Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

LiquidZeb

Penfailed wrote: »

Are they the same (only slightly younger) kids that were going to be saddled with debt in the crash of '08? We were supposedly going to pay that off for generations. Haven't heard much about that in the past ten years.

That debts still there. All 200 billion of it. You're still paying Whopper taxes on top of USC for it so it's definitely still around.

RobitTV

Donohoe told the Dail on Wednesday the state was already approaching the upper end of his department’s budget deficit forecast - 30 billion euros or 10% of GDP.

I hope all the lockdown groupies will be on here and ready to defend the massive austerity package which will have a huge impact on public services, education, healthcare.

Tax rises, unemployment and people living in poverty who can't afford mortgage payments.

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

Ginger n Lemon

RobitTV wrote: »

Donohoe told the Dail on Wednesday the state was already approaching the upper end of his department’s budget deficit forecast - 30 billion euros or 10% of GDP.

I hope all the lockdown groupies will be on here and ready to defend the massive austerity package which will have a huge impact on public services, education, healthcare.

Tax rises, unemployment and people living in poverty who can't afford mortgage payments.

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

Not to mention spike in cancer deaths due to HSE being HSE.

Lets face it we are snookered as my teacher used to say.

LiquidZeb

RobitTV wrote: »

Donohoe told the Dail on Wednesday the state was already approaching the upper end of his department’s budget deficit forecast - 30 billion euros or 10% of GDP.

I hope all the lockdown groupies will be on here and ready to defend the massive austerity package which will have a huge impact on public services, education, healthcare.

Tax rises, unemployment and people living in poverty who can't afford mortgage payments.

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

And another generation of Irish people looking to foreign shores for opportunities, myself included.

robbiezero

Penfailed wrote: »

Are they the same (only slightly younger) kids that were going to be saddled with debt in the crash of '08? We were supposedly going to pay that off for generations. Haven't heard much about that in the past ten years.

Ah here.
You haven't heard much about austerity for the last 10 years?
What do you think has been the main cause of the housing, education, public transport, health crises, rural stagnation etc.
The crash of 2008 will reverberate for many years to come.

SusieBlue

Conte.. wrote: »

are the dentists back?

some fukkup that the government ignored the whole thing

Mine reopened on Monday, I can’t get an appointment until the 15th of June though due to increased demand.
Luckily it’s nothing too urgent so I’ll be ok waiting, feel sorry for anyone in pain though who might have to wait another few weeks yet to be seen to.

They’re definitely an essential service.

road_high

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Not to mention spike in cancer deaths due to HSE being HSE.

Lets face it we are snookered as my teacher used to say.

And cuts in health funding to screen for and treat those cancers, very sadly. But #stayathome and watch Netflix

road_high

RobitTV wrote: »

Donohoe told the Dail on Wednesday the state was already approaching the upper end of his department’s budget deficit forecast - 30 billion euros or 10% of GDP.

I hope all the lockdown groupies will be on here and ready to defend the massive austerity package which will have a huge impact on public services, education, healthcare.

Tax rises, unemployment and people living in poverty who can't afford mortgage payments.

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

They must be pinned down both here and publicly as to what public spending cuts should arise from the economic catastrophe this insanity will lead to.

RobitTV

200,000 people have been allowed to receive the €350 euro a week despite the fact they earned much less when they were working.

As usual nobody cares or seems to want to investigate this. Despite the fact giving those 200,000 people €350 euro a week is costing the state €700 million euro per WEEK.

Let's say those 200,000 people have been getting the payment for 8 weeks now. The total cost is €5.6 billion euro.

Arghus

RobitTV wrote: »

Donohoe told the Dail on Wednesday the state was already approaching the upper end of his department’s budget deficit forecast - 30 billion euros or 10% of GDP.

I hope all the lockdown groupies will be on here and ready to defend the massive austerity package which will have a huge impact on public services, education, healthcare.

Tax rises, unemployment and people living in poverty who can't afford mortgage payments.

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

No one is pretending that the lockdown isn't disastrous economically - of course it is.

But it exists for a purpose, it's not just there for the sake of it: it's to prevent the spread of an infectious and dangerous disease, which, if it was spread freely, would create an unbearable strain on public health and the health system - and those results would end up tanking the economy in the end anyway.

People who have focused their ire on the lockdown itself, rather than the actual reason it exists in the first place, are looking in the wrong direction.

And I think many of you are impossibly naive. Whether we exit the lockdown now or in two/three months time or economy is still going to be fcked either way. But at least with one of those options you stand a better chance of being able to fight the hard road ahead with less chance of being swamped by another surge of the virus.

Conte..

RobitTV wrote: »

200,000 people have been allowed to receive the €350 euro a week despite the fact they earned much less when they were working.

As usual nobody cares or seems to want to investigate this. Despite the fact giving those 200,000 people €350 euro a week is costing the state €700 million euro per WEEK.

