Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Jinglejangle69

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Yes, it's a terrible indictment to our nation that these selfish individuals have caused this much hardship.

Sorry.

I left out obese.

Highest child obesity in the EU.

Go Ireland.

robbiezero

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sorry.

I left out obese.

Highest child obesity in the EU.

Go Ireland.

Link?

LiquidZeb

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Or maybe Sweden isn't a nation of alcoholic, smoking take away addicts?

20% of the swedish population is obese compared to 25% here. Sorry to shatter your Nordic Master race fantasy.

Kermit.de.frog

wakka12 wrote: »

New York and New Jersey have the same average age as Ireland..they were overwhelmed

Brazil and Mexico have very young populations are their hospitals are being overwhelmed.

The theory that this only affectes countries with elderly populations is a load of bs and there are more than enough examples around the world that show that by now

Also the different strains, Iran got hit particularly hard possibly due to a sharper strain of the virus for example.

LiquidZeb

Rodin wrote: »

Too tolerant on drug dealing in public.

Been there 3 times and have visited 6 major cities there. Never saw anything like that once.

Nermal

wakka12 wrote: »

New York and New Jersey have the same average age as Ireland..they were overwhelmed

Brazil and Mexico have very young populations are their hospitals are being overwhelmed.

Eagerly awaiting some evidence of hospitals being ‘overwhelmed’ in any of these places. No anecdotes or scare stories please, some data.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

Professor for the public understanding of risk at Cambridge calls the dominant Coronavirus narrative ‘number theatre’. Nice term.

wakka12

Nermal wrote: »

Eagerly awaiting some evidence of hospitals being ‘overwhelmed’ in any of these places. No anecdotes or scare stories please, some data.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

Professor for the public understanding of risk at Cambridge calls the dominant Coronavirus narrative ‘number theatre’. Nice term.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-25/coronavirus-brazil-health-system-close-to-collapse-covid19/12184912

Overwhelming of medical services in all of those places is well known

Rodin

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Been there 3 times and have visited 6 major cities there. Never saw anything like that once.

Gorlitzer Park in Kreuzberg, Berlin.
Open drug dealing.

Lined up in two rows like a Moroccan souk.

Have a look at Wikipedia entry for it.

Tell me how

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are correct on all the points you raise. I hope FG or FF or someone from the government buildings brings your post to the attention of our non elected officials.

It truly is baffling how we made so many mistakes so quickly. But its never too late to rectify things.

And I can guarantee you, Swedish model will be applauded for years and decades to come. You have WHO coming out and saying "maybe Swedish model is the best in the long run" for a reason.

More evidence that applause for Swedish model may not be as loud as you maintained.

https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/1259439216603402240

ceadaoin.

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-25/coronavirus-brazil-health-system-close-to-collapse-covid19/12184912

Overwhelming of medical services in all of those places is well known

Except new York wasn't overwhelmed.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday that the state had managed to stabilize coronaviris infection rates and averted fears that the hospital system would be overwhelmed.

Speaking at a briefing to reporters, Cuomo said that new cases had leveled off at a “manageable” 2,000 a day. “The health care situation has stabilized, the fear of overwhelming the healthcare system has not happened,” he said.

Cuomo credited the “phenomenal work of our front-line workers” and said the hospital system had managed to increase its capacity by 50% in just one month. He also credited the Federal Government and the Army Corp of Engineers who built a 2,000 bed overflow hospital at the Javitz Convention Center.

Just wondering is Ireland actually doing anything to increase capacity?

Kermit.de.frog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Except new York wasn't overwhelmed.

Only for the measures and increasing capacity it would have been completely overwhelmed.

frillyleaf

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Or maybe Sweden isn't a nation of alcoholic, smoking take away addicts?

There are a number of factors. I feel another factor in our capabilities to manage this is historical lack of in investment in healthcare and housing.
The frontline staff in HSE have spoke out about cuts and lack of investment.

Our housing wasn’t invested in either (even when the economy was at its best in years.) In Sweden significant proportion of adults are able to rent entire apartments by themselves. In Ireland we have situations where there are generations of people living under the same roof due to lack of available housing. We also have situations where large amounts of people are crammed into relatively small houses due lack of rental accommodation.

As to whether social distancing is needed in schools or not is questionable. However many schools are ‘temporary’ buildings that just became permanent. Some of these schools are quite small compared to permanent buildings so social distancing could be a big issue in these too.

MrDavid1976

Why has this thread turned in many ways to a philosophical discussion on the lock down. The numbers and the risk mandated the extraordinary decisions which were taken to shut down enterprise in an unprecedented way (this is now the 9th week of this). As a result of these efforts, the situation is now under control but not without other costs.

