Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

plodder

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You can be 100% certain that people from departments such as Finance, Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Agriculture, Food and the Marine etc. will have being making strong counterarguments. The idea that only public health voices are listened to is nonsense.

Where is the evidence of this? We see NPHET every day. What is this other committee I haven't heard anything about?

KrustyUCC

fleet_admiral wrote: »

What happened to 'flatten the curve'

They changed the goalposts

https://www.thejournal.ie/government-calls-two-metre-distance-rule-5106713-May2020/

Holohan says its guidance
Varadkar its a rule

Which is it?

I think it will take business to get out in front of the government on this

If all restaurants, hotels, hairdressers, pubs announced they will be adopting one metre seeing as its guidance then the government would move too

JRant

is_that_so wrote: »

Transparency is generally a good thing but our press have been woeful on this and the usual unnamed leak or off the record briefing pieces is the last thing you need in this situation. Business issues are subject to a lot of other variables, not least viability and how they are run and just how much stunting can 3 months do to a child's education? The chance of them being back in school was always a long shot.

I agree, the press have been woeful from the very beginning of this. That doesn't take away from the fact that NPHET stopped publishing their meeting minutes. That's an absolute scandal IMO.

3 months is a long time in a child's education, particularly for the ones that struggle during the best of times. Add in to the mix that they still aren't allowed any social interaction with other children and it quickly becomes a recipe for disaster. It's not as simple as just saying "it's only 3 months", there's a lot more going on than just the physical closing of schools.

johnnyskeleton

Harpon wrote: »

The country should reopen with immediate effect with people wearing face masks in places where social distancing can’t occur, and being required to sanitise hands before entering shops/cafes etc. For those who don’t want to take any risk, they can continue to only venture outside for exercise and food. Otherwise the rest of us should just go out and start living our life’s again.

So basically, the same as it is right now, only with the pubs open and you have to wear a mask?

crossman47

hmmm wrote: »

It's an expert group to advise the government on health implications, your idea that this is somehow a bad thing is ridiculous.

I wouldn't want non-health experts or elected officials on a health advisory group.

Exactly. The government is there to take the wider view but they won't because they want a fall guy if it goes wrong.

iamwhoiam

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Who are we talking about here?

NHEPT .

Professor Moriarty

plodder wrote: »

Where is the evidence of this? We see NPHET every day. What is this other committee I haven't heard anything about?

It's called a cabinet.

Quantum Erasure

Lord Spence wrote: »

If it is indeed just a guidance then we cam all go about our business as normal, If someone wants to keep me at a 2 metre distance then fine tell me (unless were in a public place in which case if your worried about 2m then you should be out in public in the first place), but at this stage people should be allowed to make their own decisions...

And that's why we have the restrictions we do

robbiezero

batman_oh wrote: »

It also trapped lots of people in high density areas into a small space so they were stuck surrounded by hundreds of people on their daily walk (the only thing they could originally do). I passed more people on small foothpaths every time I went out than I would have in Glendalough at any point.
Whatever about when it was brought in - it is nonsense at this point

Agreed, its complete nonsense. Car parks of tourist attractions can be closed and if necessary policed. Like with IKEA, if in doubt, shut it down is the approach of this cowardly, rudderless Government.

I live in D5. St Annes Park and Dollymount Strand were more packed last weekend than I ever saw them in 20 years of living in the area (barring events of course).

Quantum Erasure

iamwhoiam wrote: »

NHEPT .

I thought it was the regulars here...

stephenjmcd

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ireland-idUSKBN2350YS

As others have mentioned, Leo on the 2m and the speeding up of reopening

robbiezero

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ireland-idUSKBN2350YS

As others have mentioned, Leo on the 2m and the speeding up of reopening

He would want to be careful, he might end up saying something decisive.

Westernyelp

No evidence or sources. Speculation and opinion only. If this was the leaving cert you would not pass I fear.

KrustyUCC

Begs the question again what does come down a bit more mean in terms of numbers?

Just soundbites from Leo really

Harpon

Westernyelp wrote: »

No evidence or sources. Speculation and opinion only. If this was the leaving cert you would not pass I fear.

Are you saying eu countries are lying about the number of infections? If so where is your evidence of that?

Are you saying Lidl and Aldi are lying about the number of staff infected? If so where is your evidence of that?

I’m sure I will be waiting a long time for you to come back with evidence.

Breezin

JRant wrote: »

I agree, the press have been woeful from the very beginning of this. That doesn't take away from the fact that NPHET stopped publishing their meeting minutes. That's an absolute scandal IMO.

The eagerness of most of the Irish news media to be co-opted into a fake war footing marks another low point in their history. Just as previously they came blindly on board as a tool for driving austerity, with a few honourable exceptions they were intoxicated with the new authoritarianism, confining themselves to relaying specially redacted figures and 'rules' and 'laws' and 'guidance'.

Putty in the hands of technocrats.

plodder

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's called a cabinet.

It might as well be a chest of drawers because they don't have the expertise to counter-balance the public health advice coming from NPHET. You mentioned advice coming from other civil servants, and Im sure that's happening but it is ad-hoc and not in a position of authority to influence the "cabinet" significantly.

