Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

RobitTV

Wow - Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has rubbished claims by Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary that the Irish people are being punished with one of the strictest lockdown regimes in Europe

Asked if the outspoken Ryanair chief was correct to say Irish people are being penalised by one of Europe’s strictest lockdowns, Dr Holohan replied: “No.”

Questioned if the millionaire businessman was correct in saying a quarantine has no basis in science or public health, he also answered: “No.”

Michael O'Leary should put his money where his mouth is and launch a legal challenge.

bb1234567

thebaz wrote: »

I said some experts said it may be at .1 , you called me ignorant , thats what I took issue with -

I believe it to be ignorant behaviour to post the beliefs of scientists claiming this virus may have an IFR of 0,1% when it is literally an impossibility based on the number of deaths in several regions where the virus is widespread and has killed greater than that percentage of the total population in those areas.

Youre talking about how you are mad that the media scare mongered with false info at the beginning of the outbreak, yet you are spreading misinformation yourself

thebaz

Idbatterim wrote: »

ItS a likely inde in a lifetime opportunity for hoolahan and his ilk. Of course he wants to milk it fir all its worth. In his defence, hes being charged with reducing covid deaths . So no wonder hes hellvebt on that it's the politicians who should be taking the broader implications into account, but are still in cloud cuckoo land

but people suffering non-Covid illness dont seam to matter in the World of Tony and Simon , its time to look at the bigger picture and stop just living in a lockdown world that worked up until a couple of weeks ago - things have moved on - and other (a lot) peole are now suffering with other serious issues.

Arghus

JRant wrote: »

Very interesting link, thanks for sharing.
Looks like there are very real differences between neighbouring countries, which will make for very interesting research in years to come.

Our Z score looks like we have very few excess deaths here thankfully.

Our z score isn't as all that bad, but some are...wow...

England is unbelievable.

stephenjmcd

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

That may well be the last cabinet meting with the current government in place. I doubt they will rock the boat before exiting the stage.

Could well be, big week ahead in both senses.

There'll still be a few ministers left I'd say, can't see Harris getting the boot for example but we could see a different approach in handling this from a new government potentially

Arghus

RobitTV wrote: »

Wow - Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has rubbished claims by Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary that the Irish people are being punished with one of the strictest lockdown regimes in Europe

Asked if the outspoken Ryanair chief was correct to say Irish people are being penalised by one of Europe’s strictest lockdowns, Dr Holohan replied: “No.”

Questioned if the millionaire businessman was correct in saying a quarantine has no basis in science or public health, he also answered: “No.”

Michael O'Leary should put his money where his mouth is and launch a legal challenge.

You'd wonder if Michael O' Leary has some of kind of vested interest in the whole affair...

Jim Root

road_high wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn about his sensibilities. Is he doing it for free or something? If it's such a chore for him, push off and let someone (mildly competent) do it.

This mans medical insights has saved countless deaths. Get off the stage will ya.

thebaz

bb1234567 wrote: »

I believe it to be ignorant behaviour to post the beliefs of scientists claiming this virus may have an IFR of 0,1% when it is literally an impossibility based on the number of deaths in several regions where the virus is widespread and has killed greater than that percentage of the total population in those areas.

It wasnt some random scientist - it was a Professor from Oxford university that I quoted - so I suppose they are really ignorant - This ****ing place

bb1234567

thebaz wrote: »

It wasnt some random scientist - it was a Professor from Oxford university that I quoted - so I suppose they are really ignorant - This ****ing place

Look you really don't seem to understand that it is impossble for their view to be correct in this instance. That is what I take issue with, not who they are, but rather that you won't accept that this intelligent person had an incorrect opinion that has literally been discredited by real world proof.

Do you think that qualified people are never wrong on any issue, ever?

thebaz

bb1234567 wrote: »

It doesn't matter an iota who said it. He is wrong, antibody tests, and the actual percentage of people who have died from the virus in a given population, both show that his opinion is completely wrong. And no I am not a professor, nor am I nearly as smart as him, but it doesn't mean there is not existing proof which enitrely discredits this opinion. Actual reality trumps an opinion even if its the opinion of the greatest most intelligent mind on earth, sorry to say.

The Professor in Theoretical Epidemiology is wrong and some randomer on boards is right - and for the second time it is a woman - now good night.

ElTel

Arghus wrote: »

It's far worse than flu.

I'll link to this again:

https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

If you look at their graph measuring excess mortality across all ages. It measures excess mortality for 2018, 2019 and what we have had so far for 2020. These people measure death rates from flu across Europe.

