Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Banana Republic 1

road_high wrote: »

Of course the market decides- you’re paid what you’re worth based on what you offer. If you’re low skilled/no education you end up in ****e paying jobs, often bitter and feeling sorry for yourself about how terrible the world is listening to SF and co telling you how awful it is.
Unlike moving statues, the world and workplace is full of these people. But yea it is all dem big evil capitalists fault.

Well said scrooge mc duck

Banana Republic 1

road_high wrote: »

Well then if you’re willing to pay significantly more for all the goods and services you but then feel free. It’s easy be a virtue signaller when it doesn’t directly effect you in the pocket. The market decides what people are paid- it’s up to them to adjust accordingly.
I knew numerous people in poorly paid employment but they’ve a terrible attitude and never took up any education or training that’s available. Always excuses

Well said captain anecdotal.

Banana Republic 1

road_high wrote: »

Usually it’s themselves as with most things in life. But it’s easier blame someone else rather than take ownership of it

Well said Gustav Von Armchair Physiologist.

MrDavid1976

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

a reality check for each

State of economy = 28% unemployment, 14% long term unemployment, thousands of jobs lost over the last 2 months

government acting in our favour = 5 month lockdown for pubs, cinemas, gyms, 4.5 months lockdown for barbers etc

finances = department of welfare runs out of money end of next month, Government has to borrow to keep those 203 and 350 going 1st of July onwards.

proper construction sector? you ll need to define it, does it bring in 20% of tax receipts to the exchequer? or you are talking about Proper 12 whiskey? Whats proper about it?

unemployment and debt levels - well Paschal already admitted 14% long term unemployment, debt levels probably 250bn by end of the year total debt, maybe more (thats a lot btw) if interest rates move 1% unfavourably oh I better not go there

EU and ECB waiting with grants to give to us? Ah now, Friday night comedy is like 3 days away!

"EU member states Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands have stated their opposition to the French-German plan for a €500bn coronavirus recovery fund that would issue grants, calling for a loans-based approach instead."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/austria-leads-revolt-against-500bn-franco-german-eu-rescue-plan-1001447.html

Mmmmm a bit grim, unfortunately. BTW our slowest kid in the class approach to dealing with pandemic is bound to reduce foreign investment over the years to come. You'd have to be mad to invest in a country that cuts off education for children for 6 months and cancels final year exams and shuts down businesses for 4 - 5 months at will.

One issue that will emerge is whether an element of the economic disaster was self inflicted. That we did things we did not need to do and this will feed into the markets.

Banana Republic 1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats exactly it. I am annoyed someone is better off than they were before this and that I ll have to pay more tax in October to compensate for it.

Increased spending power doesnt count for nothing if theres huge unemployment in the state and a recession. Simple finance... Jobs create wealth and economy. Not giving average Joe 600 euros more than what he should be getting or would be getting, he ll just piss it away on pokerstars or MrGreen lol.

The correct phrase is it doesn't count for anything.

Ginger n Lemon

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

One issue that will emerge is whether an element of the economic disaster was self inflicted. That we did things we did not need to do and this will feed into the markets.

Well given how quickly traditionally smart and productive countries are re opening from lockdown, it seems like there was a realisation there that self inflicted economic damage is way out of proportion.

I mean if you follow what Germans/Danish/Czechs/Austrians do you ll rarely go wrong. Their economies, healthcare, GDP, quality of life is miles ahead of any other place I can think of.

Banana Republic 1

irishlad123456 wrote: »

The fact is they got money they weren’t entitled to ? How can you justify that, when the working class will be paying it back through higher tax in a few months time, bet you’ll change your tune then!!

Shur the working class are only unedumacted scum anyway

amadangomor

Feel like wanting to break certain restrictions now. Not because I feel like it is time to do so but because of the element I see who have broken it all along and are acting like there are no reason to obey the restrictions.

What's the point of me being disciplined when you see a dozen kids playing on the green with no distancing and parties going on, 6/7 women chatting outside houses all within a metre of each other.

