Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Jackman25

prunudo wrote: »

Big change in the narrative the last couple days, much more talk on the radio and social media about opening up quicker. It seems people are coming around to what has been said on this thread the last 3 weeks.
Even had a mate acknowledge that enough is enough after hearing it on the radio this morning albeit he still maintains Leo and the lads are doing a great job.

Where this thread leads, Ireland follows :D

RugbyLad11

Micky 32 wrote: »

He’s doing his best to get around it. I think there are proposals on the table for the cabinet ( so i read on the RTE app), he seems optimistic to get it through.

I really doubt he will get it through at this stage. He has been trying for months at this stage.

If he couldn't get it through at our worst stage how can he possibly get it while the rest of Europe is opening back up and our cases are so low

plodder

Widescreen wrote: »

An analogy I use here is that if you take all the cars off the road for six months you won't have any crashes, but the underlying problem doesn't get resolved because when you get back on the road the crashes will resume. But you do try to make it as safe as possible to drive.

With this virus if they just get that testing sorted (3 days is a joke) I think we can get on with relative normality.

I think our leaders are really making a mess of this now though, after decent enough initial reaction to the problem.

Testing in 24-48 hours, including initial query to GP. Then the contact tracing. Where are we with that? It needs to be able to scale up to deal with outbreaks, which we have to assume will happen. Where is the app? If the government can't deliver all the above, then for me that is the reason why we aren't opening up.

ZX7R

Micky 32 wrote: »

He’s doing his best to get around it. I think there are proposals on the table for the cabinet ( so i read on the RTE app), he seems optimistic to get it through.

Making the two weeks of mandatory quarantine went to the cabinet last week it did not get through only the filling out of the form got passed.
After that he stated that he would look into the legality of making it mandatory.
Under questioning yesterday he stated it appears to be legally unattainable

Ginger n Lemon

ZX7R wrote: »

You might be interested to know Poland are entering there final stage in open up on Saturday 30 may.
From Saturday masks will not be required outside anymore.
From the 6th of June
Cinemas,
Theatre's,
Swimming pools,
And qyms will reopen.
Gatherings of 150 will also be permitted
Prime minister
Mateusz Molawiecki stated.
He expects to have there economy return to fully functioning by July at the latest.

Damn. Ireland has a lot of Polish people that will be flying to Poland for their summer holidays, bringing back covid to us. Unless we ban all of them from returning or quarantine them in a government facility upon arrival we cant be sure that covid is eradicated from the community.

The sort of thing Tony Hitler would say.

prunudo

ZX7R wrote: »

Making the two weeks of mandatory quarantine went to the cabinet last week it did not get through only the filling out of the form got passed.
After that he stated that he would look into the legality of making it mandatory.
Under questioning yesterday he stated it appears to be legally unattainable

Sound to me that Harris doesn't like it if he doesn't get his way.

Ginger n Lemon

seamus wrote: »

And on a journal article, that's no mean feat. It goes to show that online platforms are considerably out of whack with the man on the street. The actual approval ratings are likely higher than that again, despite the vocal minorities online.

Thanks for providing the article. Great comment there

"The public have been brainwashed into thinking they have done a good job because RTE and the papers have given them a free ride. Anybody that looks at the data with critical thinking will know they did a poor job and are making it worse now by delaying opening up. We are 11-15 billion in debt, hospitals empty, no cancer tests. Hospitality sector shut, 2m distance being imposed without evidence of effectiveness. Low community spread leaving us vulnerable when the second wave comes (6% v sweeden 25%).
People refusing to return to work because the €350 for sunbathing is more attractive.
Harris thinking there were 18 previous outbreaks, varadkar getting his belly tickled at a bbq in the phoenix park. Our press writing about Cummings instead."

growleaves

We’re all in the big numbers now: Adding up the damage Britain’s Covid-19 policies have caused

Imperial College haven’t had a good war, and after their performance in other recent epidemics perhaps they will now pass their mantle onto another team. Preferably one that can code to levels fit for publication, never mind policy: it is increasingly awkward to hear the Prime Minister quoting their forecast that, were it not for lockdown, the UK could have been looking at half a million deaths when, at the tail-end of the epidemic, there are only 320,000 deaths worldwide.

But there is more to science than models, and the most accurate analysts were those who relied on other pillars of science than complicated models when input parameters were close to unknown (“garbage in, garbage out”). Science does not only proceed from models after all: it also has, inter alia, experiments, defaults (“null hypotheses”), controls and historical context.

Sweden nor Japan have locked down so, if the lockdown hypothesis were true, Stockholm would by now be a morgue and Greater Tokyo (population 38 million) a necropolis.

