Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I think the general point of contention with people is the lack of acknowledgement by the taoiseach, holohan and Harris that we as a country have done fantastically, but it's time to speed things up. Every other country in Europe has gotten the ball rolling while we seem dead set on being late to the party.

What are you talking about? We have been commended at every turn by the powers that be, with the added proviso that we need to be careful and keep things in check until we can be certain that all is going smoothly. We won't know that until early next week. It's almost as if there was a plan in place to monitor these things with specific, measurable factors in place to determine the next steps.....

Hurrache

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Ok so. USA Today, Washingpost and several others have all ran stories about the number of grocery workers who have died from Coronavirus............You either lied or were ill informed.

What sort of cognitive dissonance must a person have to completely blow up their own argument that someone is lying?

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are you talking about? We have been commended at every turn by the powers that be, with the added proviso that we need to be careful and keep things in check until we can be certain that all is going smoothly. We won't know that until early next week. It's almost as if there was a plan in place to monitor these things with specific, measurable factors in place to determine the next steps.....

So you don't think dragging things out to August is a bit of a piss take? Harris and holohan are more keen on berating than praising people from where I'm standing.

TheCitizen

dalyboy wrote: »

This comment makes me so proud to be a pro-economic, strong leadership admiring , pseudoscience denier.

For pseudoscience denier read anti intellectual. For strong leadership admiring read easily lead yokel, for pro-economic read gobshíte trying to make out that those supporting the effort to deal with Covid are anti economic. The economy would be banjaxed as well if covid wasn't tackled efficiently

Ginger n Lemon

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So you don't think dragging things out to August is a bit of a piss take? Harris and holohan are more keen on berating than praising people from where I'm standing.

He wants to wait and see. Other countries on the planet have different circumstances so no point looking at them or the last 9 days of phase 1 here.

yawn

sporina

Irish Aris wrote: »

I read June 10th in one of the articles that did the rounds yesterday (also mentioning employees made redundant), so straight after the implementation of phase 2.

Edit: this is the article I referred to:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/eason-to-lay-off-150-staff-as-it-prepares-for-june-reopening-1.4262251

june 1st

"Irish-owned books retailer Eason plans to cut 150 jobs and put some other staff on a four-day week from June 1st as it looks to reduce its costs by 30 per cent in response to the financial hit from the coronavirus lockdown of the economy."

Arghus

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So you don't think dragging things out to August is a bit of a piss take? Harris and holohan are more keen on berating than praising people from where I'm standing.

There's zero chance of this being dragged out until August if case numbers keep dropping.

Hurrache

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Your right it’s not turning it’s actually been turned.

Shows pretty much over. No more Netflix and post office

Time to move on and get back to business.

Is it denial you're suffering from, or just can't comprehend how surveys work?
I think it's only yourself that you're trying to convince at this rate.

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

There's zero chance of this being dragged out until August if case numbers keep dropping.

Promise?

Numbers were falling for a while yet homestores got shafted 3 weeks later than original due date. Not looking good.

bush

They seem set on dragging this out

Goldengirl

the kelt wrote: »

It’s funny but people are already changing their rhetoric without even noticing it.

In the space of a week posters who are very much in favour of the lockdown timetable as it stands were preaching from the altar of “the definite second wave” to it being possible, maybe etc etc.

It’s funny watching posters extol the virtues of being careful about what might happen when they previously described anyone worried about increased cancers or possible deaths from suicide as nothing but shrill panic merchants. And they don’t even get the irony.

One thing that has shone through this whole thing for me is that empathy for a death from Covid is through the roof whilst a non Covid related death is cast aside as “meh, that’s life”

I don't agree that people who are concerned about easing restrictions too fast are not worried about increasing cancer or disregard non Covid deaths!
That is an example of how posters on this thread have lost the run of themselves, ranting about anyone that disagrees with them.

Hurrache

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I think the general point of contention with people is the lack of acknowledgement by the taoiseach, holohan and Harris that we as a country have done fantastically,

They have acknowledged it several times.

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Promise?

Numbers were falling for a while yet homestores got shafted 3 weeks later than original due date. Not looking good.

If case numbers keep falling, then waiting until August won't happen.

Arghus

Hurrache wrote: »

They have acknowledged it several times.

