Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

There's a difference between the actual front-line staff, and the bloated, inefficient admin and management behind them.

It's the latter people have problems with, not the former.

Also.. Twitter hashtags are meaningless, as is most of what's spewed on that or Facebook. I wouldn't take that as any indication of support (or lack thereof) anyway.

He said employees, HCA's cleaners, nurses etc are all employees of the HSE. His intentions are clear.

As an aside, I always knew that the general public would come to blame the employees. I imagine by end of June, they will be calling for more specific taxes on the public sector.

is_that_so

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The incompetence of the HSE and it's employees are holding the country back from reopening, with every delay more businesses will go bust and it'll be another nail in the coffin of the economy and our future.

As a country we pour money into the HSE, more than most countries, and get nothing but a shambles in return.

Hmm, HSE, incompetent, shambles, a nail in the coffin. Seems I've seen this post somewhere before. Not holding them up as a paragon of anything but they've generally responded well to this. For me it is the equivalent of getting a 60-mile long ship to change direction. It was never going to be pretty, deft, nimble or anywhere close to perfect. I think they have shown they can respond and they've got a guy at the top who can get things done. There is plenty that can go wrong but there is more optimism that it can get a lot better.

facehugger99

Watching Claire Byrne last night and the absolute shambles that has been made of nursing homes in this country, despite the forewarning we got from Italy and Spain about the demographic that was most at risk from this virus, would make your blood boil.

All presided over by Dr. Tony who is now systematically wrecking the economy and future for millions of our citizens in a cynical attempt to cover his arse.

It's absolutely criminal what is being allowed to happen.

In the coming months and years, this absolute sh't-show will be laid bare and the chronic mismanagement exposed. It'll all be too late by then of course. Dr Tony, Leo and Simon will be sipping pina coladas on their obscene pensions while we try and scrape together a future for our kids.

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

He said employees, HCA's cleaners, nurses etc are all employees of the HSE. His intentions are clear.

I honestly think you're picking it up wrong - when people think of the HSE in this context, they mean the admin staff which have a very poor reputation. They're not thinking of the people on the ground.

As an aside, I always knew that the general public would come to blame the employees. I imagine by end of June, they will be calling for more specific taxes on the public sector.

Well yes, and it's understandable to an extent - there's public and civil service workers who are on full pay but not working (workplaces are closed down for a number of departments and no, not everyone has been re-deployed) and private sector workers, also forced to close, receiving potentially far smaller payouts which are also going to be phased out.
Not saying that it's right to look at it that way, but it could quite likely happen.

mcko

Thanks for the reply my work pays me for 6 months so I am lucky I am not down money. Would love to go back but my health comes first.

MrDavid1976

ixoy wrote: »

I honestly think you're picking it up wrong - when people think of the HSE in this context, they mean the admin staff which have a very poor reputation. They're not thinking of the people on the ground.


Well yes, and it's understandable to an extent - there's public and civil service workers who are on full pay but not working (workplaces are closed down for a number of departments and no, not everyone has been re-deployed) and private sector workers, also forced to close, receiving potentially far smaller payouts which are also going to be phased out.
Not saying that it's right to look at it that way, but it could quite likely happen.

Any criticism I have in respect of HSE is the top management. And the Government in not putting enough pressure on. Do you think Haughey would have accepted the shambles that has happened? Not a chance.

is_that_so

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Any criticism I have in respect of HSE is the top management. And the Government in not putting enough pressure on. Do you think Haughey would have accepted the shambles that has happened? Not a chance.

Nah, Haughey would have taken a stick to the child with his finger in the dam!

polesheep

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, HSE, incompetent, shambles, a nail in the coffin. Seems I've seen this post somewhere before. Not holding them up as a paragon of anything but they've generally responded well to this. For me it is the equivalent of getting a 60-mile long ship to change direction. It was never going to be pretty, deft, nimble or anywhere close to perfect. I think they have shown they can respond and they've got a guy at the top who can get things done. There is plenty that can go wrong but there is more optimism that it can get a lot better.

The HSE can never get better. It is fundamentally flawed. It needs to be dismantled and replaced by something that is better thought out. And no amount of signs commissioned by the HSE thanking the HSE dotted around the country will change that. I'm not commenting on the staff btw, but the organisation itself.

Ginger n Lemon

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Streets in Paris still deserted.

Not according to reality I am afraid.

"PARISIANS PREFER SOCIAL GATHERING TO SOCIAL DISTANCING

After two months of isolation, some Parisians met along the Canal Saint-Martin, BFM TV reported.