The final scientific datum would have been historical context. The media has not pointed out that the toll of covid-19 is only 0.5% that of the 1918/1919 influenza, before the advent of antibiotics. Although possible, could Neil Ferguson’s attention-grabbing estimate of twice the number of deaths for covid-19 ever have been realistic when the parameters of the disease were largely unknown? I mean: what were the chances? Oxford’s competing model, trumpeted in the press but attacked by their peers, looks like it will have been far more accurate, so it will be important in due course to ask: why?

Cal4567

Varadkar will tweak each of the following stages enough to keep FG flying in the polls. There is that fickle level of voting cohort who seem to have moved to FG after abandoning them in the election, yet are now so confident in them because of their performance these last 2 months.

What's next a socially distance GE later this year, where we are given guidance time slots to vote in?

I'm not FG but actually think they could pull this off if the numbers keep reducing. We can always say how much better we have been than our neighbours in the UK.

stephenjmcd

Micky 32 wrote: »

He’s doing his best to get around it. I think there are proposals on the table for the cabinet ( so i read on the RTE app), he seems optimistic to get it through.

There'll be no cabinet to get it to, the current one will be gone shortly. They knocked it back last week and if it was tricky legally in March and still is now not much will change

road_high

Cal4567 wrote: »

Varadkar will tweak each of the following stages enough to keep FG flying in the polls. There is that fickle level of voting cohort who seem to have moved to FG after abandoning them in the election, yet are now so confident in them because of their performance these last 2 months.

What's next a socially distance GE later this year, where we are given guidance time slots to vote in?

I'm not FG but actually think they could pull this off if the numbers keep reducing. We can always say how much better we have been than our neighbours in the UK.

I vote FG generally because I think they are best of a bad lot for the economy. Now they're hell bent on destroying that too. So maybe they're gaining some voters but losing others fast. Varadkar is not very impressive the past month in particular. Could you imagine a Charlie Haughey hanging on Tony Holohans every word? Not a chance!

ZX7R

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Damn. Ireland has a lot of Polish people that will be flying to Poland for their summer holidays, bringing back covid to us. Unless we ban all of them from returning or quarantine them in a government facility upon arrival we cant be sure that covid is eradicated from the community.

The sort of thing Tony Hitler would say.

The irony is I will be moving lock stock and barrel , to Poland in July.
Personal family reasons nothing to with covid-19 thankfully.
But the restrictions in Ireland just make things so hard to spend time with family friends ect

stephenjmcd

Cal4567 wrote: »

Varadkar will tweak each of the following stages enough to keep FG flying in the polls. There is that fickle level of voting cohort who seem to have moved to FG after abandoning them in the election, yet are now so confident in them because of their performance these last 2 months.

What's next a socially distance GE later this year, where we are given guidance time slots to vote in?

I'm not FG but actually think they could pull this off if the numbers keep reducing. We can always say how much better we have been than our neighbours in the UK.

Leo wont get the chance to change it. Everything will be pushed to the next government which should be in place before phase 3

Gael23

Joe McHugh has come out and said schools can’t reopen while the 2m rule stands

is_that_so

polesheep wrote: »

Correction, 71% of The Journal readers are happy.

Well that's decent as they are a hard audience to please, ever! In real life you'd expect to see similar. They were calm and did well enough in the sense that we never saw the worst of it seen elsewhere. They'll still get brownie points for the cautious approach out of it. Many people are not itching to be in "normality".

road_high

I notice eastern and central Europeans living in Ireland particularly worried and vocal about the never ending lockdown here. Sensible people, they've lived under real police states and see what they lead to. Also many are disproportionately affected due to the industries our migrants tend to work in...#allinitogether...my arse:rolleyes:

road_high

Gael23 wrote: »

Joe McHugh has come out and said schools can’t reopen while the 2m rule stands

This only dawning on slow Joe now?

CruelSummer

is_that_so wrote: »

Well that's decent as they are a hard audience to please, ever! In real life you'd expect to see similar. They were calm and did well enough in the sense that we never saw the worst of it seen elsewhere. They'll still get brownie points for the cautious approach out of it. Many people are not itching to be in "normality".

The comments section in The Journal are usually ridiculous, out of touch with most of Irish society and those who work, and are negative about everything. Could it be the same group are delighted to be on €350 a week while enjoying the fine weather and want it to continue as long as possible?

is_that_so

plodder wrote: »

Testing in 24-48 hours, including initial query to GP. Then the contact tracing. Where are we with that? It needs to be able to scale up to deal with outbreaks, which we have to assume will happen. Where is the app? If the government can't deliver all the above, then for me that is the reason why we aren't opening up.