In every single interview, multiple times, often as the first sentence.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

He wants to wait and see. Other countries on the planet have different circumstances so no point looking at them

Correct, gold star for you.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

or the last 9 days of phase 1 here.

Given it takes two weeks for any meaningful data to become apparent, yes, the last 9 days are meaningless for the moment. You're arguing against your own stance here. The last 9 days stats came about from the measures which were put in place up to the 5th of May, which was full lockdown. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from that is that pull lockdown works. We are testing the water to see if partial lockdown works. I'm not sure how people cannot a) see this or b) disagree with it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It does indeed, but we're comparing Apples and oranges. It is more prudent to see if our approach has had the same effect on our population given our specific set of circumstances. It's not rocket science, lads. We started to lift the restrictions, let's wait and see if it has impacted us negatively before we take the next step.

Have we got a different strain? There is lots of evidence that social distancing will maintain or slightly lower your current level of infection. Ala Sweden, who never locked down but held steady at a high but manageable level, or Austria/ Denmark etc since they eased restrictions. Our lockdown has gotten us to the level of the Austria's and Denmark's. And all the evidence is we can maintain at that level with distancing alone. Even if this is not the case, the R0 will not return to the levels it was at in March as the measures that will remain in place put a significant break on spread. This means we will have lots of time to react should an increase be observed. If you dont believe this is the case, well it questions the rationale on placing restrictions in place to begin with, as they do not have some magical effect. They just reduce opportunities for infection.

dalyboy

TheCitizen wrote: »

For pseudoscience denier read anti intellectual. For strong leadership admiring read easily lead yokel, for pro-economic read gobshíte trying to make out that those supporting the effort to deal with Covid are anti economic. The economy would be banjaxed as well if covid wasn't tackled efficiently

It was never tackled efficiently. All they needed to firewall the elderly and vulnerable. Then leave the under 65’s to stay working and society continues as normal. Instead what they did was banjax a nation for generations with bad debts and FAILED to protect the people we were meant to be protecting originally. The entire lockdown idea was and is beyond an abomination.

Arghus

dalyboy wrote: »

It was never tackled efficiently. All they needed to firewall the elderly and vulnerable. Then leave the under 65’s to stay working and society continues as normal. Instead what they did was banjax a nation for generations with bad debts and FAILED to protect the people we were meant to be protecting originally. The entire lockdown idea was and is beyond an abomination.

Define vulnerable.

setanta1984

Arghus wrote: »

I think to deny we had a first wave of the disease in the country is pretty silly.

Agreed, it does nobody any favours to post stuff like that.

Arghus wrote: »

There's zero chance of this being dragged out until August if case numbers keep dropping.

It sounds like you are largely in agreement with the non-windup posters here so then, that the current roadmap is totally unreasonable based on the state of things here and throughout Europe as things stand?
That's all people here are saying for the most part - a reasonable plan in line with everyone else in our continent would dissipate the sheer frustration people have. Or any kind of confidence that they may do as you suggest they will - they don't project that at all and it gets people down and frustrated.

dalyboy

dalyboy wrote: »

It was never tackled efficiently. All they needed to firewall the elderly and vulnerable. Then leave the under 65’s to stay working and society continues as normal. Instead what they did was banjax a nation for generations with bad debts and FAILED to protect the people we were meant to be protecting originally. The entire lockdown idea was and is beyond an abomination.

Short of locking the elderly in their home, that tactic would be doomed to failure. The more it spread in society the chances of keeping it out of care homes etc fall until it becomes an impossibility. Remember, the unsaid fact in all of this is that it wasn't visitors that introduced the virus to care homes. It was staff

TheCitizen

dalyboy wrote: »

It was never tackled efficiently. All they needed to firewall the elderly and vulnerable. Then leave the under 65’s to stay working and society continues as normal. Instead what they did was banjax a nation for generations with bad debts and FAILED to protect the people we were meant to be protecting originally. The entire lockdown idea was and is beyond an abomination.

