Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Goldengirl

snowcat wrote: »

No one is complaining about the rain jacket. What most are complaining about is it is now 30 degrees and Sunny and we are melting in our rain jacket while waiting for the next rain shower.

Clever reply.
But hot days can have thunderstorms.

RollieFingers

Quoting the Ron Paul Institute, this thread has officially jumped the shark!

LiquidZeb

Hurrache wrote: »

You can't argue against your own argument. And you can only argue against what was said.

You're managing to do the opposite of both those things.

Only you can understand your own comprehension.

So you called attention to American grocers why? This is getting really tedious.

Hurrache

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So you called attention to American grocers why? This is getting really tedious.

It is, especially considering, as I pointed and spelled out over, that it was in a response to another poster asking for us to read stories on this from outside of Ireland, which you repeatedly fail to acknowledge or understand. You then took this, added 1 to it, and came out with some random result.

manniot2

Deleted User wrote: »

Fixed that for you there chief, anything to have a go at someone who is vastly more qualified to give this advice than a randomer on a chat form, though, eh?

Is he vastly more qualified than those making decisions at WHO level or experts in other countries that have given the go ahead for governments to open up? Can you tell me what he knows that they dont?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Lord Holohan has made it clear its a guideline not a rule, with each person free to implement what they feel is appropriate to their business

Given how the guidance is misunderstood, misinterpreted and misapplied it's little surprise to see him stick to a very narrow script.

KrustyUCC

No surprise with Holohan not changing

Guidance only is a load of BS when he keeps the advice the same as his initial interpretation

The government will need to grow a pair and change the 'guidance' asap

The economy and livelihoods of many depend on it

is_that_so

manniot2 wrote: »

Is he vastly more qualified than those making decisions at WHO level or experts in other countries that have given the go ahead for governments to open up? Can you tell me what he knows that they dont?

Other countries are at different stages and it is very much each to their own. There's no one size fits all in this.

LeeroyJ.

Mask need to be made mandatory for indoor activities such as shopping. Why we haven't adopted this after many successful countries have is still one of the greatest mysteries to me. I know Bob will pop in here now saying "I saw this chap wearing it wrong the other day" but it's better to have 2 people wearing it wrong and 8 people wearing it right to help reduce the spread.

manniot2

is_that_so wrote: »

Other countries are at different stages and it is very much each to their own. There's no one size fits all in this.

I keep hearing this "other countries are at different stages". Were we the last country in the western world to get this? Because we are the last exiting restrictions.

is_that_so

KrustyUCC wrote: »

No surprise with Holohan not changing

Guidance only is a load of BS when he keeps the advice the same as his initial interpretation

The government will need to grow a pair and change the 'guidance' asap

The economy and livelihoods of many depend on it

Plenty of the economy has opened up that I can see, especially in small shops. Phase two is only 7 working days away. We'll see where we are at the end of next week.

ElTel

Arghus wrote: »

The lockdown curbed the spread of the disease.

I'm prepared to change my mind if you show me absolutely reliable rock solid evidence to the contrary.

Of course it did. The debate is now whether washing hands, masks, common sense regarding social distancing including time spent close to people indoors/outdoors talking/shouting etc. is enough.

Covid19 outbreaks can now be pounced on. Whether it's petering out or not naturally, travel limits for example seem ott.

Ginger n Lemon

manniot2 wrote: »

I keep hearing this "other countries are at different stages". Were we the last country in the western world to get this? Because we are the last exiting restrictions.

Absolutely brilliant.

mloc123

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Mask need to be made mandatory for indoor activities such as shopping. Why we haven't adopted this after many successful countries have is still one of the greatest mysteries to me. I know Bob will pop in here now saying "I saw this chap wearing it wrong the other day" but it's better to have 2 people wearing it wrong and 8 people wearing it right to help reduce the spread.

WHAT spread?

is_that_so

manniot2 wrote: »

I keep hearing this "other countries are at different stages". Were we the last country in the western world to get this? Because we are the last exiting restrictions.

UK hasn't exited, Spain is just doing so. That different stages refers to the points of the disease, i.e. peak , not when it emerged first. It seems to take 50-70 days for it to be controlled although some cases still pop up in countries supposedly clear of it. Our peak was about mid-April but since then we've had the ongoing care home issues and the meat plant cases.

LeeroyJ.

mloc123 wrote: »

WHAT spread?