App is supposed to be the end of the month and unlikely to play much more than a minor role. It will also need at least 25% take up. The rest of it is more or less in place.

manniot2

It is no surprise that 70% of the population are happy with the governments handling. Apart from those who appear to enjoy or are indeed better off in lockdown, dont underestimate the impact that fear has had on people's thinking - the constant news (and advertisements) cycle is similar to propaganda I used to watch on Chinese state television when visiting there. I wonder will the report from Italy today (where 90% of people who died had 3 underlying conditions and the average age was 80) surface on George Lee's report?

is_that_so

CruelSummer wrote: »

The comments section in The Journal are usually ridiculous, out of touch with most of Irish society and those who work, and are negative about everything. Could it be the same group are delighted to be on €350 a week while enjoying the fine weather and want it to continue as long as possible?

Yeah, someone telling me yesterday they use them for amusement.

uli84

road_high wrote: »

I notice eastern and central Europeans living in Ireland particularly worried and vocal about the never ending lockdown here. Sensible people, they've lived under real police states and see what they lead to. Also many are disproportionately affected due to the industries our migrants tend to work in...#allinitogether...my arse:rolleyes:

Also noticed that, i’m one of them, we’re not easily scarred either

Cork Boy 53

average_runner wrote: »

The numbers are under a 100 a day now, they need to move into phase 2 this weekend.


Need to relax two meters to 1 meter.


I was all for lockdown and did what it meant to do, but now time to move on

Sorry to burst your bubble but you need to accept there is no prospect whatsoever of any more restrictions being lifted this weekend. This will not even be discussed by the current cabinet until the end of next week and no set in stone guarantee that the next phase will be implemented on 8th June either.

mikekerry

Hurrache wrote: »

Can you imagine if they didn't release the numbers provided at daily press briefings specifically on Covid-19? You'd be complaining that they're scaring people by keeping the numbers secret.

By what actual good does this daily bombardment of bad news do to people only to put more fear into people ( and maybe to prompt them to stay indoors)?
Couldn't they just do a weekly report of figures?

paw patrol

seamus wrote: »

And on a journal article, that's no mean feat. It goes to show that online platforms are considerably out of whack with the man on the street. The actual approval ratings are likely higher than that again, despite the vocal minorities online.

Who isn't upset with the current measures? The welfare class and pensioners have minimal disruptions to their lives BUT few of them will foot the bill for this. We don't get much of those groupings on boards tbh.
Some people are even better off under covid19 finanical - long may it last !!

The PAYE and self employed will pay for this with taxation. Mortgage payers will be roasted over this too when rates change and bank charges go up.

The working people forced off work and taxpayers are mostly pissed of about this. The people who are keeping the country going.

Of course there are the virtuous folk among them who will do without question but most of the anger (imo) comes from the group that will be screwed over this.

It may be a vocal minority but they are the ones who are suffering and will suffer the most .

Cork Boy 53

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Leo wont get the chance to change it. Everything will be pushed to the next government which should be in place before phase 3

I agree there will be no significant changes in the Covid policy under the current government but what if Leo is still Taoiseach when and if the next one is formed? What then?

bush

RollieFingers wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-government-handling-coronavirus-5109737-May2020/

71% of people happy with how the government have been handling the Covid-19 crisis.

71% of people delighted to be sitting on their holes with lovely weather.

facehugger99

bush wrote: »

71% of people delighted to be sitting on their holes with lovely weather.

All being paid for with borrowed money.

Will be fascinating to see the satisfaction levels when the bill arrives.

I'm sure all the lockdown-fanboys will be delighted with massive increased taxes and cuts to spending.

Seanachai

bush wrote: »

71% of people delighted to be sitting on their holes with lovely weather.

They seem like the people partying in a horror movie not knowing they're about to be slaughtered, except it's not a serial killer but job loss and debt.

ednwireland

growleaves wrote: »

We’re all in the big numbers now: Adding up the damage Britain’s Covid-19 policies have caused

Imperial College haven’t had a good war, and after their performance in other recent epidemics perhaps they will now pass their mantle onto another team. Preferably one that can code to levels fit for publication, never mind policy: it is increasingly awkward to hear the Prime Minister quoting their forecast that, were it not for lockdown, the UK could have been looking at half a million deaths when, at the tail-end of the epidemic, there are only 320,000 deaths worldwide.

But there is more to science than models, and the most accurate analysts were those who relied on other pillars of science than complicated models when input parameters were close to unknown (“garbage in, garbage out”). Science does not only proceed from models after all: it also has, inter alia, experiments, defaults (“null hypotheses”), controls and historical context.

i think thats the problem all along without huge testing figures any analysis is almost guess work.

i dont think anyone has a handle on transmission vectors and what real world solutions will slow/stop thgis, the only thing we do seem to know that its hit certain parts of the community very hard