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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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    #1022
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    johnboy1298 wrote: »
    It will be interesting over the next few weeks, but the easing of restrictions so far has proved successful in austria etc. The swedish epidemiologists & Michael Levitt may well be proved right too over that tie period. If this continues there will be a very strong argument to be made that the length of our phases has been hugely over cautious. The pressure will come on the government quickly if this is the case as every day they waste is costing a fortune and more and more businesses will come under pressure to open or shut for good. I would imagine that the press will jump on this as they finally notice that the corona virus death numbers are no longer particularly news worthy and they realise recession is the next big headline problem.

    You're bang on about the press

    They'll switch to economic bad luck stories when there's no drama left in covid


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    #1023
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Am I right in assuming the U.K. can drive to wherever they want to exercise and get outdoors as long as they stay in their family group?
    Are they also reopening in July what we are in August?
    Seems schools will partially reopen in June, and people are told to return to work who cannot work from home.
    If our nearest neighbour is doing this, who incidentally had many more cases and deaths than us, why are we being left behind?

    Maybe because we have our own leadership who make decisions independent of our neighbours? This has to be one of the stupidest arguments put forward for an aggressive reopening. You don't do something just because another country is doing it. Look the UK are trying to gain herd immunity, why aren't we doing that too was a similar call at the time from people. I don't think the UK example is one that anyone should want to follow in this crisis.


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    #1024
    JoeA3
    Registered Users Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭JoeA3


    Loozer wrote: »
    You're bang on about the press

    They'll switch to economic bad luck stories when there's no drama left in covid

    They’ve definitely already started doing this. RTE Prime Time and Tonight Show on Tv3 was dominated by economic-fallout concerns last week.


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    #1025
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We have the longest reopening plan in the world. And based on Tony’s words and the speculation, we might not even start phase 1 on time.

    They’ll completely lose public support if they try to extend again.

    What do you mean based on Tony's words? I understood we are going in the right direction?


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    #1026
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Maybe because we have our own leadership who make decisions independent of our neighbours? This has to be one of the stupidest arguments put forward for an aggressive reopening. You don't do something just because another country is doing it. Look the UK are trying to gain herd immunity, why aren't we doing that too was a similar call at the time from people. I don't think the UK example is one that anyone should want to follow in this crisis.


    You mentioned leadership in your first point. Have you any evidence of leadership shown in Ireland during this crisis? The only sign of leadership is leading Ireland back to the 1930s.

    The second point you dont so something because another country is doing it- is exactly why Ireland went into lockdown.


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    #1027
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 6,065 ✭✭✭OldRio


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Am I right in assuming the U.K. can drive to wherever they want to exercise and get outdoors as long as they stay in their family group?
    Are they also reopening in July what we are in August?
    Seems schools will partially reopen in June, and people are told to return to work who cannot work from home.
    If our nearest neighbour is doing this, who incidentally had many more cases and deaths than us, why are we being left behind?

    Left behind?
    Good grief, this is parody? Yes?


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    #1028
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,483 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    It was never exponential

    Thats very clear

    new cases were pretty exponential up to the first week in April here, and deaths for another week


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    #1029
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Beasty wrote: »
    Only 1 para plus a link allowed under site copyright guidelines

    Thank you Captain Mainwaring.


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    #1030
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    kaymin wrote: »
    https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/

    Basically Sweden and Germany got it right with a light touch lockdown and almost every other country got it wrong given there's no immunity built up and they've ruined their economies. Also the virus burns itself out after a short exponential growth period regardless of shutdown measures.

    A country's healthcare ability to deal with increase capacity of a disease is surely the main factor that we had to restrict movements so much? Sweden seems to have a very good healthcare system and isn't overwhelmed despite the amount of admissions it had. Germany's healthcare system is also very well organised and seemed to be able to manage increase of cases.

    Unfortunately people will pass away from this, however the restrictions were put in place to stop the healthcare system being overwhelmed. I read there are currently 3000 healthcare staff on Covid related leave. Healthcare staff having this is very dangerous particularly when treating vulnerable patients


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    #1031
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,113 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I can see gyms having enormous difficulty reopening. People with paid membership can’t really be told them they can and cannot enter based on how busy the gym is


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    #1032
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Gael23 wrote: »
    I can see gyms having enormous difficulty reopening. People with paid membership can’t really be told them they can and cannot enter based on how busy the gym is

    With something like that they'll have to allocate times to people


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    #1033
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,959 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    This is a process. I suppose it will work out that some/many will go to gyms and other places, and others will watch and wait to see what the impact is.

    There are those who want everything opened up, there are others who are very wary. Not everyone feels and thinks the same way.


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    #1034
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    frillyleaf wrote: »
    A country's healthcare ability to deal with increase capacity of a disease is surely the main factor that we had to restrict movements so much? Sweden seems to have a very good healthcare system and isn't overwhelmed despite the amount of admissions it had. Germany's healthcare system is also very well organised and seemed to be able to manage increase of cases.

    Unfortunately people will pass away from this, however the restrictions were put in place to stop the healthcare system being overwhelmed. I read there are currently 3000 healthcare staff on Covid related leave. Healthcare staff having this is very dangerous particularly when treating vulnerable patients

    This is the point, right, 'we don't want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed' - well invest in it.

    The stark reality in all of this is that it's about cost. The cost of investing. The cost of treatment. Avoid the cost of COVID patients. It's rarely about outcomes. The same applies to vaccines and any mandated Coronavirus vaccine. Don't be fooled into thinking it's about your health, it's making money for the manufacturers, and it's about reducing the cost for the health insurers, be it private or public. Nothing more.