The line on the graph representing 2020 is absolutely huge compared to the two previous years.

I could argue that excess mortality for the past 15 months (before Covid19 began) is running at 60% of the 2018 number. So there is a larger pool of vulnerable people for SARS2 to attack.

I know some flu seasons are milder than others and the effectiveness of the vaccines can vary and equally that this new coronavirus is nasty, but if it hangs around for years we'll get better at dealing with it.

Countries health systems will extend their flu protocols (which apparently have been ignored) and use PPE....

I suppose I'm calling for less fear. Far worse than flu?...how long is a piece of string? I think we can ease the restrictions quicker.

If it returns in October I worry for our health system. A modern health care system capable of dealing with pandemics every six years probably needs pre and post hospital diagnosis centres but that's for discussion elsewhere.

bb1234567

thebaz wrote: »

The Professor in Theoretical Epidemiology is wrong and some randomer on boards is right - and for the second time it is a woman - now good night.

Youre right, this professor who only speaks gospel must be correct that at most 1 in 1000 people out of those who contract this virus will die when 1 in every 500 people living New York citizens has already died from this

I will never question the views of a professor again even if there is proof that has invalidated their opinion, because professors know all and can never be wrong as I have learnt this evening from you.

Arghus

ElTel wrote: »

I could argue that excess mortality for the past 15 months (before Covid19 began) is running at 60% of the 2018 number. So there is a larger pool of vulnerable people for SARS2 to attack.

I know some flu seasons are milder than others and the effectiveness of the vaccines can vary and equally that this new coronavirus is nasty, but if it hangs around for years we'll get better at dealing with it.

But, surely if the most recent flu season actually killed less people and therefore left more potential victims for Covid to kill - which it then duly killed - then is that not further proof again that Covid is considerably more lethal in comparison.

thebaz

bb1234567 wrote: »

It doesn't matter an iota who said it. He is wrong, antibody tests, and the actual percentage of people who have died from the virus in a given population, both show that his opinion is completely wrong. And no I am not a professor, nor am I nearly as smart as him, but it doesn't mean there is not existing proof which enitrely discredits this opinion. Actual reality trumps an opinion even if its the opinion of the greatest most intelligent mind on earth, sorry to say.

Can you explain then why the virus has only killed
4,534 in India a population of 1.5 billion ????


actually don't - Im done here.

bb1234567

thebaz wrote: »

Can you explain then why the virus has only killed
4,534 in India a population of 1.5 billion ????

Until there is an antibody test determining how prevalent it has become in India, it is irrelevant, and is a super irrelevant point to bring up in to relation to what we were just discussing. The number means nothing on it's own without context

ElTel

Arghus wrote: »

But, surely if the most recent flu season actually killed less people and therefore left more potential victims for Covid to kill - which it then duly killed - then is that not further proof again that Covid is considerably more lethal in comparison.

Well it favours a higher IFR estimate now that I think would get lower as the year goes on.

Arghus

ElTel wrote: »

Well it favours a higher IFR estimate now that I think would get lower as the year goes on.

How so?

Is that assuming that IFR will drop dramatically because of the high initial rate?

nocoverart

Summer of 2019 : brain dead sheep watching Love Island

Summer of 2020: brain dead sheep who are now experts in Virology.

Penfailed

LiquidZeb wrote: »

What does Brazil have to do with ireland?

What does Sweden have to do with Ireland?

JRant

RobitTV wrote: »

Wow - Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has rubbished claims by Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary that the Irish people are being punished with one of the strictest lockdown regimes in Europe

Asked if the outspoken Ryanair chief was correct to say Irish people are being penalised by one of Europe’s strictest lockdowns, Dr Holohan replied: “No.”

Questioned if the millionaire businessman was correct in saying a quarantine has no basis in science or public health, he also answered: “No.”

Michael O'Leary should put his money where his mouth is and launch a legal challenge.

I'd prefer if O'Leary actually refunded the 10's of thousand Irish customer his company is trying to stiff than mount a legal challenge.

JRant

Arghus wrote: »

Our z score isn't as all that bad, but some are...wow...

England is unbelievable.

It really is, they are being hammered in England with this.

stephenjmcd

Another stark warning for the government or new government when it comes to getting businesses back running. If this reopening isn't sped up at some point we might not have that much to come back to. Businesses that managed to ride out the last recession were still only getting back on their feet.

Irish times:
"The Republic’s economy is on track to shrink by 12.4 per cent this year, marking the largest annual slump in its history, as the Covid-19 pandemic wreaks havoc on households, firms and government finances, according to the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI)."