It only takes a couple of infected people in supermarkets to start another wave of infections. You don't really believe the Virus has been eradicated from the island for good, do you?

stephenjmcd

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Mask need to be made mandatory for indoor activities such as shopping. Why we haven't adopted this after many successful countries have is still one of the greatest mysteries to me. I know Bob will pop in here now saying "I saw this chap wearing it wrong the other day" but it's better to have 2 people wearing it wrong and 8 people wearing it right to help reduce the spread.

The spread is virtually nothing at the moment. The mask debate has been had time and time again. Yes they may be suitable in certain settings but we've also gotten this far without them being mandatory.

And again you use supermarkets as the example, there is no proof of widespread spread via supermarkets as proven by the supermarkets stats on employees who've become ill.

If you want to wear a mask by all means do if you dont then dont and don't judge anyone who doesn't wear one.

is_that_so

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

It only takes a couple of infected people in supermarkets to start another wave of infections. You don't really believe the Virus has been eradicated from the island for good, do you?

Supermarkets don't seem to have been sources, other more more confined locations have been considerably worse.

splashuum

People working from home could be dragged back to the office sooner than we thought.

Ginger n Lemon

Goldengirl wrote: »

Words fail me , indeed !
You are quoting from Ron Paul Institute, one of the most right wing , antisemite , anti Muslim, anti everything normal , and you expect yo be taken seriously?

This is absolutely ridiculous and disgraceful.

I am quoting from CDC - Centers for disease control and prevention. its a top, top government agency, just because Ron Paul institute posted it has nothing to do with CDC study that is below. BELOW LINK

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Below is the average covid mortality rate CDC study has found in 5 different scenarios across ALL aged groups.

Overall: 0.002

Overall: 0.002

Overall: 0.010

Overall: 0.010

Overall: 0.004

If you read the study in the link that would be great.

PS if you can think of a more credible body than CDC when it comes to infectious disease please let us all know.

fr336

mloc123 wrote: »

WHAT spread?

So you don't want a lockdown. You don't want masks. You don't want any prevention whatsoever. Great stuff!

fr336

is_that_so wrote: »

Supermarkets don't seem to have been sources, other more more confined locations have been considerably worse.

Well the other confined locations have been closed since March and yet the virus still spreads in every country....wonder how.

is_that_so

fr336 wrote: »

So you don't want a lockdown. You don't want masks. You don't want any prevention whatsoever. Great stuff!

Yours must be a remarkable mind to glean so much information from just two words!

is_that_so

fr336 wrote: »

Well the other confined locations have been closed since March and yet the virus still spreads in every country....wonder how.

It's very transmissible.

stephenjmcd

More bad news of AerLingus staff. Must be difficult for them when they see the rest of Europe talking about travel again and here nothing

https://twitter.com/ingridmileyRTE/status/1265671952745758725?s=19

mloc123

is_that_so wrote: »

Supermarkets don't seem to have been sources, other more more confined locations have been considerably worse.

This ^^

Based on my local Tesco where I see the same 20-30 people working for the past 2 months... I read that Aldi had a total of 10 employees infected? The idea that going to a supermarket is some deeply risky activity and requires gloves and a mask is laughable.

Goldengirl

Arghus wrote: »

So we should cocoon the over 65s. Okay, not a small amount of people.

And those with underlying conditions. Equally, not a small amount of people.

What about those at increased risk from the disease. The obese? Diabetics? Asthmatics? Children and adults with developmental issues?

There's a lot of people out there that qualify as vulnerable.

Now, we'll have to keep these people isolated, presumably indefinitely - because if nobody else is under any form of restrictions or lockdown then we won't be making efforts really to suppress the disease in the community at large, so it should be spreading pretty freely, until we're all immune - which could take an indeterminate period of time - or maybe there is a vaccine, which is not guaranteed. So the risk to those cocooning is a lot greater and more prolonged if the spread in the wider community is completely unmitigated.

And what about the people who come into close contact with all these vulnerable people. Family members who live under the same roof? Carers? Nurses? Doctors? They'll have to be careful too because they'll be living and working out there in the community, where there won't be any containment measures on the virus. Maybe they should cocoon too, considering that their contact with the vulnerable is risky, but unavoidable.

And hospitals could still be a risky proposition, considering that they too more than likely will have covid floating around in them, considering that it's out there in the community.

It's quite complicated to just isolate the "vulnerable". They arent some tiny group, that's easily defined, that has no contact with outside of that group.

