Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha, could tell you neither read them or the OP that was challenged

Yep. TL;DR.

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Plenty of antibodies tests in US and Germany to name a few got covid mortality rates of 0.12% to 0.37% (0.37 inflated and virologist believed its 0.24 to 0.26%)

All of this compares with flu 0.1% nicely.

People find this hard to believe because of huge financial damage Leo inflicted onto us but its true.

Fintan is right.

People need this to be worse than it is to justify what has been done to rest of our lives, and the utter screw up on the generation absent from school indefinitely.
People use self justification all the time after making a mistake, its a coping mechanism.
Screw up kids chances at a fair education? Ah sure we had to save lives though, thats the important thing.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Plenty of antibodies tests in US and Germany to name a few got covid mortality rates of 0.12% to 0.37% (0.37 inflated and virologist believed its 0.24 to 0.26%)

All of this compares with flu 0.1% nicely.

People find this hard to believe because of huge financial damage Leo inflicted onto us but its true.

Fintan is right.

Did you read back what you've just typed?! Virologists believe it is 0.25% which compares with the flu at 0.1%...! Yeah, it's only two and a half times worse!

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

Did you read back what you've just typed?! Virologists believe it is 0.25% which compares with the flu at 0.1%...! Yeah, it's only two and a half times worse!

Even Tony H admitted Covid is recorded as cause of death in all cases when it wasn't the proven cause. These are end of life and very old patients. The median is usually 2-3 years beyond average life expectancy

NIMAN

Penfailed wrote: »

Did you read back what you've just typed?! Virologists believe it is 0.25% which compares with the flu at 0.1%...! Yeah, it's only two and a half times worse!

Two and a half times worse than a virus that we don't really worry about.

Do you not see the posters point?

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Did you read back what you've just typed?! Virologists believe it is 0.25% which compares with the flu at 0.1%...! Yeah, it's only two and a half times worse!

If indeed it is only 2.5 times worse than the flu, it makes the cure, with all the economic damage and deterioration in public health and mental health, along with the increased deaths through no surgeries and transplants and missed cancer diagnoses, pretty disproportionate

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

People need this to be worse than it is to justify what has been done to rest of our lives, and the utter screw up on the generation absent from school indefinitely.
People use self justification all the time after making a mistake, its a coping mechanism.
Screw up kids chances at a fair education? Ah sure we had to save lives though, thats the important thing.

If indeed the death rate is as low and some (note, some, not all) data is pointing to, think that there is going to be a lot of attempts to justify the actions and manipulate the numbers upwards

Spanish Eyes

I am waiting to see how the re opening of things works out in other countries who are ahead of us.

I think that is ok. But others who are on the starting blocks here may not agree.

CruelSummer

Lyle wrote: »

Go and look up GGO - Ground Glass Opacities - as they relate to survivors of Covid19. There will be long lasting impacts for some people in their lungs, as well as probably other issues we just can't know about yet. It's safer, to instill a sense of caution in people, to assume there will be long lasting implications, even in people who only suffer a mildly symptomatic illness. We could see the need for a lot of respiratory clinics going forward in the next decade and beyond for people with reduced lung function.

Even just think, it can cause circulatory issues that are so serious that you can lose a limb because blood flow can drastically be impacted. I'd count the potential for losing a leg or an arm as a potential long lasting effect too, even if the chances are slim, the chances are there.

So yeah, maybe don't present the lack of long term effects so staunchly.

Those long term affects are only in people who develop severe cases. Stop scaremongering, many people see through such antics now.

I just want to draw attention to the fact that every single week and day that children are missing education, socialisation and access to the outside world the worse this will affect them. I have firsthand feedback of children becoming withdrawn, scared and worried for the future. This is unacceptable as the mortality rate does not justify this type of fear. Yes shield those at risk but the fact the rest of us are under lock and key until the end of July in unacceptable.
Six One this evening - nursing homes. Where are the overcrowded hospitals, thousands of sick people we were told was coming even with a lockdown..I have firsthand knowledge of a nurse being told take annual leave from a busy Dublin hospital DURING this pandemic. What a joke if things aren’t reopened and fast.

