Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ChikiChiki wrote: »

R number in Germany back up to 1.1. We will see over the coming week what this means.

Maybe our slow reopening approach might prove the most sensible.

It'll go back down again.

German numbers always peak on Thrusday and Friday for some reason and with numbers less than a thousand per day up until then, even a samll increase was going to push it up again.

Same thing will likely happen next weekend.

Also, it's now three weeks since restrictions started easing, so it's unlikley to be caused by that.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

The thing is, we’ve had situations like this before were a really bad flu season wipes out a lot of elderly people.

We just didn’t go into lockdown. And there wasn’t all the constant scaremongering in the media/social media.

There was probably even a strain of Covid here since last year. We just carried on through it.

This whole thing is just people getting hysterical over a mild illness.

Yes, a lot, but never this many. COVID has killed more people in a few weeks than any year of infleunza on record, and thats with a huge lockdown that halted infection the last month
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/annualseasonalfluvaccinationcampaign%20.html
HSE says potentially 1000 deaths in a very severe flu outbreak, and thats over a whole year. So it has already exceeded a worst case scenario flu event by 50% despite countless measures in place such as cocooning and youre still comparing them to one another.

And it may have been here a while ago, who knows, but regardless of when it did it still didnt spread widely. Very few europeans have antibodies, so there was no epidemic of any note before March, and that is why we 'got on with it', becaue it wasnt here!

Youre comlaining about scare mongering but youre going the other extreme, completely minimising a valid and serious public health concern by comparing it to known milder seasonal illness

Stephen A Smith

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was just in town (Cork city) and it was like a normal Sunday. There was people everywhere, walking about drinking coffee and sat on benches and in the park eating takeaway food from the local cafes and restaurants.

I go to Dunnes in there weekly to do my shopping, usually the clothing/homeware section is completely sectioned off and you can only access the grocery section.
Not today, all 3 floors open. I went into Boots and previously you couldn’t access the makeup/perfume or baby clothing sections, only the necessities & pharmacy was available but not any more.
All sections were open to the public.

There is going to be uproar if Dunnes & Boots are allowed to trade from their clothing/homeware departments and other retail stores are being forced to wait months to open.
If the government won’t accommodate them I can see them opening up of their own accord.
Other businesses are already finding ways around the restrictions as it is, and more will do the same when they see the unfairness of some stores being allowed to trade when they’re expected to stay closed.

It’s over lads, I didn’t believe it till today but it’s clear now. The amount of people around proves it.
The fear & terror that was keeping people cooped up in their homes is gone.

Was always going to happen once the infection rate started reducing, hoping events like this don’t start shaping an upward curve again.

amadangomor

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well this is interesting. Do you think Germany's R number went to 1.1 because they are lifting restrictions

OR because they havent been lifting them quick enough?

"Over 3,000 people rallied in Munich and thousands more gathered in Stuttgart and across Germany on Saturday to demand the lifting of restrictions ordered by the German authorities. Many of the protesters defied the guidelines which call for a limited number of participants and for social distancing to be maintained during such events."

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-thousands-of-protesters-slam-isolation-measures/a-53382891

This was yesterday.

retro:electro

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe you dont know what the phrase 'the epitome' actually means.

And stop trying to say it is 'people like myself' when you are such an active participant in a conversation about the severity of the pandemic and what is important right now.

The epitome of grim, for a wedding.

Jesus. Didn’t feel like it needed direct spelling out but there you go. Would you go away with the posturing.

Kermit.de.frog

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It'll go back down again.

German numbers always peak on Thrusday and Friday

The R0 doesn't peak every Thursday and Friday

MrDavid1976

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was just in town (Cork city) and it was like a normal Sunday. There was people everywhere, walking about drinking coffee and sat on benches and in the park eating takeaway food from the local cafes and restaurants.

I go to Dunnes in there weekly to do my shopping, usually the clothing/homeware section is completely sectioned off and you can only access the grocery section.
Not today, all 3 floors open. I went into Boots and previously you couldn’t access the makeup/perfume or baby clothing sections, only the necessities & pharmacy was available but not any more.
All sections were open to the public.

There is going to be uproar if Dunnes & Boots are allowed to trade from their clothing/homeware departments and other retail stores are being forced to wait months to open.
If the government won’t accommodate them I can see them opening up of their own accord.
Other businesses are already finding ways around the restrictions as it is, and more will do the same when they see the unfairness of some stores being allowed to trade when they’re expected to stay closed.

