Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

timmy_mallet

batman_oh wrote: »

I didn't say I was either. Not sure where you read that? The UK made a balls of it are in a much worse position now but still have allowed this. The 5km thing is ridiculous and as far as I know we are the only country that has such a limit that runs so long - it's basically trapping loads of people in small areas. I don't see how being allowed to drive somewhere and go for a walk is putting anybody in danger. You can't stay anywhere, eat anywhere and most likely won't be doing anything other than maybe stopping for petrol.

Surely people being crammed into places and being able to do nothing but go to the odd shop is more likely to spread it.

Yes, but footpaths are a red bloody herring.

Walking past someone, no matter how close, has virtually 0% chance of passing/catching a virus. (Source for that? Have you 100% proof? Don't waste yer typing fingers)

Being in a room or relatively confined space for a lengthy period of time (nursing homes!), yes. But that's not going on anywhere other than supermarkets, and even then, there is essentially 0 community transmission. Footpaths, beaches, parks, etc. etc., all fine.

(Edit: I think I've replied to the wrong post, but, anyway)

SusanC10

Had 2 different messages today from 2 friends both saying that they intend to visit elderly Parents after the 18th. These Parents would be 2-3 hours drive away. Both friends have kids (all Primary age) who they will be bringing and will be staying overnight.
Parents have other Adult children living v close by.

I haven't seen my Mum since February mid-Term. She lives 3.5 hours drive from us. By my reading of the Restrictions I shouldn't travel to see her until after July 20th.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

dalyboy wrote: »

It’ll make the difference between being between stage 1 cancer or stage 4. There’s a huge difference in being diagnosed at the VERY earliest. Every doctor / consultant in the world would assert this as fact.

In a few weeks? Nah. Unlikely. If you're diagnosed stage 4, it was probably at that stage for months and months before diagnosis. The spread usually happens way before the symptoms start to show up.

That said, I think screening should be started back up because it is important to get it early.

Colibri

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Approx 70 people have died in Ireland in ICU. So 70 people were strong enough to recieve ICU treatment and subsequently passed on

Can someone explain this to me? I'm not being contrarian, I genuinely don't understand it.

Arghus

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Its also massively biased against rural inhabitants.

In Dublin most things are within 5km or just over it - shopping centres, city centre, airport, hardware stores, and family and friends.

In rural areas, the supermarket, other shops, friends and family, might be 20 km or further away.

They need to relax restrictions for low density counties with a low number of cases.

You could always travel beyond the 2km and then 5km distance to go to the supermarket, no matter where you are.

And you weren't supposed to be visiting friends and family, unless it was absolutely essential, whether they lived 100 feet away or 100 miles.

If you're going to debate the restrictions it'd be great if people knew what they were talking about. It is a bit of an ask, I know, but it's still very useful.

dalyboy

dalyboy wrote: »

That’s incorrect, I know 2 people pre lockdown days who were operated within 72 hours of diagnosis. They would be deceased now had that not been the case.

You are sure this is from screening? They wouldn't even have the histology back in 72 hours.

Sorry. I hope that anybody didn't think I was knocking screening. It's a valuable service but I don't think that it not been done for a month is as life and death as some posters think.

I'd broadly agree with ODBs points.

Stark

I remember having a benign but aggressive tumour about 10 years ago and that thing spread scarily quickly in the two weeks between diagnosis and surgery. Probably would have done serious damage if I had to wait 2 months to get it sorted.

tobefrank321

A short term pause in cancer screenings was probably a good idea until we slowed down covid 19.

But its not something that can be postponed long term and if it takes 24 weeks for results, that's dangerous especially if its an aggressive form.

polesheep

is_that_so wrote: »

Are there actually any cancers that move from Stage 1 to Stage 4 in 2 months?
Having such profiles anywhere near a hospital setting over the period of this was far too high risk.

That all depends on how you organise your hospital settings.

Whatever about the various stages of cancer, there can be no denying that from the moment of screening the clock is ticking.

dalyboy

Deleted User wrote: »

You are sure this is from screening? They wouldn't even have the histology back in 72 hours.