Nermal

Lord Sumption, a voice of sanity. Worth your time.

https://youtu.be/86P7EEJeNKM

'This is the worst interference with personal liberty in our history, for what is by historical standards, not a very serious pandemic'

Words that a former justice of the UK Supreme Court would not speak lightly.

Ce he sin

Deleted User wrote: »

If indeed the death rate is as low and some (note, some, not all) data is pointing to, think that there is going to be a lot of attempts to justify the actions and manipulate the numbers upwards

To be rivalled only by those attempting to prove that more people will die from suicide/drink/domestic abuse/whatever you're having yourself than have been saved by imposing restrictions.

Penfailed

NIMAN wrote: »

Two and a half times worse than a virus that we don't really worry about.

Do you not see the posters point?

The poster was making the point that it was the same as the flu. I was making the point that it's two and a half times worse. That's all.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If indeed it is only 2.5 times worse than the flu, it makes the cure, with all the economic damage and deterioration in public health and mental health, along with the increased deaths through no surgeries and transplants and missed cancer diagnoses, pretty disproportionate

I only claimed the bit up to your first comma. I didn't make any comment regarding the rest. I do tend to agree though.

_Kaiser_

Nermal wrote: »

Lord Sumption, a voice of sanity. Worth your time.

https://youtu.be/86P7EEJeNKM

'This is the worst interference with personal liberty in our history, for what is by historical standards, not a very serious pandemic'

Words that a former justice of the UK Supreme Court would not speak lightly.

Good interview, but the interviewer and his interrupting the guest and obvious personal bias was irritating.

Completely agree with Sumption's take on the situation.

Wibbs

TBH more and more I'm drifting towards the reopen and be damned. This almost never kills anyone under 40 and few enough under 50, even 60. The supposition around long term health effects is just that supposition, even in the serious cases that have recovered. It's quite simply too early to call it. Over the years I've known a few people who've had a flu or other respiratory illness that left them with dicky lungs for a few months after, requiring steroids and antibiotics. I've known others who were left fecked for more than a few months with long lasting fatigue and the like(ME or yuppie flu as they used to call it) and they were a rarity and we didn't shut down society over it.

Plus from what I've been seeing over the last few days in Dublin anyway is more and more people fed up with this bollocks and getting back into living. Still for the most part keeping their social distance, but definitely more people out and about.

As it is our border controls are a joke, quarantine is "advisory" and contact tracing is minimal and we're doing OK. Like I reckoned months ago our low population density and most people living in houses rather than apartments will be a major advantage.

IMHO I'd do it this way: Face coverings in all publicly shared spaces, inc work spaces where distancing is impossible. Keep as many working from home as we can. Cocoon the vulnerable groups like the elderly and others with compromised health, spend the welfare money there. Keep the pubs and the like shut. No large gatherings. Keep the schools shut until after the summer and see how we stand(creches will be an issue mind you). Open up the now fallow private hospitals to those folks with chronic conditions that need treatment. Mandatory quarantine/antibody testing at points of entry into Ireland(try and get the North on board with this, like happened with foot and mouth). Find what money that's left to restart parts of the economy that need it. See what happens.

Colibri

Question and I know this has no easy answer.

Let's say the young and fit go back to work. I'm young and fit.

Let's say that I have a family member at home who is at risk, a partner and two parents-in-law at high risk.

Does that mean I'll never see them?

Muscles Schultz

We should be skipping a couple of steps ahead on reopening and getting people back to work and active again. Fatality rates are minimal for the under 55s with no underlying conditions

Wibbs

Colibri wrote: »

Question and I know this has no easy answer.

Let's say the young and fit go back to work. I'm young and fit.

Let's say that I have a family member at home who is at risk, a partner and two parents-in-law at high risk.

Does that mean I'll never see them?

Sadly pretty much or you have to take extra care when interacting. And that's doable C. Pain in the arse, but doable.

Colibri

Wibbs wrote: »

Sadly pretty much or you have to take extra care when interacting. And that's doable C. Pain in the arse, but doable.