At this point in time, with the health risks diminishing due to the extraordinary actions and sacrifices taken the risks to not allowing enterprise reopen are becoming incredibly high (every week this goes on more business will fail) and the long term impact to the State are increasing day on day. These risks need to be part of the thinking as far more damage can be done without easing restrictions quickly while being mindful of the risks.

There was an abundance of caution in closing down and rightfully so, yet many who are arguing for a partial, socially distanced but accelerated reopening seem to be castigated as right wing Trump supporters who have no regard for the health of the community. Spain, France, Germany and others are moving quicker. Why can a hairdresser be open in Spain but not open here?

If there are problems with tracing and testing which is holding back reopening over 3 months after this need has emerged, why the hell are the Govt not highlighting this as a priority - week after week we are told we are nearly there yet we are not.

What is extraordinary also is that despite the numbers moving in the right direction and the low risk to younger people, State exams scheduled for 11 weeks time are not going ahead. Was a solution not possible? Do we lack any sense of imagination to find solutions around this - if I was looking at investing in this country this alone would tell me that the country is over regulated and inefficient.

All these types of issues will come out in the wash over the next few weeks. But the questions many on this forum are asking are very relevant.

Pressure on this madness of decision making is thankfully building as are serious questions around the transparency and governance of decision making at this point in time - glad to see Labour were asking for the public health and legal advice of the leaving cert decision.

pjohnson

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Only for the measures and increasing capacity it would have been completely overwhelmed.

Yep. How people can miss this is so bizarre. No more than the people claiming it wasnt too bad since the worst case scenarios didnt happen!

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A cowardly attitude has allowed a mild illness to cause havoc on our country.

Mild illness? It's mild or moderate for most people but it's severe or critical for others. It's disingenuous to call it a mild illness.

pjohnson

For all those praising the British policy, the general response in the UK is nobody really has a proper understanding of what the policy actually is. It's been received terribly by the public. The likes of Northern and Scotland will not be following it. Which is understandable since the UK is the worst hit in the EU. So not exactly what any nation wishes to be following.

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep. How people can miss this is so bizarre. No more than the people claiming it wasnt too bad since the worst case scenarios didnt happen!

Yes, I'm recalling the article where a paramedic described it as a daily 9-11.

timmy_mallet

Penfailed wrote: »

Mild illness? It's mild or moderate for most people but it's severe or critical for others. It's disingenuous to call it a mild illness.

Its disingenuous of you to claim that. The govts own advice is that 80% is mild. And that's of known cases. To suggest otherwise is bordering on hysteria.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

LiquidZeb wrote: »

20% of the swedish population is obese compared to 25% here. Sorry to shatter your Nordic Master race fantasy.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sorry.

I left out obese.

Highest child obesity in the EU.

Go Ireland.

I think you both need to go checking stats on that one.

Rodin wrote: »

Gorlitzer Park in Kreuzberg, Berlin.
Open drug dealing.

Lined up in two rows like a Moroccan souk.

Have a look at Wikipedia entry for it.

So one park selling marijuana indicades the entire country is lax on selling every drug...?

In any case, I'm very happy to accept that, as the country being well run and organised means I've been freely able to move around the city as I wish with very little inconvenience caused by restrictions.

LiquidZeb

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I think you both need to go checking stats on that one.



So one park selling marijuana indicades the entire country is lax on selling every drug...?

In any case, I'm very happy to accept that, as the country being well run and organised means I've been freely able to move around the city as I wish with very little inconvenience caused by restrictions.

Maybe you should check your own statistics pal.

Rodin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I think you both need to go checking stats on that one.



So one park selling marijuana indicades the entire country is lax on selling every drug...?

In any case, I'm very happy to accept that, as the country being well run and organised means I've been freely able to move around the city as I wish with very little inconvenience caused by restrictions.

I've only been to Germany for a week. Quickly saw that.

If they can't stop that kind of thing in one place it's likely happening elsewhere.

The majority of patients who I seen who died/ were severely ill with "no underlying conditions" were actually obese patients.

The only good thing is that obesity is a modifiable risk factor so people can always reduce their risk. Anecdotally, travellers seem to be be high risk for complications of COVID-19. Surprised Pavee point hasn't come out and accused the HSE of discrimination yet.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Maybe you should check your own statistics pal.

Who - or what - is jakubmarian.com...??
Anyone can make a map!

EDIT - never mind, typed it in wrong. In any case I miread your stats (thoguht you were implying the other way around).

the kelt

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-which-countries-are-under-lockdown-and-who-s-next

Its a week old but gives an idea of the plans of countries in regards to easing of restrictions. Obviously UK announced theirs yesterday

Safe to say we are a bit of an outlier, fair enough if we are, still havent heard a coherent reason as to why though.