Friend was talking about a garden party in the next week or two and **** it think I will go and get bleddered.

hmmm

amadangomor wrote: »

Feel like wanting to break certain restrictions now. Not because I feel like it is time to do so but because of the element I see who have broken it all along and are acting like there are no reason to obey the restrictions.

What's the point of me being disciplined when you see a dozen kids playing on the green with no distancing and parties going on, 6/7 women chatting outside houses all within a metre of each other.

Friend was talking about a garden party in the next week or two and **** it think I will go and get bleddered.

I thought the same for a while, but then realised that the majority of people are doing their best to adhere to the restrictions and understand how important it is for us all to take on some personal responsibility to do our bit for the community. The people who aren't are very obvious, but they are a small minority - just look at the poll today where people were asked how quickly we should lift restrictions. If most of us follow the rules set by public health we'll be ok, we don't need 100% compliance.

Hubertj

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

1st things first i wouldve banned all travel from China in January, all foreign travel by 28th of February. Until end of April. And this announcement wouldve been made 21st of January, giving people some notice to get back home.

I wouldve never shut down construction (as most countries never did)

I wouldve lifted 33% of restrictions 5th of May, 33% 25th of May and the rest 8th of June.

Covid emergency payment would have been 250 euros (its pandemic, and a recession, 350 is waaay to generous, time to tighten our belts)

Wouldve definitely dedicate hospitals (emphasis on the s) for cancer screening/early treatment etc basically keep non covid services operating.

The list of what I wouldve done differently goes on and on... and i would most definitely not keep a CMO in charge with such a shabby track record. Its like Real Madrid hiring David Moyes.... yeah good intentions but what the hell are we doing

Some valid suggestions there. This situation does show up how bad our public services are. Blame for that doesn’t just sit with successive governments. Unions have to shoulder much responsibility for there actions and continuous resistance to change and improve. Government is acting on advice provided by their department which is too conservative and badly planned. A few more weeks and the general public will start to ignore the plan and phases as they need to work. Creche’s will have to take matters into their own hands. Schools will need to develop their own plans. No use waiting in departments to provide guidance that’s not fit for purpose.

Breezin

road_high wrote: »

Of course the market decides- you’re paid what you’re worth based on what you offer. If you’re low skilled/no education you end up in ****e paying jobs, often bitter and feeling sorry for yourself about how terrible the world is listening to SF and co telling you how awful it is.
Unlike moving statues, the world and workplace is full of these people. But yea it is all dem big evil capitalists fault.

Textbook myopic. Only welfare 'scroungers' are in your sights. Corporate welfare is non-existent.
Every time you turn on the radio there's some whinging corporate market believer looking for a state subsidy, and more than likely getting it. If it actually were up to the market, they'd be out of business. So spare us the personal responsibility morality play.

bush

hmmm wrote: »

I thought the same for a while, but then realised that the majority of people are doing their best to adhere to the restrictions and understand how important it is for us all to take on some personal responsibility to do our bit for the community. The people who aren't are very obvious, but they are a small minority - just look at the poll today where people were asked how quickly we should lift restrictions. If most of us follow the rules set by public health we'll be ok, we don't need 100% compliance.

The only reason people want to carry on lockdown is cos they like sitting on their hole's.

YFlyer

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not really known why some get a worse infection any more than they can determine some groups as being more at risk of that phenomenon. Think a link to some proper evidence is required.

It is one theory that some virologist suggest. More research is still required though.

Alison Sinclair, a virologist at Sussex University, said, "A person with a high viral load has more virus particles than one with a low load. We do not yet know what impact viral load has on the symptoms of a person infected with Covid-19. Whether there is a link between a high viral load and worse outcomes is going to be important to find out."

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/13/covid-young-people

Ulysses Gaze

Breezin wrote: »

Textbook myopic. Only welfare 'scroungers' are in your sights. Corporate welfare is non-existent.
Every time you turn on the radio there's some whinging corporate market believer looking for a state subsidy, and more than likely getting it. If it actually were up to the market, they'd be out of business. So spare us the personal responsibility morality play.

