Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

ixoy

padjocollins wrote: »

https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/

Clearly wrote it just so he could go to the pub sooner :pac:

padjocollins

Stark wrote: »

I'd love to believe what he says is true (must as I would have loved to believe that speculation around BCG vaccine protection was true). I don't want to set my hopes up for disappointment again though. Any third party reliable sources that can back-up/refute his claims? Went searching over the weekend but couldn't find any commentary on it.

good to be a bit sceptical. Antibody tests are key here. New York and Stockholm seem to indicate that they have over 20% of the population there had the disease . There are samples being taken in Munich and i'm sure other countries as we speak. i'm sure we'll have a much better view in a couple of weeks. It seems that imperial college paper scared a lot of people. read it myself and it scared the crap out of me.

It made some what seems to be false assumptions like the rate of increase and i think the death rate (open to correction). Time will tell but from what i can see on the worldofmeters his country predictions are following the same general patter from country to country

uli84

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Here's two critical health services that are most definitely paused.

Cervical Screening - https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/cervical-screening/cervical-screening-coronavirus.html

Breast Screening - https://www2.hse.ie/services/breast-screening/breast-screening-and-coronavirus.html

All screening programmes are suspended, I believe there are 5 altogether but glad to hear they are restarting 18 may if that’s true of course

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not the one who is saying that some endoscopy units have closed down. It's laughable that you think a hospital can just close down their endoscopy unit and to hell with the people needing an emergency endoscopy. :rolleyes:

Here's one for you: Connolly Hospital Endoscopy Unit has been closed for 4/5 weeks. The staff were relocated to Covid-19 duties. Now, you can roll your eyes all you like, but that is an immutable fact.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Could people please stop posting German R numbers? Its irrelevant.

If Germany have R of 1.5, and 0 deaths, do you really think they ll start re imposing restrictions? What if they have 10 deaths per day? country has 83,000,000 people living in it.

Countries have come to terms that A) you need to protect the elderly, developed vaccine with proven no side effects wont be ready until 2023-2025, C) lockdowns are way too disproportionate

I really dont see the benefit of having daily updates "30 new cases in South Korea" "German R number goes from 0.7 to 1.1" etc etc. posted here. Especially when you consider that German medical experts themselves say that looking at R rate over a short term period is counterproductive.

Did you type this with a straight face? Every other post you make is along the lines of, "Good news from 'x' country". Is it only okay to post something if it agrees with your narrative?

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

These are in no way emergency or essential services. Nobody is going to die because their scan/screen was delayed a couple of weeks.

Its likely been delayed 2 months now. Even if they get it up and running next week, the backlog would be significant.

Early detection is vital in cancer. Weeks mightn't make a difference, but months would.

If delay didn't matter, why do doctors recommend immediate surgery once tumours are found? Eg testicular cancer.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK, everybody needs to chill the beans here.

First of all, transplant surgeries are not going ahead as you need a stepdown ICU/HDU bed for post surgery.

Secondary, as part of the transplant process, you are going to be immunosuppressed. So a lot higher risk of ill effects of COVID-19.

And, oh wait..... what is the biggest reason people are in ICU at the moment?

COVID-19!

The reason that transplants are not going ahead at the moment is that the risk of doing the surgeries in these conditions is greater than any short term benefit the patient might gain.
Other points to consider:

What if patient who donated their lungs had COVID-19 and it wasn't picked up as no effective screening?
So the medical professionals are acting in the best interests of patients.

They can do it in Belfast - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-52552183

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

Did you type this with a straight face? Every other post you make is along the lines of, "Good news from 'x' country". Is it only okay to post something if it agrees with your narrative?

My friend, 150 + countries around the world agree my narrative of lift the lockdown restrictions.