It’s over lads, I didn’t believe it till today but it’s clear now. The amount of people around proves it.
The fear & terror that was keeping people cooped up in their homes is gone.

Did they restrict the numbers in the shop? was there queueing outside? Did it feel unsafe? Genuine questions.

Nermal

ChikiChiki wrote: »

R number in Germany back up to 1.1. We will see over the coming week what this means.

Maybe our slow reopening approach might prove the most sensible.

It's almost as if the lockdown was an expensive and pointless failure. As if the restrictions necessary to maintain R0 under 1 were never sustainable in anything other than the short term, and that allowing the population to get infected and achieve immunity was the right course of action all along.

Stephen A Smith

Nermal wrote: »

It's almost as if the lockdown was an expensive and pointless failure. As if the restrictions necessary to maintain R0 under 1 were never sustainable in anything other than the short term, and that allowing the population to get infected and achieve immunity was the right course of action all along.

I pray this is a piss take.

Discodog

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was just in town (Cork city) and it was like a normal Sunday. There was people everywhere, walking about drinking coffee and sat on benches and in the park eating takeaway food from the local cafes and restaurants.

I go to Dunnes in there weekly to do my shopping, usually the clothing/homeware section is completely sectioned off and you can only access the grocery section.
Not today, all 3 floors open. I went into Boots and previously you couldn’t access the makeup/perfume or baby clothing sections, only the necessities & pharmacy was available but not any more.
All sections were open to the public.

There is going to be uproar if Dunnes & Boots are allowed to trade from their clothing/homeware departments and other retail stores are being forced to wait months to open.
If the government won’t accommodate them I can see them opening up of their own accord.
Other businesses are already finding ways around the restrictions as it is, and more will do the same when they see the unfairness of some stores being allowed to trade when they’re expected to stay closed.

It’s over lads, I didn’t believe it till today but it’s clear now. The amount of people around proves it.
The fear & terror that was keeping people cooped up in their homes is gone.

M&S clothing dept is open too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The R0 doesn't peak every Thursday and Friday

I meant numbers of new cases. The R0 is taken from the previous four days, so thta takes a day or two longer to be affected.

SusieBlue

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was just in town (Cork city) and it was like a normal Sunday. There was people everywhere, walking about drinking coffee and sat on benches and in the park eating takeaway food from the local cafes and restaurants.

I go to Dunnes in there weekly to do my shopping, usually the clothing/homeware section is completely sectioned off and you can only access the grocery section.
Not today, all 3 floors open. I went into Boots and previously you couldn’t access the makeup/perfume or baby clothing sections, only the necessities & pharmacy was available but not any more.
All sections were open to the public.

There is going to be uproar if Dunnes & Boots are allowed to trade from their clothing/homeware departments and other retail stores are being forced to wait months to open.
If the government won’t accommodate them I can see them opening up of their own accord.
Other businesses are already finding ways around the restrictions as it is, and more will do the same when they see the unfairness of some stores being allowed to trade when they’re expected to stay closed.

It’s over lads, I didn’t believe it till today but it’s clear now. The amount of people around proves it.
The fear & terror that was keeping people cooped up in their homes is gone.

If that sort of behaviour results in an upward trend, it will realistically result in the slowing of this being lifted. But yep, noticed similar when I went to centra yesterday, I was actively dodging people. It was disconcerting. Imagine the dunnes in my area will have standard restrictions still.

But people are being incredibly foolish.

Ginger n Lemon

Nermal wrote: »

It's almost as if the lockdown was an expensive and pointless failure. As if the restrictions necessary to maintain R0 under 1 were never sustainable in anything other than the short term, and that allowing the population to get infected and achieve immunity was the right course of action all along.

What I find interesting is that Denmark, Norway, Finland, Czech republic arent reporting R of over 1.

meanwhile in Germany thousands of people are protesting (and are probably spreading it), but these protests are rarely covered by BBCs

But I agree that lockdown concept had 0 scientific backup behind it, unlike washing hands (which proves to kill bacteria). Some scientists are confused why schools have been closed in the first place as there is lack of any sort of meaningful evidence that young children under 10 spread covid. (Switzerland even went further and said under 10 year olds cant/dont spread it in any meaningful way)

FishOnABike

ChikiChiki wrote: »

R number in Germany back up to 1.1. We will see over the coming week what this means.

Maybe our slow reopening approach might prove the most sensible.