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    #1035
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    OldRio wrote: »
    Left behind?
    Good grief, this is parody? Yes?

    How so? Are we out in front re-opening ahead of others? Have we a competent plan on getting the economy going? We can’t even agree on what to do in August - the government just throw out a few kite flying articles day after day and offer no direction: ‘Businesses will be closed for non compliance’ - ‘Everyone get ready to sue their Employer for not following health & safety advice’.
    We are just hiding in the ditch watching on as Europe re-opens and throwing jobs & business here under the bus.


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    #1036
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Are we out in front re-opening ahead of others?

    It's not about being out in front. It is about doing the right thing for us.

    We still have in excess of 200 new cases per day.

    That's the reality of the situation. That seems too high a base for us to open up. We need that to fall over the coming days.


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    #1037
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    It's almost as if the Germans know how to run a country. I'd advise everyone who's able to to make a trip to Germany when this is all over to see how a modern country actually functions.

    Too tolerant on drug dealing in public.


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    #1038
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It's not about being out in front. It is about doing the right thing for us.

    We still have in excess of 200 new cases per day.

    That's the reality of the situation. That seems too high a base for us to open up. We need that to fall over the coming days.

    Put a concrete figure +/- 10% you'd be happy with.

    PS (edit): Average for last 5 days is below 200.


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    #1039
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Put a concrete figure +/- 10% you'd be happy with.

    Between 30 and 40. Which is where Austria and Switzerland are.


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    #1040
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Between 30 and 40. Which is where Austria and Switzerland are.

    Why pick them out? What's comparative in Ireland that you admire in them?


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    #1041
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The one guy dropping in on 3 nightclubs over one night last weekend in Seoul has lead to 52 new cases so far. Be interesting to see the number of new cases in South Korea in the next few days.

    All nightclubs and bars are shut again only days after reopening.

    Good we can learn from the experiences in other countries.


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    #1042
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The one guy dropping in on 3 nightclubs over one night last weekend in Seoul has lead to just over 52 new cases so far. Be interesting to see the number of new cases in South Korea in the next few days.

    All nightclubs and bars are shut again only days after reopening.

    Good we can learn from the experiences in other countries.

    '... the other countries and experiences that back up my worldview, but I'll ignore the others that don't'


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    #1043
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    '... the other countries and experiences that back up my worldview, but I'll ignore the others that don't'

    Poor fella all the same.


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    #1044
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    OldRio wrote: »
    Left behind?
    Good grief, this is parody? Yes?

    The same post which states they have many more deaths and cases than us then goes on to say we should be following their example. I can't even wrap my head around how people come up with these things.


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    #1045
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Poor fella all the same.

    What is it that is so competitive between Austria and Switzerland, and Ireland that you want to follow their lead?


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    #1046
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,413 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Loozer wrote: »
    You're bang on about the press

    They'll switch to economic bad luck stories when there's no drama left in covid

    Yes the misery porn will need a new focus soon. Not enough drama in very old people dying in nursing homes, the rampant child deaths they were scaring people about never came about.


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    #1047
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    You mentioned leadership in your first point. Have you any evidence of leadership shown in Ireland during this crisis? The only sign of leadership is leading Ireland back to the 1930s.

    The second point you dont so something because another country is doing it- is exactly why Ireland went into lockdown.

    We went into lockdown because of the experience seen in other countries that showed if you allow the virus to run unchecked you will have high rates of infection leading to many more hospitalizations. That results in ICU capacity being overrun and a collapse of the health system. That means not only can you not cope with the Covid problem but you can't provide health care in anyway which leads to a huge number of deaths. Given Ireland's low ICU capacity this was of utmost importance. This is all pretty simple stuff and explained ad nauseam so everyone can understand the situation.


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    #1048
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    The same post which states they have many more deaths and cases than us then goes on to say we should be following their example. I can't even wrap my head around how people come up with these things.

    Been a lot of posts like that in the last couple of weeks.

    People, understandably, are desperate for the restrictions to be lifted so the arguments get ever more confused and contradictory.

    The fact we are not in position to that yet just gets placed to the side and often ignored.

    If front loading reopening were to happen, and that leads to a surge and re-imposition of restrictions, where will the same turn to for help then?

    The charge against them will be "you demanded this", "this is what you wanted"...

    Not worth it for the sake of a couple of months in my view.


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    #1049
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    We went into lockdown because of the experience seen in other countries that showed if you allow the virus to run unchecked you will have high rates of infection leading to many more hospitalizations. That results in ICU capacity being overrun and a collapse of the health system. That means not only can you not cope with the Covid problem but you can't provide health care in anyway which leads to a huge number of deaths. Given Ireland low ICU capcity this was of utmost importance. This is all pretty simple stuff andf explained ad nausem so even the more simple person can understand the situation.

    Would you be happy if we had enough ICU capacity to let the virus run unchecked?


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    #1050
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    What is it that is so competitive between Austria and Switzerland, and Ireland that you want to follow their lead?

    What do you mean 'competitive'? They are small European countries loosening restrictions, why wouldn't we follow their lead?


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    #1051
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Been a lot of posts like that in the last couple of weeks.

    People, understandably, are desperate for the restrictions to be lifted so the arguments get ever more confused and contradictory.

    The fact we are not in position to that yet just gets placed to the side and often ignored.

    If front loading reopening were to happen, and that leads to a surge and re-imposition of restrictions, where will the same turn to for help then?

    The charge against them will be "you demanded this", "this is what you wanted"...

    Not worth it for the sake of a couple of months in my view.

    What would be different in a couple of months? As you said, from a very very low base, South Kore has reimposed restrictions days after loosening them. How would we be different in 8 weeks?


This discussion has been closed.
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