I see the HSE admitted on Newstalk there still are problem with tracing of cases and testing turnaround times but "thats a further piece of work we need to do over the next couple of weeks",

Hmmm so coming up to when restrictions are meant to be eased it seems we still need a couple of weeks for the correct systems to be put in place just like we needed a few weeks to get our testing up to speed the last time we had an update in regards to easing restrictions.

Whats that i see out the window, is that a kite!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rodin wrote: »

I've only been to Germany for a week. Quickly saw that.

If they can't stop that kind of thing in one place it's likely happening elsewhere.

I've been living in Berlin most of the last ten years, and I can assure that what the idea that what happens in Berlin is replicated throughout Germany- espcially with regard to drugs - is a fairly daft assumption to make.

Anyway - as I said - it's not really a good indicator as to Germany and Berlin's approach to covid. Considering the city has about 1/3rd the infection rate and 1/7th the death rate per cpaital Ireland does.

MrDavid1976

the kelt wrote: »

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-which-countries-are-under-lockdown-and-who-s-next

Its a week old but gives an idea of the plans of countries in regards to easing of restrictions. Obviously UK announced theirs yesterday

Safe to say we are a bit of an outlier, fair enough if we are, still havent heard a coherent reason as to why though.

I see the HSE admitted on Newstalk there still are problem with tracing of cases and testing turnaround times but "thats a further piece of work we need to do over the next couple of weeks",

Hmmm so coming up to when restrictions are meant to be eased it seems we still need a couple of weeks for the correct systems to be put in place just like we needed a few weeks to get our testing up to speed the last time we had an update in regards to easing restrictions.

Whats that i see out the window, is that a kite!!

It is not a kite - it is incompetence. They have all the resources of the State at their disposal yet cannot manage this. This incompetence will cause the loss of jobs - the jobs we will need to kick start our society again.

Nermal

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-25/coronavirus-brazil-health-system-close-to-collapse-covid19/12184912

Overwhelming of medical services in all of those places is well known

LOL. Always 'on the verge of collapse'.

'If we didn't implement the measures, that field hospital we built wouldn't have been empty'.

Nonsense. No statistics, just anecdotes. Here's real data.

https://twitter.com/thomas_82/status/1259506805383651329

Nermal

Why are more people leaving hospital in Sweden, rather than entering it?

Herd immunity may be reached at 17%.

https://judithcurry.com/2020/05/10/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought/#more-26133

"A recent paper (Gomes et al.[7]) provides the answer. It shows that variation between individuals in their susceptibility to infection and their propensity to infect others can cause the HIT to be much lower than it is in a homogeneous population."

Ginger n Lemon

So, good morning.

I see that over the last 2 days, with more articles coming out saying "retirement age will be increased for the elderly, tax hikes will be required to pay back for covid payments" people in this thread are starting to lean towards lets get our country back to work rather than lets hide at home and get those new cases down to 10 per day.

Here is something interesting and controversial

Brazil president came out and said "Virus will not kill as many people as unemployment, this is why I do not want to lockdown the country"

It does seem like Bojo supports this

"Boris Johnson's call for Britain's workforce to return to their jobs has been widely criticised as "wrong" this morning, while London's road traffic has soared by 16 per cent compared to last week. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-end-lockdown-boris-johnson-new-rules-school/

I think countries are starting to realise (some of them quickly) that lockdowns will bankrupt and create poverty for ALL. All countries now seem to be desperate to get their economy back working, apart from us

FintanMcluskey

Nermal wrote: »

LOL. Always 'on the verge of collapse'.

'If we didn't implement the measures, that field hospital we built wouldn't have been empty'.

Nonsense. No statistics, just anecdotes. Here's real data.

https://twitter.com/thomas_82/status/1259506805383651329

The best thing to emerge from Covid is that that Ferguson guy will not be in the position to ruin any more lives with his bizzarly incorrect imagination.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nermal wrote: »

Why are more people leaving hospital in Sweden, rather than entering it?

Herd immunity may be reached at 17%.

https://judithcurry.com/2020/05/10/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought/#more-26133

"A recent paper (Gomes et al.[7]) provides the answer. It shows that variation between individuals in their susceptibility to infection and their propensity to infect others can cause the HIT to be much lower than it is in a homogeneous population."

Apparently, they aren't walking out.

Herd immnity is a tricky one to gauge as it's impossible to tell exactly how many people have been infected in total. In any case, their strategy will get them there quicker than most, but at the cost of a higher death toll.