Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

road_high

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As much as it pains me to say it after all their hard work during this crisis and continuing work going forward the likes of nurses, doctors, gardai etc are all in line for either pay freezes or pay cuts to some extent. Any ground on pay that was made back since the crash is about to come to a quick halt.

And it's awful to even think about pay cuts for nurses etc but come October's budget it wouldn't surprise me if its hit. The gap will need to be plugged while reducing borrowing.

Of course- their pay is dependent on tax revenues. When they are hit it's inevitable their salaries are going to be in the firing line.

road_high

GooglePlus wrote: »

You're just annoyed that someone is better off than they were before this.

That increased spending power during this crisis may have made a huge difference to the impact that this will have over the next few years. If you can look past your jealousy, you might see that.

:rolleyes:

is_that_so

road_high wrote: »

Right so you won't tell me any specifics where he is wrong- spell it out to us all.

If your world view hangs on the opinion of one person you really need to expand your horizons. I have no time for Yates' aggressive grandstanding, and never did. Always found that anything he did was in worship at the altar of Yates.

Munsterman12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nobody asked for a pandemic. We asked for a proper response to a pandemic from officials who earn 150,000 + euros a year.

What did we get? 200,000 people earning MORE on covid 350 a week than BEFORE covid.

Woops. How did that happen? Idont know, they didnt have much time to think it was urgent. give me a break

Wow a whole 350 a week to live on, they must be living like kings!

Ginger n Lemon

GooglePlus wrote: »

You're just annoyed that someone is better off than they were before this.

That increased spending power during this crisis may have made a huge difference to the impact that this will have over the next few years. If you can look past your jealousy, you might see that.

Thats exactly it. I am annoyed someone is better off than they were before this and that I ll have to pay more tax in October to compensate for it.

Increased spending power doesnt count for nothing if theres huge unemployment in the state and a recession. Simple finance... Jobs create wealth and economy. Not giving average Joe 600 euros more than what he should be getting or would be getting, he ll just piss it away on pokerstars or MrGreen lol.

is_that_so

road_high wrote: »

The floor is yours- tell us why it's different now?

State of the economy, a government acting in our favour, finances, proper construction sector, unemployment and debt levels, credibility in the world markets and the EU/ECB waiting with a veritable mountain of loans and grants they are almost giving away. That's my small list!

irishlad123456

Munsterman12 wrote: »

Wow a whole 350 a week to live on, they must be living like kings!

The fact is they got money they weren’t entitled to ? How can you justify that, when the working class will be paying it back through higher tax in a few months time, bet you’ll change your tune then!!

LiquidZeb

GooglePlus wrote: »

Of course there'll be increased taxes and deductions elsewhere, that's how we'll have to pay for all this, along with the rest of the world.

Nobody asked for a pandemic but that's what we got, we just have to suck it up to find a balance between public and economic health.

What balance is there at the moment? And when will there be because going by that poll a sizeable portion of the public are in no rush to get a balance.

Ginger n Lemon

is_that_so wrote: »

State of the economy, a government acting in our favour, finances, proper construction sector, unemployment and debt levels, credibility in the world markets and the EU/ECB waiting with a veritable mountain of loans and grants they are almost giving away. That's my small list!

a reality check for each

State of economy = 28% unemployment, 14% long term unemployment, thousands of jobs lost over the last 2 months

government acting in our favour = 5 month lockdown for pubs, cinemas, gyms, 4.5 months lockdown for barbers etc

finances = department of welfare runs out of money end of next month, Government has to borrow to keep those 203 and 350 going 1st of July onwards.

proper construction sector? you ll need to define it, does it bring in 20% of tax receipts to the exchequer? or you are talking about Proper 12 whiskey? Whats proper about it?

unemployment and debt levels - well Paschal already admitted 14% long term unemployment, debt levels probably 250bn by end of the year total debt, maybe more (thats a lot btw) if interest rates move 1% unfavourably oh I better not go there

EU and ECB waiting with grants to give to us? Ah now, Friday night comedy is like 3 days away!