Let's say those 200,000 people have been getting the payment for 8 weeks now. The total cost is €5.6 billion euro.

who do you want to investigate it

columbo?

RobitTV

Conte.. wrote: »

who do you want to investigate it

columbo?

Well wouldn't it be nice to know why and how taxpayers money is spent?

The only people who will be disagreeing with what i just said is those getting the 350 euro a week who were getting paid less before.

LiquidZeb

Conte.. wrote: »

who do you want to investigate it

columbo?

Welfare fraud. If someone's been pocketing cash that's not theirs to take there should be consequences for it.

Benimar

RobitTV wrote: »

200,000 people have been allowed to receive the €350 euro a week despite the fact they earned much less when they were working.

As usual nobody cares or seems to want to investigate this. Despite the fact giving those 200,000 people €350 euro a week is costing the state €700 million euro per WEEK.

Let's say those 200,000 people have been getting the payment for 8 weeks now. The total cost is €5.6 billion euro.

You have added an extra zero in there.

It’s €70m per week and €560m for 8 weeks

RobitTV

We have a bulging €30 billion euro budget deficit. Filling a €560 million euro hole would be a good start because we wouldn't have to cut something else like healthcare or education.

Benimar

RobitTV wrote: »

We have a bulging €30 billion euro budget deficit. Filling a €5.6 billion euro hole would be a good start because we wouldn't have to cut something else like healthcare or education.

Except €5.04bn of the ‘hole’ has fcuk all to do with the Covid payment.

stephenjmcd

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0521/1139906-coronavirus-active-cases/

1,807 people were considered 'active' as of Sunday night

Little further into the article
"Due to the course of the disease in people, only a percentage of the 1,807 could be considered to be potentially infectious."

RobitTV

Benimar wrote: »

You have added an extra zero in there.

It’s €70m per week and €560m for 8 weeks

Woops, my error big time there :pac: :pac:

RobitTV

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0521/1139906-coronavirus-active-cases/

1,807 people were considered 'active' as of Sunday night

Little further into the article
"Due to the course of the disease in people, only a percentage of the 1,807 could be considered to be potentially infectious."

This is really great progress

jibber5000

road_high wrote: »

The headbangers ensured it would be cancelled. Killing grannies etc. Much more powerful than any logic

Don't forget the panic re the models predicting tens of thousands of hospital admissions. It led to the discharge of Covid positive patients to nursing homes to free up hospital beds that the panickers told us we'd need.

Ironically, it was this policy that ended up killing grannies.

Conte..

jibber5000 wrote: »

Ironically, it was this policy that ended up killing grannies.

you're so sweet

bb1234567

Breezin wrote: »

In her first major interview since the Oxford study was published, she goes further by arguing that Covid-19 has already passed through the population and is now on its way out. She said:

On antibodies:
• Many of the antibody tests are “extremely unreliable”
• They do not indicate the true level of exposure or level of immunity
• “Different countries have had different lockdown policies, and yet what we’ve observed is almost a uniform pattern of behaviour”
• “Much of the driving force was due to the build-up of immunity”

On IFR:
• “Infection Fatality Rate is less than 1 in 1000 and probably closer to 1 in 10,000.”
• That would be somewhere between 0.1% and 0.01%

On lockdown policy:
• Referring to the Imperial model: “Should we act on a possible worst case scenario, given the costs of lockdown? It seems to me that given that the costs of lockdown are mounting that case is becoming more and more fragile”
• Recommends “a more rapid exit from lockdown based more on certain heuristics, like who is dying and what is happening to the death rates”

On the UK Government response:
• “We might have done better by doing nothing at all, or at least by doing something different, which would have been to pay attention to protecting the vulnerable”

On the R rate:
• It is “principally dependent on how many people are immune” and we don’t have that information.
• Deaths are the only reliable measure.

On New York:
• “When you have pockets of vulnerable people it might rip through those pockets in a way that it wouldn’t if the vulnerable people were more scattered within the general population.”

On social distancing:
• “Remaining in a state of lockdown is extremely dangerous”
• “We used to live in a state approximating lockdown 100 years ago, and that was what created the conditions for the Spanish Flu to come in and kill 50m people.”

On next steps:
• “It is very dangerous to talk about lockdown without recognising the enormous costs that it has on other vulnerable sectors in the population”
• It is a “strong possibility” that if we return to full normal tomorrow — pubs, nightclubs, festivals — we would be fine.

On the politics of Covid:
• “There is a sort of libertarian argument for the release of lockdown, and I think it is unfortunate that those of us who feel we should think differently about lockdown"
• “The truth is that lockdown is a luxury, and it’s a luxury that the middle classes are enjoying and higher income countries are enjoying at the expense of the poor, the vulnerable and less developed countries.”