Don’t know what you are on about “histology”. They happened to be routinely checked by their GP , eg testicular cancer patient is routinely examined following a slight concern/pain. They get a ultra sound same day. Diagnosis is same day. Operation 72 hours later. This is typical when we are functioning pre lockdown. Now the service is non-functioning.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stark wrote: »

I remember having a benign but aggressive tumour about 10 years ago and that thing spread scarily quickly in the two weeks between diagnosis and surgery. Probably would have done serious damage if I had to wait 2 months to get it sorted.

If it was benign, it couldn't have spread though. Get bigger, yes, but it can't spread. That's what makes it benign.

is_that_so

polesheep wrote: »

That all depends on how you organise your hospital settings.

Whatever about the various stages of cancer, there can be no denying that from the moment of screening the clock is ticking.

Sure it is, but where we are coming from just now was really not that place. Starting it up again ASAP is the next move.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

dalyboy wrote: »

Don’t know what you are on about “histology”. They happened to be routinely checked by their GP , eg testicular cancer patient is routinely examined following a slight concern/pain. They get a ultra sound same day. Diagnosis is same day. Operation 72 hours later. This is typical when we are functioning pre lockdown. Now the service is non-functioning.

Ah, what? No way will that all happen on the same day. GP to ultrasound to diagnosis in one day? Not a chance. That was absolutely not how it worked pre-lockdown.

tobefrank321

Arghus wrote: »

You could always travel beyond the 2km and then 5km distance to go to the supermarket, no matter where you are.


And you weren't supposed to be visiting friends and family, unless it was absolutely essential, whether they lived 100 feet away or 100 miles.


If you're going to debate the restrictions it'd be great if people knew what they were talking about. It is a bit of an ask, I know, but it's still very useful.

You were unlikely to be stopped by gardai if they were 100 feet away or within 2km for that matter.

In the real world people visited each other - and a visit doesn't have to be inside - it can be outside and just a talk from a couple metres away. As we saw numerous times on the TV in recent weeks, kids visting grandparents but staying on the path outside.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You were unlikely to be stopped by gardai if they were 100 feet away or within 2km for that matter.

In the real world people visited each other - and a visit doesn't have to be inside - it can be outside and just a talk from a couple metres away. As we saw numerous times on the TV in recent weeks, kids visting grandparents but staying on the path outside.

Well, you're saying people are flouting the rules. So why do the rural restrictions matter to you then?

Stheno

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Yes we are talking about screening. The earlier you find cancer or pre cancerous cells the better. This is why weeks mightn't make a difference, but months can.

And the results can now take anything up to 24 weeks to come back at the current time.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0510/1137590-breastcheck-cervicalcheck/

The 24 weeks thing is one person and when brought up at Fridays briefing the NPHET team said they would look into it as it should be the case, different labs are used for smear test results

Stark

Stark wrote: »

I remember having a benign but aggressive tumour about 10 years ago and that thing spread scarily quickly in the two weeks between diagnosis and surgery. Probably would have done serious damage if I had to wait 2 months to get it sorted.

Was this picked up on a screen or were you symptomatic, symptomatic would be considered emergency. Like a benign tumour around the spine.

tobefrank321

dalyboy wrote: »

Don’t know what you are on about “histology”. They happened to be routinely checked by their GP , eg testicular cancer patient is routinely examined following a slight concern/pain. They get a ultra sound same day. Diagnosis is same day. Operation 72 hours later. This is typical when we are functioning pre lockdown. Now the service is non-functioning.

Testicular cancer diagnosis normally leads to an operation within days. Most survivors say it was critical to their survival.

Hopefully this area of the health service has not suffered with covid 19.

dalyboy

dalyboy wrote: »

Don’t know what you are on about “histology”. They happened to be routinely checked by their GP , eg testicular cancer patient is routinely examined following a slight concern/pain. They get a ultra sound same day. Diagnosis is same day. Operation 72 hours later. This is typical when we are functioning pre lockdown. Now the service is non-functioning.

That sounds.... implausible.