Despite strict social distancing rules, the first day of easing lockdown did not go well in the French capital as crowds packed subway lines and train stations during rush hour."

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

In the coming months and years, this absolute sh't-show will be laid bare and the chronic mismanagement exposed. It'll all be too late by then of course. Dr Tony, Leo and Simon will be sipping pina coladas on their obscene pensions while we try and scrape together a future for our kids.

That immunologist lad that has spent the last few months admiring himself on the TV Luke O Neill, has now said that an extended break, like the 6 month break in Ireland, in childrens educations, hampers the development of the child by a considerable amount. It leads to poor educational performance and lower paygrades throughout life as well as incredibly high dropout rates from education and labor.
Irelands upcomming generation are now on course to the the poorest achedemically prepared in Europe for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
They have been s##t on and sacrificed, in the now and in the future for the sake of a nursing home fiasco.

PowerToWait

If the attitudes displayed in this thread are typical in wider society we have only postponed a surge.

Listening to the IBEC propaganda outlet that is Newstalk, with that harridan Ciara Kelly and the oafish Ivan Yates vociferously denying any need for restrictions, I am nervous for what's to come in the summer.

Ginger n Lemon

PowerToWait wrote: »

If the attitudes displayed in this thread are typical in wider society we have only postponed a surge.

Listening to the IBEC propaganda outlet that is Newstalk, with that harridan Ciara Kelly and the oafish Ivan Yates vociferously denying any need for restrictions, I am nervous for what's to come in the summer.

Dont be nervous and dont be worried or scared.

If you exhibit these characteristics you ll find yourself staying at home indefinitely while most people on the planet will be living a happy and joyful life. In fact, majority already are (just not in this country, not yet)

Also - below is interesting. It seems like Germany will lead EU not only in antibodies testing/quick lifting of restrictions but also perhaps law

"GERMAN COURT DEALS BLOW TO QUARANTINE RULE

A court in Germany’s Lower Saxony has ruled that the regional government cannot force everybody returning to the state from abroad to go into quarantine for two weeks.

The judges of the Higher Administrative Court said that the federal state's Infection Protection Act only allowed a quarantine order to be imposed on certain persons, such as those who are ill or suspected to be ill. Given the relatively low number of confirmed coronavirus cases among the global population, it was unreasonable to label all travelers entering Germany as suspected coronavirus cases, they said."

That last bit is so obvious, yet the propaganda coming from the government now of isolating EVERYONE who arrives is mad and people supporting that is also a bit mad. We treat 100% of arrivals as Covid19 suspects? People testing negative for covid around the world is about 96% of all tested. Common sense has left the building.

titan18

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You can quote them or you can quote New Zealand PM, at the end of the day UK people elected Bojo, Brazil people elected Bolsonaro with huge margins. (UK election was a monopoly sort of thing lol)

They make decisions that affect their nations, economically and health wise.

We have non elected officials shutting down our businesses for 5 months.

Real question is, if UK deaths in 2020 will be less than 2019, will they be branded as "success story" dealing with the "virus"?

Bolsonaro is driving Brazil into the ground. Anyone who thinks he's doing the right thing is as deranged as he is. Move to Brazil if you think he's a good leader.

Ginger n Lemon

titan18 wrote: »

Bolsonaro is driving Brazil into the ground. Anyone who thinks he's doing the right thing is as deranged as he is. Move to Brazil if you think he's a good leader.

I never said he is doing the right thing or that he is a good leader.

God I just give up.

Here, have a read of this, another leader running 150 million population country into the ground

"RUSSIA TO EASE LOCKDOWN AS CASES CONTINUE TO SOAR

Russian President Vladimir Putin today said that the country’s coronavirus lockdown will be eased from Tuesday, Reuters reported.

In an official address televised this afternoon across Russia, Putin said the “non-working period” would come to an end after six weeks and the easing of restrictions would affect all parts of the economy. The president also announced new welfare schemes for families and measures to support the economy."

It seems like we are the only place on earth who still havent lifted any restrictions as of 12th of May.

Loozer

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The incompetence of the HSE and it's employees are holding the country back from reopening, with every delay more businesses will go bust and it'll be another nail in the coffin of the economy and our future.

As a country we pour money into the HSE, more than most countries, and get nothing but a shambles in return.