To be honest, if it is a mid-sized to large entity, excluding airlines, and they can't go 2/3 months of a decline without going bust or needing a bailout, they aren't being well run in the first place.

road_high

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

To be honest, if it is a mid-sized to large entity, excluding airlines, and they can't go 2/3 months of a decline without going bust or needing a bailout, they aren't being well run in the first place.

Businesses often live to mouth. Even good ones. They don’t have piles of cash bolted up some place. This is not a philosophical argument it’s the reality of running a business.
Unlike those dependent on the teat of the taxpayer of course- how long will they survive without (weekly) handouts?

road_high

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Well said scrooge mc duck

They've been triggered- good to see!

Naos

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

1st things first i wouldve banned all travel from China in January, all foreign travel by 28th of February. Until end of April. And this announcement wouldve been made 21st of January, giving people some notice to get back home.

So just to get this straight, if you were in charge, on the 21st of January you would have banned all travel from China immediately and all international travel to Ireland was to cease by February 28th, essentially stating that Irish citizens should come home or they will not be allowed into the country from March.


On the 21st of January, when worldwide there was less than 300 known cases and just six people had died.
That is some foresight you would have had.

MrDavid1976

road_high wrote: »

Businesses often live to mouth. Even good ones. They don’t have piles of cash bolted up some place. This is not a philosophical argument it’s the reality of running a business.
I like those dependent in the teat of the taxpayer of course- hoe long will they survive without (weekly) handouts?

Well said.

For some businesses they are trying to trade through this. Others have had their whole business collapse yet they still have fixed and variable costs. They may have manoeuvre for a 10% drop but there are mid sized businesses (hotel chains for instance) who cannot trade through this and may be 12 months before they are back to full capacity (if they can open at all). Then you have seasonal businesses who make 80% of their profits over the May to September period.

MrDavid1976

Naos wrote: »

So just to get this straight, if you were in charge, on the 21st of January you would have banned all travel from China immediately and all international travel to Ireland was to cease by February 28th, essentially stating that Irish citizens should come home or they will not be allowed into the country from March.


On the 21st of January, when worldwide there was less than 300 known cases and just six people had died.
That is some foresight you would have had.

We all saw Cheltenham a mile off and already by end February my business had cancelled travel to a new from Ireland.

Ginger n Lemon

Naos wrote: »

So just to get this straight, if you were in charge, on the 21st of January you would have banned all travel from China immediately and all international travel to Ireland was to cease by February 28th, essentially stating that Irish citizens should come home or they will not be allowed into the country from March.


On the 21st of January, when worldwide there was less than 300 known cases and just six people had died.
That is some foresight you would have had.

I know, a bit controversial.

I am like Ginger and Trump :pac: so on 21 Jan announce that all travel from China to be banned 31 Jan onwards (10 days) and all travel from abroad apart from NI to be banned by 28th of Feb (38 days notice).

If this was done, we may have had less than 50 deaths like New Zealand. But i appreciate hindsight is a wonderful thing. But, why not do this then say 20th of Feb? When covid was developing in Europe like Northern Italy etc. ban travel from China 29 Feb (9 days notice) and all foreign travel to be banned 15 March (24 days).

We didnt do anything lol a third of Dublin Airport passengers kept flying in without even filling out a form for months (although I appreciate low number in total)

Ginger n Lemon

While we are on the topic of travel, Tony H will not like this

"GERMANY TO ALLOW TRAVEL TO 31 EUROPEAN COUNTRIES

From June 15, the German government wants to partially lift the worldwide travel warning, news agency DPA reported.

According to a draft paper, the country will permit travel to 31 European countries, provided the state of the pandemic allows it.

In addition to all EU countries, Germans will be able to travel to the United Kingdom, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

The German Cabinet could adopt the draft at Wednesday’s meeting."

Perhaps a sign of things of come? Germany is truly most important nation in EU in terms of all things EU

Muscles Schultz

bush wrote: »

The only reason people want to carry on lockdown is cos they like sitting on their hole's.