And dont worry, we both know if there were body bags on the streets of Denmark, Norway, Czech republic you would be the first one to provide the link and say "aha, lifting restrictions early can result in many deaths, stop posting your "good news" posts" :pac:

batman_oh

Nice to know that the UK is letting people go anywhere they want from Wednesday and I have to wait until 20th July to go somewhere to clear the head out of the city. But hey I get to do 5km walks past hundreds of people on crowded footpaths to keep me sane until then!

jill_valentine

batman_oh wrote: »

Nice to know that the UK is letting people go anywhere they want from Wednesday and I have to wait until 20th July to go somewhere to clear the head out of the city. But hey I get to do 5km walks past hundreds of people on crowded footpaths to keep me sane until then!

Speaking only for myself, I'm not in a mad rush to emulate a country with some of the worst statistics in Europe...

Naos

batman_oh wrote: »

Nice to know that the UK is letting people go anywhere they want from Wednesday and I have to wait until 20th July to go somewhere to clear the head out of the city. But hey I get to do 5km walks past hundreds of people on crowded footpaths to keep me sane until then!

You're also aware they were only allowed out for exercise once a day right for the last six weeks right?

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I actually read this twice, couldnt believe you wrote this rubbish.

"It is estimated that 42,690 deaths (42,170 women and 520 men) from breast cancer will occur this year 2020.

Breast cancer is the second most common cause of death from cancer in women in the United States, after lung cancer. However, the number of women who have died of breast cancer has decreased by 40% from 1989 to 2007 thanks to early detection and treatment improvements."


You need to change your post. ASAP. The rubbish you posted is the sort of thing Tony H believed back in the day.

I stand by it. It's called screening. A delay in the manner of a number of weeks is not going to make a huge difference.

uli84

batman_oh wrote: »

Nice to know that the UK is letting people go anywhere they want from Wednesday and I have to wait until 20th July to go somewhere to clear the head out of the city. But hey I get to do 5km walks past hundreds of people on crowded footpaths to keep me sane until then!

It’s only 2.5 months later or in fact 3.5, stop moaning haha

batman_oh

jill_valentine wrote: »

Speaking only for myself, I'm not in a mad rush to emulate a country with some of the worst statistics in Europe...

I didn't say I was either. Not sure where you read that? The UK made a balls of it are in a much worse position now but still have allowed this. The 5km thing is ridiculous and as far as I know we are the only country that has such a limit that runs so long - it's basically trapping loads of people in small areas. I don't see how being allowed to drive somewhere and go for a walk is putting anybody in danger. You can't stay anywhere, eat anywhere and most likely won't be doing anything other than maybe stopping for petrol.

Surely people being crammed into places and being able to do nothing but go to the odd shop is more likely to spread it.

uli84

Naos wrote: »

You're also aware they were only allowed out for exercise once a day right for the last six weeks right?

I could only manage once a day anyways for last six weeks so not a big deal

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

Let's be honest, if they removed the nursing home deaths, end of life deaths, i.e. those people in their late 80 and 90's or those with multiple chronic illnesses, there would be fcuk all death attributable to the virus.

We've used a sledgehammer to crack a nut and destroyed the economy for hundreds of thousands in the process.

The numbers suggest the death figure outside care/nursing home settings is approx 70

tobefrank321

batman_oh wrote: »

I didn't say I was either. Not sure where you read that? They made a balls of it. The 5km thing is ridiculous - it's basically trapping loads of people in small areas. I don't see how being allowed to drive somewhere and go for a walk is putting anybody in danger. You can't stay anywhere, eat anywhere and most likely won't be doing anything other than maybe stopping for petrol.

Surely people being crammed into places and being able to do nothing but go to the odd shop is more likely to spread it.

Its also massively biased against rural inhabitants.

In Dublin most things are within 5km or just over it - shopping centres, city centre, airport, hardware stores, and family and friends.

In rural areas, the supermarket, other shops, friends and family, might be 20 km or further away.

They need to relax restrictions for low density counties with a low number of cases.

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Its likely been delayed 2 months now. Even if they get it up and running next week, the backlog would be significant.

Early detection is vital in cancer. Weeks mightn't make a difference, but months would.

If delay didn't matter, why do doctors recommend immediate surgery once tumours are found? Eg testicular cancer.