"EU member states Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands have stated their opposition to the French-German plan for a €500bn coronavirus recovery fund that would issue grants, calling for a loans-based approach instead."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/austria-leads-revolt-against-500bn-franco-german-eu-rescue-plan-1001447.html

Mmmmm a bit grim, unfortunately. BTW our slowest kid in the class approach to dealing with pandemic is bound to reduce foreign investment over the years to come. You'd have to be mad to invest in a country that cuts off education for children for 6 months and cancels final year exams and shuts down businesses for 4 - 5 months at will.

dundalkfc10

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

a reality check for each

State of economy = 28% unemployment, 14% long term unemployment, thousands of jobs lost over the last 2 months

government acting in our favour = 5 month lockdown for pubs, cinemas, gyms, 4.5 months lockdown for barbers etc

finances = department of welfare runs out of money end of next month, Government has to borrow to keep those 203 and 350 going 1st of July onwards.

proper construction sector? you ll need to define it, does it bring in 20% of tax receipts to the exchequer? or you are talking about Proper 12 whiskey? Whats proper about it?

unemployment and debt levels - well Paschal already admitted 14% long term unemployment, debt levels probably 250bn by end of the year total debt, maybe more (thats a lot btw) if interest rates move 1% unfavourably oh I better not go there

EU and ECB waiting with grants to give to us? Ah now, Friday night comedy is like 3 days away!

"EU member states Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands have stated their opposition to the French-German plan for a €500bn coronavirus recovery fund that would issue grants, calling for a loans-based approach instead."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/austria-leads-revolt-against-500bn-franco-german-eu-rescue-plan-1001447.html

Mmmmm a bit grim, unfortunately. BTW our slowest kid in the class approach to dealing with pandemic is bound to reduce foreign investment over the years to come. You'd have to be mad to invest in a country that cuts off education for children for 6 months and cancels final year exams and shuts down businesses for 4 - 5 months at will.

I agree cancelling the Leaving Cert will go down as one of the stupidest things they have done.

LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This post.

You can already see Minister for finance first words "due to GLOBAL PANDEMIC".....

They'll sex it up with some great title like covid recovery measures or covid solidarity deduction.

I’m not even slightly surprised to see that the majority of the country still support the lockdown. (And even want it to continue longer)

Lots of people are actually earning more with the Covid payment than they were before. And they are getting paid to do nothing. Some people are earning a bit less with the Covid payment but have much less outgoings, so better off overall.

Plenty of office workers are working from home and earning a full salary. No commuting, no childcare etc. They have the ability to save thousands in this situation.

Garda, Doctors, Nurses are living the dream. It’s quieter than ever In the hospitals and on the streets. No big events or temple bar to be policed.

Pretty much anybody that wants it will get a payment break on their mortgage or loans.

Then there are the people that are genuinely terrified. The Irish media are spreading out the fear every single day. Take Adrian Kennedy for example, every day he has curtain twitchers on moaning about others. RTÉ are happy to continue spreading doom. Tony reminds us everyday that there is a killer virus out there and the numbers are not were they need to be.

We’ve actually completely lost touch with reality in Ireland. 0 deaths yesterday and still 2.5 months until we are due to finally be close to fully open.

The situation is completely unsustainable and most people don’t seem to realise this. They’ll be the ones out protesting and moaning when the budget gets released and it’s grim for everyone.

Enjoy the holiday while it lasts folks. Reality awaits in the coming months.

Hubertj

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

a reality check for each

State of economy = 28% unemployment, 14% long term unemployment, thousands of jobs lost over the last 2 months

government acting in our favour = 5 month lockdown for pubs, cinemas, gyms, 4.5 months lockdown for barbers etc

finances = department of welfare runs out of money end of next month, Government has to borrow to keep those 203 and 350 going 1st of July onwards.

proper construction sector? you ll need to define it, does it bring in 20% of tax receipts to the exchequer? or you are talking about Proper 12 whiskey? Whats proper about it?

unemployment and debt levels - well Paschal already admitted 14% long term unemployment, debt levels probably 250bn by end of the year total debt, maybe more (thats a lot btw) if interest rates move 1% unfavourably oh I better not go there

EU and ECB waiting with grants to give to us? Ah now, Friday night comedy is like 3 days away!

