Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

lawrencesummers

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What is your opinion of covid mortality in Ireland? Looking at below factual evidence? Or you dont believe our own figures?

You don't have to look any further than our own Health care workers, Over 8.000 confirmed infected and only 7 have died.

Fatality rate among Irish Health care workers is less than 0.1%.

Another effort at changing the subject.

Looking at the linked up to date figures for Georgia, do you an anti lockdown merchant think they were right or wrong to lift restrictions??? Answer that truthfully and I will address your one.

Nermal

lawrencesummers wrote: »

GEORGIA MORTALITY RATE 4.4%

CURRENTLY W.H.O. MORTALITY RATE 3.6%

Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only. Scaremongering. Blocked.

Irish Aris

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And do you know why that is? Because we have leaders in this country that care about more than just money.

Trumps business interest are in property and hospitality, two areas that stand to be massively affected by this. His motivations have always been financial.

I don't disagree with you on that.
Just saying that different countries approach the situation differently so comparisons aren't very useful.
I think most countries just make it as they go and there have been instances that the reopening has been accelerated.
The frustration here (for me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any intention of accelerating the reopening even if numbers remain low. Maybe this is because they don't want to encourage people with a bank holiday weekend coming.
The reality is though that if the numbers don't spike during the 3rd week of the current phase, complacency will increase - especially with small retail stores reopening.

Ginger n Lemon

Well well

"Government plans to reopen the economy are more cautious in Ireland than time-tables that have been announced internationally which will slow economic recovery, Goodbody Stockbroker has warned.

An analysis by the firm says while Government here was quick to introduce large-scale welfare and health supports, support for businesses is lower than elsewhere. This needs to be lifted quickly, it said, including with a large government-guaranteed loan scheme for firms."

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/a-cautious-reopening-may-hinder-recovery-goodbody-39225379.html

These articles seem to be daily now.

RobitTV

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well well

"Government plans to reopen the economy are more cautious in Ireland than time-tables that have been announced internationally which will slow economic recovery, Goodbody Stockbroker has warned.

An analysis by the firm says while Government here was quick to introduce large-scale welfare and health supports, support for businesses is lower than elsewhere. This needs to be lifted quickly, it said, including with a large government-guaranteed loan scheme for firms."

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/a-cautious-reopening-may-hinder-recovery-goodbody-39225379.html

These articles seem to be daily now.

It's really great to these articles appearing now. The tide is turning.

road_high

Micky 32 wrote: »

You’d want to stay away from the sheep up there you don’t know who’s been shagging them ;-)

Don’t worry social distancing is de rigour including sheep lol 😂

lawrencesummers

Nermal wrote: »

Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only. Scaremongering. Blocked.

Ha ha ha. To much reality for some people.

Skylinehead

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes Gemma, everyone's a 'monger' and it's all a conspiracy to make everyone's life a misery.

I'll go with illuminati plot :rolleyes:

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No Gemma, I'm fine.

Would you like an award from John Waters?

Mod: Enough of the insults. Don't post here again.

LiquidZeb

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Ha ha ha. To much reality for some people.

If it's got a 3-5% fatality rate explain why out of 8,000 HSE staff infected only 7 died? It sounds more like you're addicted to misery.

RobitTV

Funny how the people who are here just trying to have a civil debate are the ones being called 'aggressive' and 'trolls' and then they throw insults at others in return.

Mic 1972

LiquidZeb wrote: »

If it's got a 3-5% fatality rate explain why out of 8,000 HSE staff infected only 7 died? It sounds more like you're addicted to misery.

it also sounds like you have little familiarity with how stats are pulled
the 3-5% is probably based on a larger sample

lawrencesummers

Irish Aris wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on that.
Just saying that different countries approach the situation differently so comparisons aren't very useful.
I think most countries just make it as they go and there have been instances that the reopening has been accelerated.
The frustration here (for me at least) is that there doesn't seem to be any intention of accelerating the reopening even if numbers remain low. Maybe this is because they don't want to encourage people with a bank holiday weekend coming.
The reality is though that if the numbers don't spike during the 3rd week of the current phase, complacency will increase - especially with small retail stores reopening.

I agree comparisons are not useful, but what is useful is the data from other countries and taking that into consideration when making our own calls, we have certain things in common with some countries

Mic 1972

RobitTV wrote: »

Funny how the people who are here just trying to have a civil debate are the ones being called 'aggressive' and 'trolls' and then they throw insults at others in return.

you weren't trying to have a civil debate until 1 page ago

RobitTV

Mic 1972 wrote: »

you weren't trying to have a civil debate until 1 page ago

You can think what you like. You are more then entitled to an opinion.

I don't agree with that comment but i have to live with it and move on.

LiquidZeb

Mic 1972 wrote: »

it also sounds like you have little familiarity with how stats are pulled
the 3-5% is probably based on a larger sample

It sounds like I'm taking a large sample of people and coming to the conclusion that it's not the black death 2.0 that it's been made out to be.

GocRh

Seanachai wrote: »

How do they enforce the quarantine for Irish citizens returning from overseas, are they just phoning people and asking them if they're at home?

I've recently returned home after getting stranded in the continent. I was called twice, 2 days and 10 days after my arrival. That was all.

Mic 1972

LiquidZeb wrote: »

It sounds like I'm taking a large sample of people and coming to the conclusion that it's not the black death 2.0 that it's been made out to be.

Can you point to a single post where people called Covid the black death 2.0?
Posts like yours add nothing to the conversation

Ginger n Lemon

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Can you point to a single post where people called Covid the black death 2.0?
Posts like yours add nothing to the conversation

I think his posts add a lot to the conversation. True mortality rate of the disease of 0.25% that has been unanimously agreed in this thread in the past does not warrant 30% unemployment or long term austerity.