Harpon

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So basically, the same as it is right now, only with the pubs open and you have to wear a mask?

What part of “all businesses” did you not understand?

myfreespirit

Harpon wrote: »

Are you saying eu countries are lying about the number of infections? If so where is your evidence of that?

Are you saying Lidl and Aldi are lying about the number of staff infected? If so where is your evidence of that?

I’m sure I will be waiting a long time for you to come back with evidence.

This post reminded me of an excellent quote from an article in the Guardian recently.

"In a straight contest between coronavirus and bull****, the coronavirus wins every time"

I call BS on this supposed "evidence" that all restrictions can be lifted.

Tommysocks11

Dead right, this is so low now that its virtually gone, open up the country, over 7000 prople die of cancer each year let alone other illnesses etc, yes theres risks from covid but also risks out driving a car, people are blinded by the scaremongering by our government

Harpon

myfreespirit wrote: »

This post reminded me of an excellent quote from an article in the Guardian recently.

"In a straight contest between coronavirus and bull****, the coronavirus wins every time"

I call BS on this supposed "evidence" that all restrictions can be lifted.

You can call it bs all you want, doesn’t make it a fact unfortunately. Unless as I said before you have evidence eu countries are lying and Lidl and Aldi are lying.

Benimar

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

It's guidance from Tony, he advises. the rules come from Leo

It's actually shocking the amount of people who don't (or won't?) understand this.

Quantum Erasure

Deleted User wrote: »

You won't see evidence form the "lockdown forever, but let's put untested patients from our hospitals in with our most vulnerable, and keep the nursing homes open" experts either.

Yeah but whatabout

Heckler

I've been working throughout all this. 20km round trip from the Cork city suburbs to Glanmire. Haven't come across one checkpoint in all the time. For anyone who knows Cork the only checks you'll meet is on the Pouladuff slip road right next to the Togher Garda station or on the Glanmire Lower Road. Both easily avoided. In fact in 5 years travelling both routes I've never met a checkpoint, pandemic or not.

Traffic is up at least 70% in the last 2 weeks. I live out by the Lough and the last 2-3 days it has been absolutely mobbed. Same for Fitzgeralds Park.

My mother is staying with my sister. I have no qualms visiting. Its within the 5km but if it wasn't I'd go anyway.

Its very clear that the numbers they seem to be aiming for are 0. Everything else seems to be too high or a cause for great concern.

At this point, I would actually support a 2 week complete lockdown of been detained in our houses with the army on the streets if it meant we could end this nonsense and get back to normal for 15th June.

Its just getting silly now.

KrustyUCC

Benimar wrote: »

It's actually shocking the amount of people who don't (or won't?) understand this.

Leo seems a bit confused himself


"said the two-metre social distancing guideline remains in place for now. He emphasised that this is a guideline and not the law.

"Differing bodies give different advice, but if someone has the virus, it's safer to be two metres away than one", he said. "

On FM104 he also called it a rule

facehugger99

It really is a cowardly and shambolic sh;tshow at the moment.

Holahan can parrot his line about only advising. Varadkar can claim he's acting based on the advice. Both of them can neatly sidestep taking any responsibility for the devastation that's being wrought on the country.

We have 160 of the most well-remunerated politicians in the world 'representing' us and not a single leader among them.

The media are delighted with all the clicks they are getting and have pumped out a constant stream of fear-mongering from day 1.

We will look back on these days in the coming years. The billions of debt added to our children's and grand-kids futures, the hundreds of thousands of lost jobs.

The loss of lives through reduced health spending in the coming years will dwarf anything seen by Covid.

And all over a virus that represented a near-negligible threat for the working population. A virus whose median age of fatalities is higher than the average life-expectancy FFS!

The future inquests and tribunals into this will be galling to watch, no doubt presided over by the same bunch of cowardly fcukwits that currently are hiding away from making any decisions.

fleet_admiral

Anybody else's children starting to really act up? My son has been handling this madness fine up to this week. He's sick of doing homework and it's a job to get him out of the house. He was fine up to the last few days.

radia

The evidence we have is that when all businesses were open and no restrictions were in place, cases of COVID-19 rose exponentially from a handful to hundreds over a very short timeframe.

The evidence we have is that when restrictions were put in place to limit the number of people out and about having interactions, and the number of people with whom they interacted, and the distance at which they had those interactions, then the rate of infection was greatly reduced.

The evidence we have is that under those circumstances with all those supporting restrictions in place, meaning that the Lidl and Aldi workers met fewer people who in turn had met fewer people, at a safe distance, the infection rate was manageable.

That's very, very different from saying everything will be grand if we just open everything up and have everyone mingling as before.

I think you need to rethink your 'evidence'.

Westernyelp

Harpon wrote:

Are you saying eu countries are lying about the number of infections? If so where is your evidence of that?

Harpon wrote:

Are you saying Lidl and Aldi are lying about the number of staff infected? If so where is your evidence of that?

I have no idea if the countries are living or not. There is no evidence or complete studies either way on how these numbers stack up at the moment.
If you are putting forward a a position it is up to you to supply evidence and sources not me. That's how it works.

Ditto for the supermarket numbers