"EU member states Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands have stated their opposition to the French-German plan for a €500bn coronavirus recovery fund that would issue grants, calling for a loans-based approach instead."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/austria-leads-revolt-against-500bn-franco-german-eu-rescue-plan-1001447.html

Mmmmm a bit grim, unfortunately. BTW our slowest kid in the class approach to dealing with pandemic is bound to reduce foreign investment over the years to come. You'd have to be mad to invest in a country that cuts off education for children for 6 months and cancels final year exams and shuts down businesses for 4 - 5 months at will.

how would you have dealt with it?

road_high

I'd have serious concerns about construction- who is going to invest in new offices now? Or new houses that people can't get a mortgage for? Very likely to see serious job losses coming as projects dry up. All for positivity but need realism first.

growleaves

Link

The CDC just came out with a report that should be earth-shattering to the narrative of the political class, yet it will go into the thick pile of vital data and information about the virus that is not getting out to the public. For the first time, the CDC has attempted to offer a real estimate of the overall death rate for COVID-19, and under its most likely scenario, the number is 0.26 percent. Officials estimate a 0.4 percent fatality rate among those who are symptomatic and project a 35 percent rate of asymptomatic cases among those infected, which drops the overall infection fatality rate (IFR) to just 0.26 percent — almost exactly where Stanford researchers pegged it a month ago.

Until now, we have been ridiculed for thinking the death rate was that low, as opposed to the 3.4 percent estimate of the World Health Organization, which helped drive the panic and the lockdowns. Now the CDC is agreeing to the lower rate in plain ink.

Plus, ultimately we might find out that the IFR is even lower because numerous studies and hard counts of confined populations have shown a much higher percentage of asymptomatic cases. Simply adjusting for a 50 percent asymptomatic rate would drop their fatality rate to 0.2 percent – exactly the rate of fatality Dr. John Ionnidis of Stanford University projected.

More importantly, as I mentioned before, the overall death rate is meaningless because the numbers are so lopsided. Given that at least half of the deaths were in nursing homes, a back-of-the-envelope estimate would show that the infection fatality rate for non-nursing home residents would only be 0.1 percent or 1 in 1,000. And that includes people of all ages and all health statuses outside of nursing homes. Since nearly all of the deaths are those with comorbidities.

Allinall

road_high wrote: »

I'd have serious concerns about construction- who is going to invest in new offices now? Or new houses that people can't get a mortgage for? Very likely to see serious job losses coming as projects dry up. All for positivity but need realism first.

Best laugh I've had in a long time.

Cheers.

plodder

growleaves wrote: »

Link

I was surprised to hear Kingston Mills say last night that the infection rate here could be as high as 15% of the population (though it could be a lot lower as well). So, that information is not being buried, but we need to get those random antibody tests going to find out for sure.

Ginger n Lemon

Hubertj wrote: »

how would you have dealt with it?

1st things first i wouldve banned all travel from China in January, all foreign travel by 28th of February. Until end of April. And this announcement wouldve been made 21st of January, giving people some notice to get back home.

I wouldve never shut down construction (as most countries never did)

I wouldve lifted 33% of restrictions 5th of May, 33% 25th of May and the rest 8th of June.

Covid emergency payment would have been 250 euros (its pandemic, and a recession, 350 is waaay to generous, time to tighten our belts)

Wouldve definitely dedicate hospitals (emphasis on the s) for cancer screening/early treatment etc basically keep non covid services operating.

The list of what I wouldve done differently goes on and on... and i would most definitely not keep a CMO in charge with such a shabby track record. Its like Real Madrid hiring David Moyes.... yeah good intentions but what the hell are we doing

prunudo

GooglePlus wrote: »

This place is an echo chamber.

People looking to complain will make the effort to do so online whereas those who are content keep their mouth shut and their keyboards dusty.

No more so than the echo chamber on rte or in social media.
Have to say, it was good to find a thread where people could look at things rationally or were not afraid to question the direction the government were taking.

Ginger n Lemon

growleaves wrote: »

Link

Finally. CDC smelling the coffee. Dont expect BBC to announce it though or RTE, they ll be too busy showing mass graves around the globe.

2 points

"Officials estimate a 0.4 percent fatality rate among those who are symptomatic and project a 35 percent rate of asymptomatic cases among those infected, which drops the overall infection fatality rate (IFR) to just 0.26 percent — almost exactly where Stanford researchers pegged it a month ago"

Another example of scientists proved to be correct. (not CMOs or WHOs)

"
More importantly, as I mentioned before, the overall death rate is meaningless because the numbers are so lopsided. Given that at least half of the deaths were in nursing homes, a back-of-the-envelope estimate would show that the infection fatality rate for non-nursing home residents would only be 0.1 percent or 1 in 1,000. And that includes people of all ages and all health statuses outside of nursing homes. Since nearly all of the deaths are those with comorbidities."