Spoken like a true Covid denier with all the hallmarks of a Trump fanboy. Has Gemma Doherty and John Waters taken over Boards.ie now that their idiotic waste of time court case failed?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Have we got a different strain? There is lots of evidence that social distancing will maintain or slightly lower your current level of infection. Ala Sweden, who never locked down but held steady at a high but manageable level, or Austria/ Denmark etc since they eased restrictions. Our lockdown has gotten us to the level of the Austria's and Denmark's. And all the evidence is we can maintain at that level with distancing alone. Even if this is not the case, the R0 will not return to the levels it was at in March as the measures that will remain in place put a significant break on spread. This means we will have lots of time to react should an increase be observed. If you dont believe this is the case, well it questions the rationale on placing restrictions in place to begin with, as they do not have some magical effect. They just reduce opportunities for infection.

Not a different strain, but a different set of circumstances. Comparison with any other country is futile. The only real comparison is with our own figures and data from before the lifting early this month versus after the lifting. We're not there yet. Give it until after the weekend and we will be. I'm not sure how many other ways this can be said.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a different strain, but a different set of circumstances. Comparison with any other country is futile. The only real comparison is with our own figures and data from before the lifting early this month versus after the lifting. We're not there yet. Give it until after the weekend and we will be. I'm not sure how many other ways this can be said.

You just lost all credibility there. Have you ever left Ireland? Have you been abroad? people abroad have 2 arms and 2 legs like us in case you are wondering.

No wonder you think Leo & co doing a top job lol.

Would love to hear your thoughts about suspension of non covid hospital services for the last 10 weeks, are we doing the right thing there? Other countries have not suspended such services before you ask, not that you ll ask you dont look abroad it seems.

stephenjmcd

Harris tells the Dáil that R is now indicated to be between 0.4 & 0.5

Irish Aris

sporina wrote: »

june 1st

"Irish-owned books retailer Eason plans to cut 150 jobs and put some other staff on a four-day week from June 1st as it looks to reduce its costs by 30 per cent in response to the financial hit from the coronavirus lockdown of the economy."

Thanks Sporina, looks like the article references 2 different dates.


Irish-owned books retailer Eason plans to cut 150 jobs and put some other staff on a four-day week from June 1st as it looks to reduce its costs by 30 per cent in response to the financial hit from the coronavirus lockdown of the economy.

Having shut its shops on March 24th, Eason plans to open four to six of its company-operated outlets on June 10th, with a view to opening the rest by August, subject to the continued opening up of the economy and consumer demand. It has written to all of its landlords to seek rent reductions.

snowcat

Deleted User wrote: »

Short of locking the elderly in their home, that tactic would be doomed to failure. The more it spread in society the chances of keeping it out of care homes etc fall until it becomes an impossibility. Remember, the unsaid fact in all of this is that it wasn't visitors that introduced the virus to care homes. It was staff

Not sure what you are trying to say here? How do you know it was staff that introduced the virus? By the same reckoning are all the HSE staff the ones that brought the virus to hospitals? Are you also trying to say that it was inevitable that the virus got into care homes

Hurrache

TheCitizen wrote: »

Spoken like a true Covid denier with all the hallmarks of a Trump fanboy. Has Gemma Doherty and John Waters taken over Boards.ie now that their idiotic waste of time court case failed?

The argument you'll be given is that sure we didn't even have a first wave, there was never a need for a lock down.

dalyboy

Deleted User wrote: »

Short of locking the elderly in their home, that tactic would be doomed to failure. The more it spread in society the chances of keeping it out of care homes etc fall until it becomes an impossibility. Remember, the unsaid fact in all of this is that it wasn't visitors that introduced the virus to care homes. It was staff

Omg. And that’s exactly what happened even with the lockdown. So my point stands.

dalyboy

Arghus wrote: »

Define vulnerable.

Anyone with underlined illnesses.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You just lost all credibility there. Have you ever left Ireland? Have you been abroad? people abroad have 2 arms and 2 legs like us in case you are wondering.

Do they have the same population density?
The same societal norms?
The same methods of recording deaths and infection rates?
The same trust in and adherence to Government advice and guidelines?
The same capacity for dealing with a sudden resurgence?
The same infrastructure in place to deal with everything?

How is any of that lacking in credibility?

Take a look around you, next time you're out. People can't even stand on a sticker on the ground, FFS. If there was a massive relaxation of restrictions, there is a sizeable portion of the population who would turn around and go "F*ck it, I'm gonna do what I want" which would possibly set us back weeks. Take your time, do it right, do it once.