Discodog

Mike3287 wrote: »

It's why our lockdown is a waste of time

Travellers running around in every town with no regard for the law

Well in sunny Galway there are two, almost permanent checkpoints, on the Headford Road & only a mile or so apart. I am sure the fact that they are each side of a Traveller site is pure coincidence

Discodog

This is a brilliant article. He was interviewed on Liveline & I really recommend a listen - it's on the Liveline site now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-mass-testing-for-coronavirus-this-is-how-to-do-it-1.4229748

dalyboy

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Ah, what? No way will that all happen on the same day. GP to ultrasound to diagnosis in one day? Not a chance. That was absolutely not how it worked pre-lockdown.

It was reality as I was in contact with the patient throughout his ordeal. Admittedly it depends on the severity of the spread and malignancy risk however if they did not act quick in his case it would have been lethal

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

dalyboy wrote: »

It was reality as I was in contact with the patient throughout his ordeal. Admittedly it depends on the severity of the spread and malignancy risk however if they did not act quick in his case it would have been lethal

If that guy went from GP —> same day ultrasound referral —> same day diagnosis, that is highly unusual. Very much an exception. To say that pre-lockdown, that was the norm is just not true. Getting scheduled for an ultrasound alone would generally not happen the same day. Immediate cancer surgery does happen sometimes but it would also be rare and would be if the person was suffering from severe symptoms such as seizures from a brain tumour or a blocked colon from bowel cancer.

VillageIdiot71

Discodog wrote: »

This is a brilliant article. He was interviewed on Liveline & I really recommend a listen - it's on the Liveline site now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-mass-testing-for-coronavirus-this-is-how-to-do-it-1.4229748

Is this statement regarded as factual?

"Measures taken to suppress Covid-19 in Ireland have prevented unmitigated transmission and 50,000-75,000 deaths."

CruelSummer

Prof Sam McConkey on Mary Wilson this evening stating we need to get back to work because without an economy we will become poor. And when we’re poor we become very unhealthy.
Also stated that a lot of what Boris Johnson rolled out yesterday was very good. Recommended all Island co-operation on emerging from Covid 19 lockdown and learning to live with it. Said we need to watch Denmark and other countries for the next two weeks re schools and that it’s looking like children should be ok for school in September without masks if the data continues in the right direction. Finally someone sounding proactive.

Stheno

CruelSummer wrote: »

Prof Sam McConkey on Mary Wilson this evening stating we need to get back to work because without an economy we will become poor. And when we’re poor we become very unhealthy.
Also stated that a lot of what Boris Johnson rolled out yesterday was very good. Recommended all Island co-operation on emerging from Covid 19 lockdown and learning to live with it. Said we need to watch Denmark and other countries for the next two weeks re schools and that it’s looking like children should be ok for school in September without masks if the data continues in the right direction. Finally someone sounding proactive.

Sam McConkey said that? A few weeks ago he was the harbinger of doom and gloom saying the restrictions were not strict enough!

Penfailed

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Is this statement regarded as factual?

"Measures taken to suppress Covid-19 in Ireland have prevented unmitigated transmission and 50,000-75,000 deaths."

Impossible to prove.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

I stand by it. It's called screening. A delay in the manner of a number of weeks is not going to make a huge difference.

I am confused, why do you say number of weeks? Do you really think they stopped breast cancer check service for 2 - 3 weeks?

Did you forget we are in lockdown since mid March? Unless number of weeks in your definition is 5 weeks + then I would rather say number of months at this stage. I think you are overestimating how good HSE really is.

It will make a huge difference, that is exceptionally obvious and thats why its called "early detection". Not "few weeks later detection"

I am baffled we are even discussing this.

In the other news, didnt know Fintan from this thread is a part of NBRU.

"
The State must provide immediate guarantees of funding for its public transport companies which are experiencing significant financial problems, the National Bus and Rail Union (NBRU) has said.

The NBRU said it would not under any circumstances “entertain the notion of job losses as a result of decisions made by faceless bureaucrats”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-must-provide-funding-for-bus-and-rail-companies-says-union-1.4250480

Stheno

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Is this statement regarded as factual?

"Measures taken to suppress Covid-19 in Ireland have prevented unmitigated transmission and 50,000-75,000 deaths."

Ok only if we had had continual exponential growth

I think those figures are based on Neil Gergusons model

I think in Leo's last speech he said something like 2000 lives had been saved