That in bold is an important part to understand. People with cancer dying off covid and have "covid death" marked. Driving up covid's "mortality" rate... and people start screaming and shouting oh deadly covid we need to lock away our children etc. Hysteria

CDC is very qualified and respected, given WHO shenanigans announcing 3.4% mortality for covid/ criticising banning travel from China in January... theres no comparison in credability lol.


PS Fintan with his road crash predictions to be more deadly than COVID is proved right by CDC

"The CDC estimates the death rate from COVID-19 for those under 50 is 1 in 5,000 for those with symptoms, which would be 1 in 6,725 overall, but again, almost all those who die have specific comorbidities or underlying conditions. Those without them are more likely to die in a car accident. And schoolchildren, whose lives, mental health, and education we are destroying, are more likely to get struck by lightning."

NegativeCreep

The thing about the 350 payment is it highlights how little people were paid before this. I saw supermarkets are complaining that they can’t find staff because of the Covid payment. If supermarket workers are apparently so essential, let’s start paying them a fair wage! So many people in the country are being paid pennies and it’s time for that to stop

road_high

NegativeCreep wrote: »

The thing about the 350 payment is it highlights how little people were paid before this. I saw supermarkets are complaining that they can’t find staff because of the Covid payment. If supermarket workers are apparently so essential, let’s start paying them a fair wage! So many people in the country are being paid pennies and it’s time for that to stop

Well then if you’re willing to pay significantly more for all the goods and services you but then feel free. It’s easy be a virtue signaller when it doesn’t directly effect you in the pocket. The market decides what people are paid- it’s up to them to adjust accordingly.
I knew numerous people in poorly paid employment but they’ve a terrible attitude and never took up any education or training that’s available. Always excuses

road_high

The economic good news continues
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/eason-to-lay-off-150-staff-as-it-prepares-for-june-reopening-1.4262251%3fmode=amp

Breezin

NegativeCreep wrote: »

The thing about the 350 payment is it highlights how little people were paid before this. I saw supermarkets are complaining that they can’t find staff because of the Covid payment. If supermarket workers are apparently so essential, let’s start paying them a fair wage! So many people in the country are being paid pennies and it’s time for that to stop

Absolutely agree.

But free reign on RTE yesterday for that SuperMacs 'wealth creator' miseryguts to complain that he can't get staff on the subsistence wages and conditions that he offers. No serious journalism offered, just a megaphone for employers who see opportunity in crisis.

Breezin

road_high wrote: »

The market decides what people are paid

Do you also believe in moving statues?


I thought the 'market decides' religion was exposed for the codswallop it is over a decade ago now.

Del Griffith

NegativeCreep wrote: »

The thing about the 350 payment is it highlights how little people were paid before this. I saw supermarkets are complaining that they can’t find staff because of the Covid payment. If supermarket workers are apparently so essential, let’s start paying them a fair wage! So many people in the country are being paid pennies and it’s time for that to stop

There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from getting another job if they aren't happy with their wages

road_high

Breezin wrote: »

Do you also believe in moving statues?


I thought the 'market decides' religion was exposed for the codswallop it is over a decade ago now.

Of course the market decides- you’re paid what you’re worth based on what you offer. If you’re low skilled/no education you end up in ****e paying jobs, often bitter and feeling sorry for yourself about how terrible the world is listening to SF and co telling you how awful it is.
Unlike moving statues, the world and workplace is full of these people. But yea it is all dem big evil capitalists fault.

road_high

Del Griffith wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from getting another job if they aren't happy with their wages

Usually it’s themselves as with most things in life. But it’s easier blame someone else rather than take ownership of it

Banana Republic 1

Breezin wrote: »

Absolutely agree.

But free reign on RTE yesterday for that SuperMacs 'wealth creator' miseryguts to complain that he can't get staff on the subsistence wages and conditions that he offers. No serious journalism offered, just a megaphone for employers who see opportunity in crisis.

RTE cant opposite people like him as they advertises on RTE, once bought stay bought

Banana Republic 1

plodder wrote: »

I was surprised to hear Kingston Mills say last night that the infection rate here could be as high as 15% of the population (though it could be a lot lower as well). So, that information is not being buried, but we need to get those random antibody tests going to find out for sure.

It is by the Politicians and CMO who are just ignoring it