Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

snowcat

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Kindly show us your evidence for this statement.

Not sure why i am justifying sense with some lunatic but a quick google will give you evidence
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0507/1136928-covid-19-cancer/

titan18

SusieBlue wrote:

And it may be ‘rubbish’ to you but for a lot of couples they have spent a lot of money & time planning for their big day and the extreme over cautious social distancing measures are causing them a lot of concern. As well as that, the numerous cancellations & postponings is going to have a massive negative effect on the hotel industry. The lost revenue is going to be a lot to take after being shut for half the year.

Tbf the hotel industry have been a sh1tshow for years in this country so whilst I sympathize with the staff, it's karma for the management and owners who found it fine to price gouge over the years.

Jackman25

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This old populist rubbish again used to bolster an argument.

If Covid didnt exist most of those perhaps would of passed on naturally. Do you extend your sympathy in such a manner to every death in Ireland every day of every year?

65 people died in ICU, so 65 people out of the complete death toll were deemed healthy enough in the first place to recieve intensive care.

Doom Mongers are really stretching when they start using the
"Tell that to the families of the dead..." argument.
Lowest common denominator stuff from Walter Mitty types who were predicting catastrophe and can't handle being wrong.

Jizique

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This old populist rubbish again used to bolster an argument.

If Covid didnt exist most of those perhaps would of passed on naturally. Do you extend your sympathy in such a manner to every death in Ireland every day of every year?

65 people died in ICU, so 65 people out of the complete death toll were deemed healthy enough in the first place to recieve intensive care.

Yes, approx 6 per week since early March - it’s not quite the first week of the Somme

Quantum Erasure

lord quackinton wrote: »

quick sum up of the position this country is in

for those who want to open up, to justify that position the hope is when we end lock down people dont die in huge numbers from the virus

but those who are pro full lock down then their position can be validated two ways
1. if we have thousands of deaths when lock down ends.
2. the lock down never fully ends

who is 'pro full lock down' that never ends? nice strawman there...

alwald

SusieBlue wrote: »

And it may be ‘rubbish’ to you but for a lot of couples they have spent a lot of money & time planning for their big day and the extreme over cautious social distancing measures are causing them a lot of concern.

I sympathise with all those who are seeing their wedding celebration cancelled, postponed or overly modified as a result of C-19, but I disagree with your statement that distancing measures are extreme...it takes one person to have the virus to infect a huge percentage of all attendees which in turn will infect their family members and so on.

Beasty

snowcat is threadbanned (and forum banned for ignoring their threadban)

Quantum Erasure

snowcat wrote: »

2k cancer patients who will die because their treatment has been cancelled or postponed

... a quick google will give you evidence
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0507/1136928-covid-19-cancer/

not seeing it in that link

"The National Cancer Control programme said it is concerned that people with symptoms of cancer are delaying seeking medical advice and has encouraged people with symptoms to contact their GP.

It said all GP and hospital diagnostic cancer services are continuing to operate, and that precautionary measures are being taken to ensure surgeries and hospitals are safe for patients."

Kermit.de.frog

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

[/B]So I ask you again to provide evidence backing up your claim that 2 thousand people will die of cancer as a result of their treatment being cancelled or postponed.

Of course the other way such a tragedy might occur (not just cancer patients) is having the health system totally overwhelmed by COVID-19 cases.

Which is what everyone is trying to avoid.

That is what this effort is all about. It's not just about the number of loses directly due to COVID-19.

NewRed2

lord quackinton wrote: »

one is a position of hope and a belief in humanity to work together
the other is a position of despair and elitism.

Elitism? Do you do stand-up comedy?
Is it elitist for parents to want their kids to be able to play in playgrounds? For the self employed to go back to work before they have no work to go back to and no way of supporting their families?
Elitist for cancer patients to return to normal treatment?
Elitist for kids to see their grandparents, couples to see each other again?
That not elitist, that's essential normal human stuff we're talking about here.
And for what? To delay the spread of a virus. Let's be clear here, it aint going away, it will still be here in 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, so all the damage you're doing to to people's families, lives, livelihoods, mental health, etc needs to be taken into account, not just dismissed as elitism.
The irony really is that the "humanity" you mention is all around us in so many forms and concerns and its been evident in all we have done for the past 2 months as well, but you can't see it and you just dismiss it and throw out a phrase like elitism.
It would be great to get your opinion if you were self-employed with a couple of kids and your business was on the line here and at the same time you were stuck at home bricking yourself about how you're going to support your family and all the while you're trying to find ways to entertain the same kids that you might no longer be able to support. Are you in that position? I doubt it going on the crap you continually post.

dalyboy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Tell one of the 1,446 grieving families how much of a 'damp squib' it is.

