Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Hurrache

stephenjmcd wrote: »

More bad news of AerLingus staff. Must be difficult for them when they see the rest of Europe talking about travel again and here nothing

https://twitter.com/ingridmileyRTE/status/1265671952745758725?s=19

"Talking"?

There is no widespread travel around the world.

stephenjmcd

Hurrache wrote: »

"Talking"?

There is no widespread travel around the world.

Oh yeah I must have just dreamed that most European countries were talking about reopening their borders in June. How silly of me while we must remain without non essential travel.

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1265664552194265088?s=19

is_that_so

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I think we will get to phase two alright but the shambles of moving homeware in phase one doesn't give me much confidence in the government

Plan is much much too slow looking at other countries

Not much hope of them bringing forward much they way they're talking

I've been of the opinion that the rest of the phases will not move as slowly. It will be very hard to hold any public health line if we get to zero cases in June and still three phases to go. I think 2 & 3 will merge and I can see a lot of Phase 5 being open in Phase 4 if not earlier.

Hurrache

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Oh yeah I must have just dreamed that most European countries were talking about reopening their borders in June. How silly of me while we must remain without non essential travel.

But you just said it again, 'talking', there's nothing much in terms of action.

Airline staff worldwide are being laid off unfortunately.

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1265664552194265088?s=19

That's actually quite exciting after all this time!

Doctor Jimbob

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I think we will get to phase two alright but the shambles of moving homeware in phase one doesn't give me much confidence in the government

Plan is much much too slow looking at other countries

Not much hope of them bringing forward much they way they're talking

I'd mostly agree tbh despite generally being for the more cautious approach. The homeware thing was a joke and we'd really need to look at bringing stuff forward. There's no harm at all in keeping things somewhat slow and seeing how things progress in other countries, but if things continue to go well in other countries I can't see the logic in keeping at the current pace.

More effort needs to go into enforcing social distancing and less on keeping things closed. There was a crowd of at least 20 teenagers outside here earlier without a thing being done about it. No harm to them, I'd probably have tried the same at that age, but it must be very frustrating to be a business owner being forced to stay closed when the likes of that is going on.

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Another sensible post, hard to disagree with much of it. The only thing I'd add is in reference to the bit in bold. We don't know yet what the evidence will be. It is promising so far, yes, but the whole point of the timeline is to see the effect of any previous relaxation on the infection rate. I think this is the 5th time I've said it, but come early next week we will have a much clearer picture.

For the record, I think the restrictions should and will be lifted in a much quicker timeframe than indicated. It is clear that the phases were staggered in such a way as to cover a worst case scenario. They are under-predicting the recovery with a hope of over-delivering it. A trick that politicians have used since time immemorial.

Yes. And to add , it has been said quite a few times by all Tony Holohan, Colm Henry , and Varadkar that none of the phases are set in stone but dependent on the rise or fall in Ro and case numbers . So it might be quicker, or it might be slower, which makes sense to most.

stephenjmcd

Hurrache wrote: »

But you just said it again, 'talking'.

Airline staff worldwide are being laid off unfortunately.

Yes European countries are all talking about reopening borders, is that hard to understand ? Yet here we're not having that discussion. Talking is resulting in action, Spain July 1st, Italy June, Germany June. Do I need to continue

Yes staff are being laid off but many not all, will be back in work come June/July, AerLingus staff have just been laid off or had everything cut until end of August at the moment, and our own rules around travel are contributing to that.

Doctor Jimbob

is_that_so wrote: »

I've been of the opinion that the rest of the phases will not move as slowly. It will be very hard to hold any public health line if we get to zero cases in June and still three phases to go. I think 2 & 3 will merge and I can see a lot of Phase 5 being open in Phase 4 if not earlier.

I was of that opinion a few weeks ago but the u-turn on homewares doesn't fill me with confidence.

KrustyUCC

is_that_so wrote: »

I've been of the opinion that the rest of the phases will not move as slowly. It will be very hard to hold any public health line if we get to zero cases in June and still three phases to go. I think 2 & 3 will merge and I can see a lot of Phase 5 being open in Phase 4 if not earlier.

I hope you're right but I doubt it

Goldengirl

RollieFingers wrote: »

Quoting the Ron Paul Institute, this thread has officially jumped the shark!

Yep!

is_that_so

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I was of that opinion a few weeks ago but the u-turn on homewares doesn't fill me with confidence.

One learns not to fixate on the silly things - bigger shops, bigger possible numbers I guess.

Goldengirl

Hurrache wrote: »

It is, especially considering, as I pointed and spelled out over, that it was in a response to another poster asking for us to read stories on this from outside of Ireland, which you repeatedly fail to acknowledge or understand. You then took this, added 1 to it, and came out with some random result.

Ignore him, it's gone and he is trolling you.
He has nothing else to offer .

Hurrache

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yes European countries are all talking about reopening borders, is that hard to understand ? Yet here we're not having that discussion. Talking is resulting in action, Spain July 1st, Italy June, Germany June. Do I need to continue

Yes staff are being laid off but many not all, will be back in work come June/July, AerLingus staff have just been laid off or had everything cut until end of August at the moment, and our own rules around travel are contributing to that.

But border aren't really closed though, there's restrictions, of which others, including the UK are saying the'll enforce. Main stumbling point is that the consumer demand may not necessarily come rushing back even if all restrictions are removed.

Queue from window hatch selling pints from Monroes round the corner past Vinny’s takeaway on upper Dominic street in Galway. Excellent social distancing in evidence

Goldengirl

manniot2 wrote: »

Is he vastly more qualified than those making decisions at WHO level or experts in other countries that have given the go ahead for governments to open up? Can you tell me what he knows that they dont?