If it remains at that level they will have to reimpose some restrictions to bring it back below 1.

Angela Merkel indicated in a statement in mid April that a R0 of 1.1 would have their health system overwhelmed by October, 1.2 by July and 1.3 by June.

The higher the R0 goes when restrictions are lifted the quicker and more strict the reaction needs to be to bring it back below 1.

Seeing this and other countries like South Korea have to reimpose restrictions adds strength to the argument that a cautious step by step approach is sensible.

"Only a fool tests the water with both feet."

stephenjmcd

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was just in town (Cork city) and it was like a normal Sunday. There was people everywhere, walking about drinking coffee and sat on benches and in the park eating takeaway food from the local cafes and restaurants.

I go to Dunnes in there weekly to do my shopping, usually the clothing/homeware section is completely sectioned off and you can only access the grocery section.
Not today, all 3 floors open. I went into Boots and previously you couldn’t access the makeup/perfume or baby clothing sections, only the necessities & pharmacy was available but not any more.
All sections were open to the public.

There is going to be uproar if Dunnes & Boots are allowed to trade from their clothing/homeware departments and other retail stores are being forced to wait months to open.
If the government won’t accommodate them I can see them opening up of their own accord.
Other businesses are already finding ways around the restrictions as it is, and more will do the same when they see the unfairness of some stores being allowed to trade when they’re expected to stay closed.

It’s over lads, I didn’t believe it till today but it’s clear now. The amount of people around proves it.
The fear & terror that was keeping people cooped up in their homes is gone.

Any of the big dunnes stores that have clothing / homeware are open now from what I've heard, now the purely clothing one in Bray is closed but went over to the one in Cornalscourt this morning and was able to get what I wanted out of the clothing sections. Could browse away no problem. Likewise in the homeware section.

Bit of a queue to get in, but most were heading for the food part.

ZX7R

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

The Gardai have the power to break up such parties if they are reported to them.

All the Garda can do in situations like this is respond to a noise complaint, the laws implemented for the restrictions are for public offenses only.

SusieBlue

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Did they restrict the numbers in the shop? was there queueing outside? Did it feel dangerous? Genuine questions.

There was queuing outside, so numbers were restricted, yes. And there hand sanatiser at the door which everyone had to use on their way in.
There was also signs reminding us to social distance inside and every one I came across respected that.

It didn’t feel remotely dangerous, in fact it was the most enjoyable afternoon of shopping I’ve had since all this stuff started.
I managed to buy my godson a few bits of summer clothes, he was born in October so he has nothing that fits him for this weather so I’m really happy about that.
I’m looking forward to dropping the bits and pieces over this evening, and having a chat with his mam in her garden when I do so.

It was lovely to see so many people supporting the little coffee shops and cafes. It was nice to pass restaurants seeing people working, albeit for takeaway services.
After weeks of the place being deserted it was a joy to see the local economy being supported and long may it continue.

ChikiChiki

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What I find interesting is that Denmark, Norway, Finland, Czech republic arent reporting R of over 1.

meanwhile in Germany thousands of people are protesting (and are probably spreading it), but these protests are rarely covered by BBCs

But I agree that lockdown concept had 0 scientific backup behind it, unlike washing hands (which proves to kill bacteria). Some scientists are confused why schools have been closed in the first place as there is lack of any sort of meaningful evidence that young children under 10 spread covid. (Switzerland even went further and said under 10 year olds cant/dont spread it in any meaningful way)

Tbh I would be vary of what comes out of Germany. They can be creative with the truth when it suits.

The Cologne attacks were an example of this.

MrDavid1976

SusieBlue wrote: »

There was queuing outside, so numbers were restricted, yes. And there hand sanatiser at the door which everyone had to use on their way in.
There was also signs reminding us to social distance inside and every one I came across respected that.

It didn’t feel remotely dangerous, in fact it was the most enjoyable afternoon of shopping I’ve had since all this stuff started.
I managed to buy my godson a few bits of summer clothes, he was born in October so he has nothing that fits him for this weather so I’m really happy about that.
I’m looking forward to dropping the bits and pieces over this evening, and having a chat with his mam in her garden when I do so.

It was lovely to see so many people supporting the little coffee shops and cafes. It was nice to pass restaurants seeing people working, albeit for takeaway services.
After weeks of the place being deserted it was a joy to see the local economy being supported and long may it continue.

If it is done in the right way then it is positive. I think there needs to be care in terms of changing rooms, return of clothes etc. but that post sounds very positive.