I should say more but I'll resist.

Yeah but what did those 1446 die of. Was it with covid 19 or of covid 19 ? If you doubt the validity of my question then please consult doctor Tony as he let the cat out of the bag on Thursday as to how they are recording the figures

Kermit.de.frog

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

who is 'pro full lock down' that never ends? nice strawman there...

No one.

I, for example, fully support the opening of building sites on the 18th and other outdoor work.

What i'm against is front loading openings that will get us inevitably in to trouble.

The more we suppress the virus the better chance we have of keeping it that way.

If we open up at too high a base it's highly likely to end in another dead end (particularly economically).

Cork Boy 53

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

not seeing it in that link

"The National Cancer Control programme said it is concerned that people with symptoms of cancer are delaying seeking medical advice and has encouraged people with symptoms to contact their GP.

It said all GP and hospital diagnostic cancer services are continuing to operate, and that precautionary measures are being taken to ensure surgeries and hospitals are safe for patients."

It most definitely isn`t there and I would be very surprised if solid evidence for such a claim exists anywhere.

ChikiChiki

Christ I would hate to be Leo or Tony now. Damned if they do damed if they don't.

Based on the latest news from Korea, Germanys easing and economic forcasts my own sentiments have changed to just open up by end of June and let it run its course. Scientists and medics are baffled by this thing and it's mutating and throwing up new stuff all the time. My confidence is gone in finding a solution by next year.

Honestly though Tony H and Leo are obviously agonising over these decisions with so many unknowns and you have clowns online firing abuse at them.

ChelseaRentBoy

Jackman25 wrote: »

Doom Mongers are really stretching when they start using the
"Tell that to the families of the dead..." argument.
Lowest common denominator stuff from Walter Mitty types who were predicting catastrophe and can't handle being wrong.

Almost as bad as the ones who can't seem to understand the lockdown avoided catastrophe.

FintanMcluskey

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Almost as bad as the ones who can't seem to understand the lockdown avoided catastrophe.

Due to the fact Sweden has not seen catastrophic death rates or ICU rates, you are going to have to work hard to convince me otherwise that the lockdown here has had any effect

ChelseaRentBoy

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Christ I would hate to be Leo or Tony now. Damned if they do damed if they don't.

Based on the latest news from Korea, Germanys easing and economic forcasts my own sentiments have changed to just open up by end of June and let it run its course. Scientists and medics are baffled by this thing and it's mutating and throwing up new stuff all the time. My confidence is gone in finding a solution by next year.

Honestly though Tony H and Leo are obviously agonising over these decisions with so many unknowns and you have clowns online firing abuse at them.

Some people just like to blame the gubberment for everything. Never voted FG in my life but some of the guff they are getting is frankly embarrassing on here.

Worst thing is if they'd taken the herd immunity approach and we'd got over run you just know the same one's moaning about the lockdown now would be giving it socks about that.

ChelseaRentBoy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Due to the fact Sweden has not seen catastrophic death rates or ICU rates, you are going to have to work hard to convince me otherwise that the lockdown here has had any effect

Oh believe me iv'e read your posts and i won't be bothering.

dalyboy

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

not seeing it in that link

"The National Cancer Control programme said it is concerned that people with symptoms of cancer are delaying seeking medical advice and has encouraged people with symptoms to contact their GP.

It said all GP and hospital diagnostic cancer services are continuing to operate, and that precautionary measures are being taken to ensure surgeries and hospitals are safe for patients

Sorry to dispute your final paragraph however I personally know of 4 people who have had cancer and get regular 6-12 month reviews done (blood tests / scans). They have all been over-due their checkups over the last 4 months and once they enquired RE dates were told the same thing, “we will back up and running as soon as the covid crisis ends” , now your guess is as good as mine when that will be. In the meantime they will just sit tight and stress it out and hope their prior conditions don’t equal future death sentences. This is a ticking time bomb and effecting real people while we are supposed to be happy sitting on our hands clapping and singing/dancing/washing etc

LiquidZeb

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Oh believe me iv'e read your posts and i won't be bothering.

So basically you have nothing to dispute what he's saying so you're to ignore it while playing it up as a half arsed attempt at claiming the moral high ground.

FintanMcluskey

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Oh believe me iv'e read your posts and i won't be bothering.

I've seen your post's and nothing so far has articulated to me that I need to immediately change my opinion either!