Well, for a start he knows more about the Irish situation .
And the country is opening up !

AdamD

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/holohan-tells-ministers-no-immediate-change-to-two-metre-rule-1.4263954

Surely its up to the ministers, not Holohan.

Pitch n Putt

Hurrache wrote: »

Is it denial you're suffering from, or just can't comprehend how surveys work?
I think it's only yourself that you're trying to convince at this rate.

Surveys?? I mentioned nothing about surveys.

Your getting confused fighting the pro lockdown battle on your own.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/holohan-tells-ministers-no-immediate-change-to-two-metre-rule-1.4263954

Surely its up to the ministers, not Holohan.

It is, it is advice which they'd rather follow for now. Quite right to raise the question of how long.

Ginger n Lemon

AdamD wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/holohan-tells-ministers-no-immediate-change-to-two-metre-rule-1.4263954

Surely its up to the ministers, not Holohan.

Officially in a dictatorship.

"The chief medical officer Tony Holohan has told ministers that there will be no immediate change to the current two-metre rule for physical distancing.

Dr Holohan held a meeting with the Cabinet on Wednesday afternoon where the issue was raised by a number of ministers."

He just told no change. He doesnt want to change it. Thats it.

What is this I dont even...

SusieBlue

is_that_so wrote: »

One learns not to fixate on the silly things - bigger shops, bigger possible numbers I guess.

Not all homeware shops are the size of Ikea.
They wrote off the revenue that would be earned by smaller homeware shops as collateral damage in order to keep Ikea closed for another few weeks, which doesn’t even make sense because with these stores now closed over 2 months, the demand will be massive when they reopen.
Delaying reopening for another 3 weeks will just increase the demand further.

Goldengirl

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is absolutely ridiculous and disgraceful.

I am quoting from CDC - Centers for disease control and prevention. its a top, top government agency, just because Ron Paul institute posted it has nothing to do with CDC study that is below. BELOW LINK

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Below is the average covid mortality rate CDC study has found in 5 different scenarios across ALL aged groups.

Overall: 0.002

Overall: 0.002

Overall: 0.010

Overall: 0.010

Overall: 0.004

If you read the study in the link that would be great.

PS if you can think of a more credible body than CDC when it comes to infectious disease please let us all know.

No , your original post linked to the Ron Paul Institute . It is an article where those CDC statistics are quoted for the writers own ends.
I read no further and will not give any further heed, if I ever did , to any more posts from you, as you have now shown what you truly believe in.
It is the height of bad taste to quote from such a disreputable source and try to pass it off disingenuously , as a believable and unbiased source of information

stephenjmcd

Hurrache wrote: »

But border aren't really closed though, there's restrictions, of which others, including the UK are saying the'll enforce. Main stumbling point is that the consumer demand may not necessarily come rushing back.

There isn't another country in the EU planning at this moment to implement restrictions to the level of the UK seeing as you used them as an example. Every country is reducing or completely getting rid of restrictions, whereas we aren't.

We have dept of foreign affairs warnings not to travel, a travel restriction of 5k. So it is essentially impossible based off our current restrictions to travel, so yes our own restrictions are contributing and are a stumbling block because with them then consumers haven't even got a choice to make.

Consumer demand will come back with time. I've a few airline vouchers to use myself.

I'm not quite sure what your argument is ? Our restrictions are contributing to Aerlingus have to lay off staff and reduce others even further, that's just a fact. Its laid out in their statement.

LiquidZeb

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Surveys?? I mentioned nothing about surveys.

Your getting confused fighting the pro lockdown battle on your own.

Yeah don't waste your time trying to understand him. He might as well be posting in Arabic he's so hard to decipher.

is_that_so

SusieBlue wrote: »

Not all homeware shops are the size of Ikea.
They wrote off the revenue that would be earned by smaller homeware shops as collateral damage in order to keep Ikea closed for another few weeks, which doesn’t even make sense because with these stores now closed over 2 months, the demand will be massive when they reopen.
Delaying reopening for another 3 weeks will just increase the demand further.

Sure but we'll deal with it in the same way we have to date, all that social distancing.

SusieBlue

Goldengirl wrote: »

Well, for a start he knows more about the Irish situation .
And the country is opening up !

Yes, it’s beginning to open up, having been closed for just over 11 weeks. We won’t be fully opened up for another 10 weeks. That’s 21 weeks total, over 5 months.

That’s what the problem is. 5 months of industries being completely closed.

LiquidZeb

Goldengirl wrote: »

No , your original post linked to the Ron Paul Institute .

The Ron Paul institute quoted the CDC that's what he's saying

Jackman25

Goldengirl wrote: »

Agree with all of the above.
Except the person you are replying to is a professed Trump follower so he won't be listening.Most likely injecting himself with Dettol or dealing with a misplaced UV probe .
And everything you have said is readily available for all to read and discover themselves for the last month or two, if they had the inclination.
Not undermining you, it is well written and thought out , it's just the intended audience I have issues with .
Those who thank your post are those who have agreed with the scientific advice , but a lot of posters on this thread for their own reasons, are either loathe to accept any of this or are disingenuously ignoring it , and come up with articles from the odd off the wall scientist whose against the accepted wisdom of other scientists .

What is THE scientific advice?
Is our scientific advice the same as other countries in Europe that are easing restrictions much faster?

Ginger n Lemon

Goldengirl wrote: »

No , your original post linked to the Ron Paul Institute .

That posted CDC study.

Do you know CDC?