Varadkar and holohan have done a reasonable job of shutting down the country

No more than Trump and Johnson they will deflect and refuse to admit any mistakes were made

MrDavid1976

What is absolutely crazy in all this is that the inability to address the testing turnaround is not a national scandal. This comes on top of the nursing home scandal. The damage this is doing is incredible.

ChelseaRentBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

HSE but matched my previous NHS benefits.

Very nice fair play.

seamus

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

What is absolutely crazy in all this is that the inability to address the testing turnaround is not a national scandal. This comes on top of the nursing home scandal. The damage this is doing is incredible.

Turnaround times are being addressed. They're down to 2-4 days. Still 36 hours too slow, but a lot better than a month ago. And they're improving all the time.

I'm not sure what nursing home scandal you're referring to. If you're talking about the claim that covid-positive people were transferred to uninfected nursing homes, then that has been debunked.

Pitch n Putt

Loozer wrote: »

Varadkar and holohan have done a reasonable job of shutting down the country

No more than Trump and Johnson they will deflect and refuse to admit any mistakes were made

The country is where it is now because nobody wants to be held accountable for anything.
This was a time for real leaders to stand up and be counted.

Leo Varadkar And Simon Harris have been useless baring a few media soundbites.

Let’s not forget here that Leo is a qualified doctor so not totally out of touch medically

They’ve pushed responsibility onto the CMO Dr Tony and he is trying to cover himself

If you end up with nobody taking responsibility you end up with what we have.

Cautious cautious approach all the way and long drawn out opening plan.

It doesn’t matter what the consequences to the country are once nobody has to carry the blame as they see it.

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Dont be nervous and dont be worried or scared.

If you exhibit these characteristics you ll find yourself staying at home indefinitely while most people on the planet will be living a happy and joyful life. In fact, majority already are (just not in this country, not yet)

Also - below is interesting. It seems like Germany will lead EU not only in antibodies testing/quick lifting of restrictions but also perhaps law

"GERMAN COURT DEALS BLOW TO QUARANTINE RULE

A court in Germany’s Lower Saxony has ruled that the regional government cannot force everybody returning to the state from abroad to go into quarantine for two weeks.

The judges of the Higher Administrative Court said that the federal state's Infection Protection Act only allowed a quarantine order to be imposed on certain persons, such as those who are ill or suspected to be ill. Given the relatively low number of confirmed coronavirus cases among the global population, it was unreasonable to label all travelers entering Germany as suspected coronavirus cases, they said."

That last bit is so obvious, yet the propaganda coming from the government now of isolating EVERYONE who arrives is mad and people supporting that is also a bit mad. We treat 100% of arrivals as Covid19 suspects? People testing negative for covid around the world is about 96% of all tested. Common sense has left the building.

You really pick and choose examples to suit your argument. Dozens of countries are implenting(or already have) harsh two week mandatory quarantine for anybody entering their country's. I dont know what is the right argument, but to say Ireland is one of the only places thinking along those lines is simply false

ChelseaRentBoy

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The incompetence of the HSE and it's employees are holding the country back from reopening, with every delay more businesses will go bust and it'll be another nail in the coffin of the economy and our future.

As a country we pour money into the HSE, more than most countries, and get nothing but a shambles in return.

Will you ever give over the hyperbowl. My partner works for the HSE and she is far from incompetent.

Doctor Jimbob

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

The country is where it is now because nobody wants to be held accountable for anything.
This was a time for real leaders to stand up and be counted.

Leo Varadkar And Simon Harris have been useless baring a few media soundbites.

Let’s not forget here that Leo is a qualified doctor so not totally out of touch medically

They’ve pushed responsibility onto the CMO Dr Tony and he is trying to cover himself

If you end up with nobody taking responsibility you end up with what we have.

Cautious cautious approach all the way and long drawn out opening plan.

It doesn’t matter what the consequences to the country are once nobody has to carry the blame as they see it.

They made the increasingly unpopular decision to shut the country down for an extended period of time.

The fact you don't like the decision being made doesn't make it a non-decision.

Stheno

seamus wrote: »

Turnaround times are being addressed. They're down to 2-4 days. Still 36 hours too slow, but a lot better than a month ago. And they're improving all the time.

End to end is still an average of 9 days for test, results and contact tracing, five days for test results (and that's a median and includes hospital lab results which are virtually same day) and four on average for contact tracing.

Pointless if it takes that long

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-irish-covid-test-and-trace-system-far-slower-than-experts-recommend-1.4250812

Testing people for Covid-19 and tracing all their contacts is taking an average of about nine days, according to the Health Service Executive (HSE), a multiple of the time most experts say the process needs to be to stop the virus spreading.