MrDavid1976

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Due to the fact Sweden has not seen catastrophic death rates or ICU rates, you are going to have to work hard to convince me otherwise that the lockdown here has had any effect

There are cultural reasons for why the Swedish voluntary lock down has broadly worked vs the Irish version which needed legislation and at least the threat of enforcement. Although I must say I found it uncomfortable to I see Gardai looking into people’s bags to verify they were out shopping.

I am one of those who think that the lockdown was very necessary, the right decision and has delivered results, but now think the numbers point to the easing of restrictions (noting it is a new normal and very different to May/June 2019).

LiquidZeb

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Christ I would hate to be Leo or Tony now. Damned if they do damed if they don't.

Based on the latest news from Korea, Germanys easing and economic forcasts my own sentiments have changed to just open up by end of June and let it run its course. Scientists and medics are baffled by this thing and it's mutating and throwing up new stuff all the time. My confidence is gone in finding a solution by next year.

Honestly though Tony H and Leo are obviously agonising over these decisions with so many unknowns and you have clowns online firing abuse at them.

What you've said about the severity of the mutation is utter claptrap.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-mutation-and-covid-19#The-bottom-line

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Due to the fact Sweden has not seen catastrophic death rates or ICU rates, you are going to have to work hard to convince me otherwise that the lockdown here has had any effect

Sweden has more deaths so far then all it's neighbors combined and there is no sign of that rate of deaths slowing.

While you think about that, think about this since it's all about the economy.

The United States has already said it will not be opening it's borders to countries that don't have this under control.

Would you like Ireland on that list along with Sweden?

How much damage would it do to us to have key markets closed to us in order to run some experiment with an unknown disease on the population?

FintanMcluskey

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

There are cultural reasons for why the Swedish voluntary lock down has broadly worked vs the Irish version which needed legislation and at least the threat of enforcement. Although I must say I found it uncomfortable to I see Gardai looking into people’s bags to verify they were out shopping.

I am one of those who think that the lockdown was very necessary, the right decision and has delivered results, but now think the numbers point to the easing of restrictions (noting it is a new normal and very different to May/June 2019).

Ok but what suggests Ireland's restrictions were necessary?

nthclare

I think people traveling alone, doing their own thing like fishing on a lonely headland or hiking down a rickety road wouldn't be harming anyone at this stage...

It's the 5 car full crowd or the boy's heading to the beach together who are ruining it for the lone wolves men and women who like their own company and have always social distanced themselves any how...

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sweden has more deaths so far then all it's neighbors combined and there is no sign of that rate of deaths slowing.

While you think about that, think about this since it's all about the economy.

The United States has already said it will not be opening it's borders to countries that don't have this under control.

Would you like Ireland on that list along with Sweden?

How much damage would it do to us to have key markets closed to us in order to run some experiment with an unknown disease on the population?

Ok Swedens death rate is far from rampant, twice Irelands death rate with twice the population.
Thats with kids in school and none of the restrictive policies Ireland implemented

MrDavid1976

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Christ I would hate to be Leo or Tony now. Damned if they do damed if they don't.

Based on the latest news from Korea, Germanys easing and economic forcasts my own sentiments have changed to just open up by end of June and let it run its course. Scientists and medics are baffled by this thing and it's mutating and throwing up new stuff all the time. My confidence is gone in finding a solution by next year.

Honestly though Tony H and Leo are obviously agonising over these decisions with so many unknowns and you have clowns online firing abuse at them.

It is unfortunate that in this point in time there is a Govt in place with no mandate (I voted FG) and the Parliament is ineffective. On two consecutive weeks we have had Dan O’Brien and Fintan O’Toole rightfully question the governance structures and transparency of decision making. They are not wrong on questioning as we need to have confidence that the right decisions are being made.

I think my patience went when I read a sports journalist interviewing Cillian de Gascun.

MrDavid1976

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok Swedens death rate is far from rampant, twice Irelands death rate with twice the population.
Thats with kids in school and none of the restrictive policies Ireland implemented

Yes, not a millions miles away from where we are although with a better health system so they did not have the risks we had/have.

niallo27

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sweden has more deaths so far then all it's neighbors combined and there is no sign of that rate of deaths slowing.

While you think about that, think about this since it's all about the economy.

The United States has already said it will not be opening it's borders to countries that don't have this under control.

Would you like Ireland on that list along with Sweden?

How much damage would it do to us to have key markets closed to us in order to run some experiment with an unknown disease on the population?

We were told without a lockdown, we would run out of icu beds and see tens of thousands of deaths. Sweden has less icu beds per million than us and this has not happened there. Can you least admit it should be a lot worse in Sweden, it wont kill you.