't be accelerated. There will be political will to do it, economic sense in doing it and unbelievable public pressure to hurry it up.

Genuinely could be wrong here but any comments I've seen have been more along the lines of 'its not set in stone', than any sort of hint towards the possibility of moving the timeline. The language hasn't suggested its likely at all. Plenty of comments saying we can go back a step though.

Kermit.de.frog

AdamD wrote: »

Genuinely could be wrong here but any comments I've seen have been more along the lines of 'its not set in stone', than any sort of hint towards the possibility of moving the timeline. The language hasn't suggested its likely at all. Plenty of comments saying we can go back a step though.

Presumably they want to guard against complacency.

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Reading that I suggest any budding epidemiologists go to Cambridge not Oxford. Reads like a boards post. I have my theory and because the facts don’t match my theory they are wrong. No evidence at all as to why antibody test are so wrong as to only to detect a tiny fraction of those supposedly exposed.

Ah yeah sure any eejit can become an Oxford professor of theoretical epidemiology.

is_that_so

Breezin wrote: »

Actually hilarious. She's Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at the University of Oxford! You don't like her science and you're damned if you're gonna listen to it.

I read what she had to say and there nothing we haven't heard or seen already.

Kermit.de.frog

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Ah yeah sure any eejit can become an Oxford professor of theoretical epidemiology.

So you are in to experts now suddenly? :pac:

Just as long as its experts that agree with you.

lawrencesummers

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’d prefer to just debate the issues. I don’t really think this kind of tit for tat gets anyone anywhere to be honest. Where do you stand on the current roadmap and where we go from here?

Your post attacked the people who disagree with you, not looking for discussion.

As for where I stand on it.... that will take some explaining.

I’m given to believe that it’s open to change, And it needs to be, not all of the rules have made sense to me but there has to be some hard and fast rule about things, when you make one exception you have to make hundreds.(The 5km thing doesn’t make sense for cycling alone, or driving to a golf course)

The restrictions seem overly cautious but thats not to be proven until we are out of the woods. The ultimate goal has to be avoidance of a second wave because a second lockdown is the worst possible outcome.

The roadmap doesn’t address international travel and that’s a major worry, we are very close to eradicating the presence of the disease here, but international travel is a risk for it returning.

I have the same belief about this that I have had since day one, there is no guidebook, no experienced tried and tested playbook for handling this Based upon Detailed peer reviewed scientific analysis of the disease and ultimately mistakes are guaranteed to be made along the way by those making decisions. I prefer that those mistakes are made in being over cautious, not overly optimistic.,

Open to early and risk another wave, open to late and the economy bounces back later. That’s the risk I see.

Ginger n Lemon

I hope we arent relying on low new cases to open up

"Beaumont emergency department ‘packed’ with no social distancing in place, Dáil hears

No social distancing or infection control measures were in place in Beaumont Hospital last weekend when the emergency department waiting room was “packed” with large numbers of people sitting side by side, the Dáil was told."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/beaumont-emergency-department-packed-with-no-social-distancing-in-place-d%C3%A1il-hears-1.4259603?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Foireachtas%2Fbeaumont-emergency-department-packed-with-no-social-distancing-in-place-d%25C3%25A1il-hears-1.4259603

Be waiting for 2021. At this rate Scotland will be quicker than us if Tony wants low infection numbers to proceed to phase 2.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

Genuinely could be wrong here but any comments I've seen have been more along the lines of 'its not set in stone', than any sort of hint towards the possibility of moving the timeline. The language hasn't suggested its likely at all. Plenty of comments saying we can go back a step though.

As Nolan pointed out tonight R0 is snapshot from about 10-14 days ago. The end of next week and the early days of June will tell us what will happen.

RobitTV

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can you point to a single post where any poster wants a 'lock down'?

Thought not.

Nobody wants restrictions. There is a difference between wanting and needing.

The posts don't exist.

Let's re-open the economy in June then. We don't need the restrictions to last until August.

I'm not questioning the lockdown itself, im questioning the timescale and i don't agree with the timescale and the current phased plan.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So you are in to experts now suddenly? :pac:

Just as long as its experts that agree with you.

When was i ever not into experts? Seriously stop trying to catch me out you're embarrassing yourself.