The median time from referring a person for a test to sending the result for contact tracing is five days, according to David Walsh, HSE national director of community operations.

The average time taken to then trace all the contacts of a confirmed case is four days, Mr Walsh told a National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) briefing, although “straightforward” cases are dealt with more quickly.

Mr Walsh said this was “an improving figure” and would shorten with the automation of the process in relation to negative results.

Deeper Blue

I'm sorry but nine days is absolutely pathetic

Birdie Num Num

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I never said he is doing the right thing or that he is a good leader.

God I just give up.

Here, have a read of this, another leader running 150 million population country into the ground

"RUSSIA TO EASE LOCKDOWN AS CASES CONTINUE TO SOAR

Russian President Vladimir Putin today said that the country’s coronavirus lockdown will be eased from Tuesday, Reuters reported.

In an official address televised this afternoon across Russia, Putin said the “non-working period” would come to an end after six weeks and the easing of restrictions would affect all parts of the economy. The president also announced new welfare schemes for families and measures to support the economy."

It seems like we are the only place on earth who still havent lifted any restrictions as of 12th of May.

For someone who likes to quote stats, you are 100% wrong there.

road_high

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

The country is where it is now because nobody wants to be held accountable for anything.
This was a time for real leaders to stand up and be counted.

Leo Varadkar And Simon Harris have been useless baring a few media soundbites.

Let’s not forget here that Leo is a qualified doctor so not totally out of touch medically

They’ve pushed responsibility onto the CMO Dr Tony and he is trying to cover himself

If you end up with nobody taking responsibility you end up with what we have.

Cautious cautious approach all the way and long drawn out opening plan.

It doesn’t matter what the consequences to the country are once nobody has to carry the blame as they see it.

I vote FG usually and wouldn't disagree with any of this. Far too much dithering and hiding behind so called experts. Harris is find particularly irritating as none of this rhetoric addresses any of the fall out from his major decisions.
No consultation or input from business or the public bar a few soundbites either. We pay the bills at the end of the day, including his.

Pitch n Putt

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Will you ever give over the hyperbowl. My partner works for the HSE and she is far from incompetent.

I’d imagine he talking more about Paul Reid / director general and upper levels of the HSE which is overloaded

We’ve heard from Paul Reid for 7 -8 weeks regarding the ramp up of testing and quicker turnaround for results but they failed to deliver this.

He had to tell us about the ppe that stacks the same height as liberty hall :rolleyes: and that 1 billion is going to be spent on ppe this year as deflection tactic from missing the magic 100 k promised weekly tests.

I wonder if he would tell how much the top echelons of the HSE staff is costing us annually for a substandard delivery.

is_that_so

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

The country is where it is now because nobody wants to be held accountable for anything.
This was a time for real leaders to stand up and be counted.

Leo Varadkar And Simon Harris have been useless baring a few media soundbites.

Let’s not forget here that Leo is a qualified doctor so not totally out of touch medically

They’ve pushed responsibility onto the CMO Dr Tony and he is trying to cover himself

If you end up with nobody taking responsibility you end up with what we have.

Cautious cautious approach all the way and long drawn out opening plan.

It doesn’t matter what the consequences to the country are once nobody has to carry the blame as they see it.

Not sure what criteria you're using here or what expertise you bring to these observations. Most people tend to wait till a project finishes before a review, not start in the middle of one. It means less of an enthusiasm to finger point and usually more reflection on future strategies. We'll be awash with reviews and reports after the end of this. Even the CMO seems very open to a review of how they approached it.

Article from Rory Kinnear about his sister who died from it. She had preexisting health issues that made her vulnerable. But realistically our situation could have been much worse. We have the highest prevalence of cystic fybrosis which would be particularly high risk. The perpetually outraged over the lockdown honestly don't seem to give a crap about how serious this could have ended up.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/rory-kinnearsister-protect-vulnerable-coronavirus-rory-kinnear

In related news, the UK have now had over 40k dead as a result of this. The real number is realistically higher.

Pitch n Putt

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

They made the increasingly unpopular decision to shut the country down for an extended period of time.

The fact you don't like the decision being made doesn't make it a non-decision.

Leo Varadkar will claim now and forever more that he was Advised to do so.

And once he can use that word advised he’s covered as far as he sees it and herein lies the whole problem with where we are and how we got here.