This is true. There’s the lazy and also a number of social deviants who appear normal during the lockdown. A normal society doesn’t suit these incel types.

Hubertj

i think people need to realize and accept that the social/physical distancing requirements are not sustainable medium term. This will become evident once retail, restaurants and bars reopen. Creches and schools as well.
People will need to exercise common sense (those that can) in order to get by.

plodder

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

It is by the Politicians and CMO who are just ignoring it

I don't think so. They have a plan to test 5000 people for antibodies. That will give us some idea of the number of people who were infected. They wouldn't be doing that if they wanted to keep the real infection rate hidden.

stephenjmcd

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

While we are on the topic of travel, Tony H will not like this

"GERMANY TO ALLOW TRAVEL TO 31 EUROPEAN COUNTRIES

From June 15, the German government wants to partially lift the worldwide travel warning, news agency DPA reported.

According to a draft paper, the country will permit travel to 31 European countries, provided the state of the pandemic allows it.

In addition to all EU countries, Germans will be able to travel to the United Kingdom, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

The German Cabinet could adopt the draft at Wednesday’s meeting."

Perhaps a sign of things of come? Germany is truly most important nation in EU in terms of all things EU

No surprise there. June 15th seems to be a date mentioned alot by European countries. The more opening up the less likely we are to see travel restrictions continually imposed.

road_high

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Well said.

For some businesses they are trying to trade through this. Others have had their whole business collapse yet they still have fixed and variable costs. They may have manoeuvre for a 10% drop but there are mid sized businesses (hotel chains for instance) who cannot trade through this and may be 12 months before they are back to full capacity (if they can open at all). Then you have seasonal businesses who make 80% of their profits over the May to September period.

The unbridled contempt for business is mind blowing but fairly typical of Ireland. Anyone that wants to be successful is to be torn down and admonished as a corporate stooge akin to Satan.
Welfare class and low paid civil servant types are poster children as hard done by salt-a-d-earth heroes. It's a big problem as it instils a poor attitude to work and self improvement/reliance. As evidenced by the petty sniping at business on here.

stephenjmcd

Hubertj wrote: »

i think people need to realize and accept that the social/physical distancing requirements are not sustainable medium term. This will become evident once retail, restaurants and bars reopen. Creches and schools as well.
People will need to exercise common sense (those that can) in order to get by.

Its already evident. First morning I've got the bus into work, had been driving in whenever I needed to be in the office and the bus was well over the social distance capacity

Ginger n Lemon

Hubertj wrote: »

i think people need to realize and accept that the social/physical distancing requirements are not sustainable medium term. This will become evident once retail, restaurants and bars reopen. Creches and schools as well.
People will need to exercise common sense (those that can) in order to get by.

Truly not sustainable in light of below

"Publicans say they face 87% reduction in capacity with 2m social distancing"

"A report published by the Licensed Vintners Association (LVA) and Vintners Federation of Ireland (VFI) today outlines how standing capacity in a 100m squared area of a premises would be reduced to 12.5% under the current guidelines"

Donall O’Keeffe said the World Health Organization guideline of one metre social distancing would still reduce capacity significantly, but it would “at least allow more pubs and other hospitality businesses to be capable of trading in the shorter term”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/bar-capacity-social-distancing-5107838-May2020/

12.5% capacity not even worth opening the door for lol? talk about no V shape recovery... they need to reduce dis silly 2m down to 1m.

Banana Republic 1

plodder wrote: »

I don't think so. They have a plan to test 5000 people for antibodies. That will give us some idea of the number of people who were infected. They wouldn't be doing that if they wanted to keep the real infection rate hidden.

Will that be before or after the mythical 100000 tests.

Banana Republic 1

road_high wrote: »

The unbridled contempt for business is mind blowing but fairly typical of Ireland. Anyone that wants to be successful is to be torn down and admonished as a corporate stooge akin to Satan.
Welfare class and low paid civil servant types are poster children as hard done by salt-a-d-earth heroes. It's a big problem as it instils a poor attitude to work and self improvement/reliance. As evidenced by the petty sniping at business on here.

You must only be new here.