We are talking about screening for cancer here. Not actual confirmed diagnosis. You don't get surgery the moment your screen comes back positive.

is_that_so

batman_oh wrote: »

I didn't say I was either. Not sure where you read that? They made a balls of it. The 5km thing is ridiculous - it's basically trapping loads of people in small areas. I don't see how being allowed to drive somewhere and go for a walk is putting anybody in danger. You can't stay anywhere, eat anywhere and most likely won't be doing anything other than maybe stopping for petrol.

Surely people being crammed into places and being able to do nothing but go to the odd shop is more likely to spread it.

It's less about about distance than a psychological sense of being freed just a little bit. Paths aside, there are a lot more people out giving the car a spin.

Mike3287

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The numbers suggest the death figure outside care/nursing home settings is approx 70

Total?

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My friend, 150 + countries around the world agree my narrative of lift the lockdown restrictions.

And dont worry, we both know if there were body bags on the streets of Denmark, Norway, Czech republic you would be the first one to provide the link and say "aha, lifting restrictions early can result in many deaths, stop posting your "good news" posts" :pac:

It's you that is trying to dictate what people post about. I would ask that you stop with the patronising, 'my friend' shtick please. It's a little less patronising than a banned poster with his repetitive, 'poor man/poor friend' but patronising nonetheless. Thanks in advance.

dalyboy

Deleted User wrote: »

I stand by it. It's called screening. A delay in the manner of a number of weeks is not going to make a huge difference.

It’ll make the difference between being between stage 1 cancer or stage 4. There’s a huge difference in being diagnosed at the VERY earliest. Every doctor / consultant in the world would assert this as fact.

dalyboy

dalyboy wrote: »

It’ll make the difference between being between stage 1 cancer or stage 4. There’s a huge difference in being diagnosed at the VERY earliest. Every doctor / consultant in the world would assert this as fact.

How many cancers go from stage 1 - stage 4 in 4 weeks?

hamburgham

It’s awful the way business owners and the spokespersons for the various trade bodies have to pussyfoot their way around saying that the 2 metre distancing and other reopening ‘protocols’ are ludicrous. You just know they’re terrified of ending up with the Twitter mob on their back.

The Ryanair communications people have probably physically gagged Michael O’Leary to stop him coming out with anything. Can you imagine the frustration he feels. 3000 job losses announced and it barely makes the news.

dalyboy

Deleted User wrote: »

We are talking about screening for cancer here. Not actual confirmed diagnosis. You don't get surgery the moment your screen comes back positive.

That’s incorrect, I know 2 people pre lockdown days who were operated within 72 hours of diagnosis. They would be deceased now had that not been the case.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

We are talking about screening for cancer here. Not actual confirmed diagnosis. You don't get surgery the moment your screen comes back positive.

Yes we are talking about screening. The earlier you find cancer or pre cancerous cells the better. This is why weeks mightn't make a difference, but months can.

And the results can now take anything up to 24 weeks to come back at the current time.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0510/1137590-breastcheck-cervicalcheck/

is_that_so

dalyboy wrote: »

It’ll make the difference between being between stage 1 cancer or stage 4. There’s a huge difference in being diagnosed at the VERY earliest. Every doctor / consultant in the world would assert this as fact.

Are there actually any cancers that move from Stage 1 to Stage 4 in 2 months?
Having such profiles anywhere near a hospital setting over the period of this was far too high risk.

ixoy

tobefrank321 wrote: »

In Dublin most things are within 5km or just over it - shopping centres, city centre, airport, hardware stores, and family and friends.

Shopping is not limited to 5km so that's irrelevant.

Most people in Dublin have family and friends well outside 5km so that's not entirely relevant either (and plenty of them are not in an overlap either, certainly when there's fewer places to meet).

uli84

is_that_so wrote: »

Are there actually any cancers that move from Stage 1 to Stage 4 in 2 months?
Having such profiles anywhere near a hospital setting over the period of this was far too high risk.

Cervical or diabetic retina screenings are not done in hospitals

is_that_so

uli84 wrote: »

Cervical or diabetic retina screenings are not done in hospitals

So is a good or bad thing that they were all cancelled? It strikes me as a sensible call.