It's an easy solution on the surface: "isolate the vulnerable!", but when you start to look at it you realise how complicated it is and potentially never ending - because if you're letting everyone else get on with it you aren't suppressing the virus, so it'll continue to circulate, maintaining the level of risk to those in vulnerable groups.

Alternatively, you could try to eliminate community transmission of the virus by placing restrictions on place on everyone, but for a much shorter period of time. And you'll save a few extra lives too.

Agree with all of the above.
Except the person you are replying to is a professed Trump follower so he won't be listening.Most likely injecting himself with Dettol or dealing with a misplaced UV probe .
And everything you have said is readily available for all to read and discover themselves for the last month or two, if they had the inclination.
Not undermining you, it is well written and thought out , it's just the intended audience I have issues with .
Those who thank your post are those who have agreed with the scientific advice , but a lot of posters on this thread for their own reasons, are either loathe to accept any of this or are disingenuously ignoring it , and come up with articles from the odd off the wall scientist whose against the accepted wisdom of other scientists .

KrustyUCC

is_that_so wrote: »

Plenty of the economy has opened up that I can see, especially in small shops. Phase two is only 7 working days away. We'll see where we are at the end of next week.

I think we will get to phase two alright but the shambles of moving homeware in phase one doesn't give me much confidence in the government

Plan is much much too slow looking at other countries

Not much hope of them bringing forward much they way they're talking

fr336

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The spread is virtually nothing at the moment. The mask debate has been had time and time again. Yes they may be suitable in certain settings but we've also gotten this far without them being mandatory.

And again you use supermarkets as the example, there is no proof of widespread spread via supermarkets as proven by the supermarkets stats on employees who've become ill.

If you want to wear a mask by all means do if you dont then dont and don't judge anyone who doesn't wear one.

If everyone wore masks the show would be back on the road far quicker. Yes you can't wear a mask everywhere e.g. in a pub or restaurant but wearing them everywhere else in public would slow down this thing so much it would shrink to nothing. Maybe I'm more cautious living in the hotbed that is the UK. I don't understand how people can be gagging to lift lockdown then on the other hand don't want to do this very simple thing.

cajonlardo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

. You cannot say there has been zero infections with any degree of certainty, its just not possible

Youv are going to seriously suggest that several hundred working in close proximity can have covid pisitive amongst them without a single person displaying symtoms, getting sick or passing the virus to family or friends?

Btw, rhe home helps I refer to were definitely all tested and negative. ( and are you naive enough to believe that home helps. Visiting multiple clients in the elderly age group did not infect clients?)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.
2. Good hand and respiratory hygiene amongst front line staff is one thing, however there is a minority of Irish people who flatly couldn't give a fiddler's fart about anybody, not even themselves or their kids, and leaving the fate of a couple of hundred lives in their hands is not okay with me.

And now you are suggesting you are naive enough to believe that people as ignorant as you suggest are presently obeying the guidelines?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.
4. Nobody is prevented from enjoying the sunshine, you're talking bollocks there I'm afraid

I did not say anyone is preventing me from enjoying the sun. I said dont expect me not to enjoy the sun or go to work because people posting in these threads dont want to themselves.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.

5. Stick with the plan, see what the figures are like on the weekend and progress from there. Truth of the matter is the government have, for the most part, played a blinder. People won't give them the credit they're due because of party affiliation or woke anti-gubbermint nonsense or whatever, but they should be commended

What?
Are we talking about the same government that hadnt the wherewithal to bring our troops home from overseas after their tour of duty ended but gave a nod and a wink to their friends cheap labour coming in from Bulgaria?

The same government wont let our cyclists cycle further than 5 km from home but any rider from norrh of the border can spin all day ilong in. the hills of Donegal?

The self same goverment who are o.k with foreign based ethnic travellers arriving on a ferry and driving anywhere they please?
Who allow certain groups conduct funerals and gatherings in whatever manner they please?

Same government who cannot work longer than two hours in the dail but are fine and dandy with above mentioned pharmaceutical workers engaging in twelve hour shifts? Or Naval patrols for weeks on end?

Same goverment who back to the hilt the management of the hse ?The same management that stood over dying women and bullied them into signing non disclosure agreements?

The same government whose health minister told us to remember there. are 18 other Covids?

If you feel safer in lockdowm no one is stopping you .i personally believe decisions were made for the right reasons in the early days but have since proved to be more restrictive than necessary.