JRant

bb1234567 wrote: »

Youre right, this professor who only speaks gospel must be correct that at most 1 in 1000 people out of those who contract this virus will die when 1 in every 500 people living New York citizens has already died from this

I will never question the views of a professor again even if there is proof that has invalidated their opinion, because professors know all and can never be wrong as I have learnt this evening from you.

1 in every 500 is 0.2%, that's a long way from the 1% figure you were mentioning.

I've looked at some sites and the 0.2% figure seems to be correct. 198 deaths per 100,000 in NYC, so around 0.198%.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109867/coronavirus-death-rates-by-age-new-york-city/

zerosugarbuzz

JRant wrote: »

I'd prefer if O'Leary actually refunded the 10's of thousand Irish customer his company is trying to stiff than mount a legal challenge.

“No” isn’t really good enough. He should ha e been made to elaborate on what justifies the “No”. The people have moved on in great numbers from the lockdown, the people are out but the services are still closed. Tony’s lockdown is over someone should tell him.

Had a few beers and a bit of munch and pizza with two of my dearest buddies that I haven't seen since late Feb/early March out on my patio yesterday evening in the nice weather. We had feck all to talk about really because there is feck all going on! Everything had been covered in the group chats. Was great to see the lads though.

stephenjmcd

Snotaul Goodman wrote: »

Had a few beers and a bit of munch and pizza with two of my dearest buddies that I haven't seen since late Feb/early March out on my patio yesterday evening in the nice weather. We had feck all to talk about really because there is feck all going on! Everything had been covered in the group chats. Was great to see the lads though.

Good stuff, few of us planning a BBQ for next weekend when everyone is off work. Probably be 6 of us in one of the lads back gardens all going well

stephenjmcd

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

“No” isn’t really good enough. He should ha e been made to elaborate on what justifies the “No”. The people have moved on in great numbers from the lockdown, the people are out but the services are still closed. Tony’s lockdown is over someone should tell him.

Think he knows it really. He got very defensive yesterday evening, even mentioning how anyone who travels abroad for non essential travel is breaking the law and this was in reference to travel in July. Last time I checked he wasn't in a position to tell anyone the law of the land.

They can pull out as many surveys as they want backing themselves up, doesn't change what people are seeing out and about

road_high

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Think he knows it really. He got very defensive yesterday evening, even mentioning how anyone who travels abroad for non essential travel is breaking the law and this was in reference to travel in July. Last time I checked he wasn't in a position to tell anyone the law of the land.

They can pull out as many surveys as they want backing themselves up, doesn't change what people are seeing out and about

Yes he gets extremely dismissive and combative at the hint of anyone with the audacity to question his tack and advice.
Varadkar and Harris are still relatively young and reckon they’re just not able for this lad. It may take a Michael Oleary or other seasoned business men and politicians to get him brushed aside, they’ve no fear of anyone.
Major national mistake appointing someone like this to this role- it’s not as if the efforts to control virus he’s overseen are anything to crow about.
Now is the time for some pragmatic flexibility. Holohan is just stuck in school principal mode, a role no one ever appointed him to be

road_high

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

“No” isn’t really good enough. He should ha e been made to elaborate on what justifies the “No”. The people have moved on in great numbers from the lockdown, the people are out but the services are still closed. Tony’s lockdown is over someone should tell him.

Indeed. Disgraceful answering at this stage in the game, ranks of dismissive arrogance. “I know best so I don’t need to justify myself”. I’d love to see him taken down now

stephenjmcd

road_high wrote: »

Yes he gets extremely dismissive and combative at the hint of anyone with the audacity to question his tack and advice.
Varadkar and Harris are still relatively young and reckon they’re just not able for this lad. It may take a Michael Oleary or other seasoned business men and politicians to get him brushed aside, they’ve no fear of anyone.
Major national mistake appointing someone like this to this role- it’s not as if the efforts to control virus he’s overseen are anything to crow about.
Now is the time for some pragmatic flexibility. Holohan is just stuck in school principal mode, a role no one ever appointed him to be

I just thought yesterday was the most defensive that he'd gotten so far maybe things got heated in the meeting with cabinet, who knows. But at the same time covering his own arse by saying we only provide the information to government it's up to them what they do. He seems fairly stuck in his ways yet leaks from government are that Leo wants to get things moving quicker if the data allows, ultimately it's going to be his decision so long as he remains in office.

After listening to Michael Martin yesterday and I didn't vote FF, I dont think the CMO would have it straight forward with him, now maybe it's all for show and political point scoring but he seemed a bit more up for a proper debate.