ChikiChiki

FishOnABike wrote: »

If it remains at that level they will have to reimpose some restrictions to bring it back below 1.

Angela Merkel indicated in a statement in mid April that a R0 of 1.1 would have their health system overwhelmed by October, 1.2 by July and 1.3 by June.

The higher the R0 goes when restrictions are lifted the quicker and more strict the reaction needs to be to bring it back below 1.

Seeing this and other countries like South Korea have to reimpose restrictions adds strength to the argument that a cautious step by step approach is sensible.

"Only a fool tests the water with both feet."

I agree and I think that's what our approach is based on.

Observe and learn. Both countries have more scientists, more medics and more resources being thrown at it. And producing more data which the results of which can feed into our modelling to help make data driven decisions.

It's prudent to sit a few weeks behind, see the results come to light and make our decisions based on the outcomes.

Too much whataboutery being thrown about.

Cork Boy 53

SusieBlue wrote: »

There was queuing outside, so numbers were restricted, yes. And there hand sanatiser at the door which everyone had to use on their way in.
There was also signs reminding us to social distance inside and every one I came across respected that.

It didn’t feel remotely dangerous, in fact it was the most enjoyable afternoon of shopping I’ve had since all this stuff started.
I managed to buy my godson a few bits of summer clothes, he was born in October so he has nothing that fits him for this weather so I’m really happy about that.
I’m looking forward to dropping the bits and pieces over this evening, and having a chat with his mam in her garden when I do so.

It was lovely to see so many people supporting the little coffee shops and cafes. It was nice to pass restaurants seeing people working, albeit for takeaway services.
After weeks of the place being deserted it was a joy to see the local economy being supported and long may it continue.

Coffee shops and cafes open? Maybe for takeaway services but sit down services are still not allowed and won`t be for several more weeks. Actually how can clothing sections of stores legally be open already? This doesn`t make sense.

SusieBlue

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Coffee shops and cafes open? Maybe for takeaway services but sit down services are still not allowed and won`t be for several more weeks. Actually how can clothing sections of stores legally be open already? This doesn`t make sense.

Yeah, open for takeaway services as I said. It was great to see people walking around with coffee cups supporting them.

Presumably they can open because they’re also supermarkets (and food is essential) but it’s extremely unfair on the businesses that are being forced to remain closed for another few months.
If Dunnes are allowed to open a 3 story premises selling clothing, shoes and homeware then I don’t see why other shops can’t open too.

Wouldn’t surprise me if other types of retail start selling a limited amount of food and necessities in order to get around the restrictions, the same way as many pubs are now doing takeaway food just to keep some bit of businesses.

KrustyUCC

Tesco had their clothing open today as well

Seperate queue within the store

JTMan

Discodog wrote: »

M&S clothing dept is open too.

How are they legally doing this? I know they have a grocery store but clothing stores are supposed to be closed right now. It would not be hard for the grocery-only section to stay open.

MrDavid1976

JTMan wrote: »

How are they legally doing this? I know they have a grocery store but clothing stores are supposed to be closed right now. It would not be hard for the grocery-only section to stay open.

People need clothes.

Stark

But if we take people's clothes away, they'll be forced to stay at home and not go outside. I think I've found the solution to getting us to R0=0

I'm very intelligent me.

Cork Boy 53

JTMan wrote: »

How are they legally doing this? I know they have a grocery store but clothing stores are supposed to be closed right now. It would not be hard for the grocery-only section to stay open.

I just took a look at the gov.ie roadmap. As far as I can see these type of stores or sections of stores are not legally allowed to reopen before 18th May and any that are already open now are flouting the law and could be shut down again. It`s all about enforcement I guess.

Delighted to hear that clothing sections are back open in some places.

My wife is pregnant and we really need to start preparing. Buying some clothes would be great.

Discodog

JTMan wrote: »

How are they legally doing this? I know they have a grocery store but clothing stores are supposed to be closed right now. It would not be hard for the grocery-only section to stay open.

It was incredibly civilised at 9.30am. Had the store almost to myself.

Cork Boy 53

Stark wrote: »

But if we take people's clothes away, they'll be forced to stay at home and not go outside. I think I've found the solution to getting us to R0=0

I'm very intelligent me.

I have found a flaw in your grand solution. What if people have sewing machines and material in their homes and can make their own clothes? In that case they would not be forced to stay at home.;)