Look, she is completely wrong. 0.15 % of the population of New York, New Jersey, Lombardy, Madrid, London and several other regions of the world have died of the virus. Thats a fact, not an opinion, she is off the wall wrong , even if 100% of the population of all those places had the virus(which they didn't), she is still wrong in her estimate by a factor of 15x

But posters in this thread will clutch at any straw, no matter how insane, they want lockdown over and they want it over now, any crazy with a phd pushing their view will do, no matter how contrary their views may be to the rest of the enitre scientific community who are equally intelligent and qualified. The lockdown should be ended for other valid reasons, none of the above though.

Quantum Erasure

RobitTV wrote: »

All of this will lead to a rise in mental health problems and sadly suicide.

why does this get trotted out every time?
what's the current suicide rate in Ireland? what might it conceivably rise to in the next year or two? every death is tragic, but the numbers are pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

bloodless_coup

road_high wrote: »

And cuts in health funding to screen for and treat those cancers, very sadly. But #stayathome and watch Netflix

I wonder are people actually watching much netflix, because there's bollox all good on it.

MadYaker

Arghus wrote: »

No one is pretending that the lockdown isn't disastrous economically - of course it is.

But it exists for a purpose, it's not just there for the sake of it: it's to prevent the spread of an infectious and dangerous disease, which, if it was spread freely, would create an unbearable strain on public health and the health system - and those results would end up tanking the economy in the end anyway.

People who have focused their ire on the lockdown itself, rather than the actual reason it exists in the first place, are looking in the wrong direction.

And I think many of you are impossibly naive. Whether we exit the lockdown now or in two/three months time or economy is still going to be fcked either way. But at least with one of those options you stand a better chance of being able to fight the hard road ahead with less chance of being swamped by another surge of the virus.

There are loads of idiots posting in this thread who will tell you that lockdown was never needed in the first place and that the models were wrong :rolleyes:

This whole crisis has cemented my belief that most people are idiots.

Quantum Erasure

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Welfare fraud. If someone's been pocketing cash that's not theirs to take there should be consequences for it.

I'm sure it was said at the time that if anyone had been overpaid, or was claiming fraudulently, that the revenue would be able to recover that money through income tax when people return to work?

bb1234567

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

why does this get trotted out every time?
what's the current suicide rate in Ireland? what might it conceivably rise to in the next year or two? every death is tragic, but the numbers are pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

There is an alarmingly high number of suicides in Ireland for size of our country, 352 last year, it had reduced greatly in recent decades, in 2001 509 people took their lives in ireland which is shocking

The increase during times of economic hardship being unsurprisingly massively hyped up by posters on here, during the very height of the recession suicide rates increase by 15% in Ireland, so about 50 more suicides per year than the average during recession.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/suicide-rate-rose-15-during-height-of-recession-1.2800500

jibber5000

MadYaker wrote: »

There are loads of idiots posting in this thread who will tell you that lockdown was never needed in the first place and that the models were wrong :rolleyes:

This whole crisis has cemented my belief that most people are idiots.

Show me one post on here where someone said a lockdown wasn't needed?

We had so little information about the virus that we had to do everything to avoid the worst case scenario, hence the "flatten the curve" motto which was solely to avoid our hospitals becoming overcrowded.

As we learnt more about the virus we discovered the worst case scenario thankfully wasn't going to occur. But instead of adapting our approach to mirror this change we rigidly followed our initial plan. At some point, without an announcement, the goal posts changed to eridicating the virus completely by maintaining a lockdown. We now have academics advising us to "crush the curve" by closing the country off until a vaccine is found.

All the while we are plunging ourselves deeper into a massive recession and you're calling people with legitimate concerns "idiots"?

Pathetic really.

MadYaker

jibber5000 wrote: »

Show me one post on here where someone said a lockdown wasn't needed?

We had so little information about the virus that we had to do everything to avoid the worst case scenario, hence the "flatten the curve" motto which was solely to avoid our hospitals becoming overcrowded.

As we learnt more about the virus we discovered the worst case scenario thankfully wasn't going to occur. But instead of adapting our approach to mirror this change we rigidly followed our initial plan. At some point, without an announcement, the goal posts changed to eridicating the virus completely by maintaining a lockdown. We now have academics advising us to "crush the curve" by closing the country off until a vaccine is found.

All the while we are plunging ourselves deeper into a massive recession and you're calling people with legitimate concerns "idiots"?

Pathetic really.

What are you on about? We are starting to open up and the virus is still in the community. Who's closing off the country until a vaccine is found? That won't be until next year. Leo is saying he wants international travel to resume this summer.

The reason the worst case scenario didn't happen was because the lockdown slowed the spread of the virus right down.

Here's one for you:

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think every normal country bar us knows that lockdowns have very little use if any. Everyday that Sweden doesnt report 10 000 dead proves this.

Tokyo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes Gemma, everyone's a 'monger' and it's all a conspiracy to make everyone's life a misery.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No Gemma, I'm fine.

Mod: @Kermit.de.frog - this would be a very good time to remember that your account is still on probation. Quit the smartarsery.