I had thought that. F*CK.

The HorsesMouth

Colibri wrote: »

Question and I know this has no easy answer.

Let's say the young and fit go back to work. I'm young and fit.

Let's say that I have a family member at home who is at risk, a partner and two parents-in-law at high risk.

Does that mean I'll never see them?

No I'd imagine that you'd be cocooning with them

niallo27

Colibri wrote: »

Question and I know this has no easy answer.

Let's say the young and fit go back to work. I'm young and fit.

Let's say that I have a family member at home who is at risk, a partner and two parents-in-law at high risk.

Does that mean I'll never see them?

If we get quick testing you could or if you get the thing and get immune to it then you could also.

Colibri

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

No I'd imagine that you'd be cocooning with them

I don't live with my partner though, so I'd never see her?

niallo27 wrote: »

If we get quick testing you could or if you get the thing and get immune to it then you could also.

I'd nearly get the f*cking thing

Del Griffith

Colibri wrote: »

Question and I know this has no easy answer.

Let's say the young and fit go back to work. I'm young and fit.

Let's say that I have a family member at home who is at risk, a partner and two parents-in-law at high risk.

Does that mean I'll never see them?

That's up to you to work out. Stopping the entire global economy over it isn't the answer.

Colibri

Del Griffith wrote: »

That's up to you to work out. Stopping the entire global economy over it isn't the answer.

I know that don't worry!

niallo27

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am waiting to see how the re opening of things works out in other countries who are ahead of us.

I think that is ok. But others who are on the starting blocks here may not agree.

You didnt know there was a 5km limit up to this evening, you thought we could visit family anywhere.

risteard7

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Looks to me like Tony is trying to pull the same stunt again.. Few days out from the easing of restrictions and here come the "warnings"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/we-have-more-work-to-do-says-dr-holohan-as-covid-19-deaths-rise-by-24-999124.html



He can fook off at this stage. I for one have had enough and will be ignoring any extensions (which is not the same as not still taking sensible precautions) and getting back to some sort of normality.

I doubt I'll be the only one.

Tony wont have anything to do then or no TV limelight.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha, could tell you neither read them or the OP that was challenged

So those links say that that the seasonal flu and covid -19 have similar fatality rates??

Just admit you made it up because it was a nice sound bite for your agenda.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

So those links say that that the seasonal flu and covid -19 have similar fatality rates??

Tony H isnt hounded for transparency like this and he's running the f##king country

You've seen links, you don't believe them worthy of consideration.

You obviuosly prefer Neil Ferguson's models or someone else that can justify how bad you want this to be.

hmmm

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus from what I've been seeing over the last few days in Dublin anyway is more and more people fed up with this bollocks and getting back into living. Still for the most part keeping their social distance, but definitely more people out and about.

It's not "bollox", and overwhelmed hospitals in Wuhan, Spain and Italy tell us what will happen if we let this go unchecked. We've done well to keep the numbers ill down, and that's bred an air of complacency - there's certainly no air of complacency in China, Spain, France & Italy. Most people I can see are behaving responsibly and doing what they can to protect each other, but there will always be a small percentage of people who think they are smarter and better than everyone else.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19

"Many people think COVID-19 kills 1% of patients, and the rest get away with some flulike symptoms. But the story gets more complicated. Many people will be left with chronic kidney and heart problems. Even their neural system is disrupted. There will be hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, possibly more, who will need treatments such as renal dialysis for the rest of their lives. The more we learn about the coronavirus, the more questions arise. We are learning while we are sailing. That’s why I get so annoyed by the many commentators on the sidelines who, without much insight, criticize the scientists and policymakers trying hard to get the epidemic under control. That’s very unfair."

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Tony H isnt hounded for transparency like this and he's running the f##king country

You've seen links, you don't believe them worthy of consideration.

You obviuosly prefer Neil Ferguson's models or someone else that can justify how bad you want this to be.

I never said they were worthy of consideration, I have read them and they say nothing about the flu mortality rate been the same or greater than covid-19. So I'll ask again. Where is the evidence that the flu and covid-19 have similar mortality rates?