It warrants caution like washing hands, getting adequate PPE to hospitals and nursing homes and maintaining social distancing, but no other measures. Especially not forced 14 day quarantine, this is the sort of thing they do in North Korea.

LiquidZeb

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Can you point to a single post where people called Covid the black death 2.0?
Posts like yours add nothing to the conversation

What did your condescending response to my initial post add to the conversation? Spare me your 'well ackshullay' moment.

Ginger n Lemon

More harsh reality.

"Ireland has one of the highest rates of Covid-19 deaths in care homes in world
Some 62% of Covid-19 deaths in Ireland relate to care homes, report says"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-has-one-of-the-highest-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-in-care-homes-in-world-1.4260140

Cocoon the elderly, give PPE to hospitals & nursing homes, open up the country and ban nursing home visitors until a vaccine is found or speed testing is implemented in nursing home receptions.

And dont forget to open up the country, fast.

vid36

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think his posts add a lot to the conversation. True mortality rate of the disease of 0.25% that has been unanimously agreed in this thread in the past does not warrant 30% unemployment or long term austerity.

It warrants caution like washing hands, getting adequate PPE to hospitals and nursing homes and maintaining social distancing, but no other measures. Especially not forced 14 day quarantine, this is the sort of thing they do in North Korea.

The mortality rate has to be determined but most experts estimate it to be at least 0.7% and possibly 1%

Mic 1972

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think his posts add a lot to the conversation. True mortality rate of the disease of 0.25% that has been unanimously agreed in this thread in the past does not warrant 30% unemployment or long term austerity.

It warrants caution like washing hands, getting adequate PPE to hospitals and nursing homes and maintaining social distancing, but no other measures. Especially not forced 14 day quarantine, this is the sort of thing they do in North Korea.

mortality rate is still unknown, whatever you agreed in here is irrelevant
I'm referring to smart comments disseminated across this thread in the last few pages that become annoying and make people with relevant opinions less interested in entering the conversation

bb1234567

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

It is indeed silly, first covid case in US in January......... do you really think theres been no covid deaths before March? Are you that naive?

gravity of situation? they had 60 000 die off flu in winter (not a whole year before you ask) of 2018. You dont seem to grasp the numbers, timelines or deaths that well at all in a perspective way.

So you say there have been many deaths before March, yet you use the official figures from March to mid may as covid death toll to compare to an entire national rate of mortality of all causes over the course of an entire year. That logic! A totally disingenous comparison, but those are the only types of comparisons you appear to be able to make, either you are incapable of making valid statistical comparisons or you are deliberately downplaying the situation through the misuse of statistics, not sure which is your issue at this stage, but it makes these discussions tedious and distracting.

Either way, thankfully you are in the tiny minority of people who are determined to convince themselves this is comparable to the number of people being killed by flu

ixoy

vid36 wrote: »

The mortality rate has to be determined but most experts estimate it to be at least 0.7% and possibly 1%

And it's far more complex than that as it varies hugely based on age and medical condition as is quite evident from our own statistics. Even if 1% of people did die from it, that in no way means you've a 1% chance.

lawrencesummers

LiquidZeb wrote: »

If it's got a 3-5% fatality rate explain why out of 8,000 HSE staff infected only 7 died? It sounds more like you're addicted to misery.

Did you look at the stats that were posted.....


No you didn’t.


And taking a sampling of 8000 people to determine something that has infected a few million is a bit dumb.

LiquidZeb

Mic 1972 wrote: »

mortality rate is still unknown, whatever you agreed in here is irrelevant
I'm referring to smart comments disseminated across this thread in the last few pages that become annoying and make people with relevant opinions less interested in entering the conversation

And what makes an opinion relevant o great one? Throwing a **** fit because someone went walking around a mountain after 2 months cooped up? Or maybe branding the majority of workers unnecessary? Or maybe lashing out at dentists and gp's? Is that relevant?

LiquidZeb

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Did you look at the stats that were posted.....


No you didn’t.


And taking a sampling of 8000 people to determine something that has infected a few million is a bit dumb.

Actually I did and as people have said before the death toll isn't 3-5% maybe you didn't spot it I said sample, I'm not saying that HSE is the whole planet. And judging by your idiotic comments about dentists, gp's and workers I'm not the dumb one.

bb1234567

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think his posts add a lot to the conversation. True mortality rate of the disease of 0.25% that has been unanimously agreed in this thread in the past does not warrant 30% unemployment or long term austerity.

It warrants caution like washing hands, getting adequate PPE to hospitals and nursing homes and maintaining social distancing, but no other measures. Especially not forced 14 day quarantine, this is the sort of thing they do in North Korea.

Interesting, havnt seen any agreement on that myself. But in this echo chamber of misinformation I guess that's totally possible it was unanimously agreed upon in this thead. Can you explain how the results of large scale antibody tests have shown that 1.2% of Spanish people who contracted the virus died then, nearly 1% of people in New York, and over 1% of people who contracted the virus in the Netherlands? Or is that distracting from your narrative.

But by all means keep clinging onto the deeply flawed Santa Clara study et al where candidates were self selected or whatever other misleading information you'd like to confuse the discussion with

Penfailed

Stark wrote: »

There's plenty of selfish behaviour on display from a lot of people but I honestly don't think going for a one off isolated walk as a treat after 10 weeks of misery counts.

If it was done chiefly for their own pleasure (as admitted), then, by definition, it was selfish. Fin.

NIMAN

vid36 wrote: »

The mortality rate has to be determined but most experts estimate it to be at least 0.7% and possibly 1%

Yet initially many would tell you it was around 5-6% mortality rate.