Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

MrDavid1976

pjohnson wrote: »

Yet a lot in this thread seem to be refusing to learn to live with it and are demanding we go back to how things were pre-covid!

Where do you see those posts? I see people asking to see an accelerated easing of restrictions subject to social distancing and protecting the vulnerable. No one has been calling for Coppers to reopen.

is_that_so

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I am of the view that it was justified. We needed to get on top of things. Now we are on top of things in terms of patient numbers, ICU capacity, the R rate etc. but we cannot accelerate the easing of our restrictions because the HSE has still not sorted the testing and tracing system. Rather than looking at us with disapproval they should be looking at themselves.

It is actually sorted as a system just not a fast enough process overall. We now have the capacity for 100,000 tests and most cases are now being dealt with within 4 days, including tracing. Hospitals are doing it in 24 hours. There are delays in completing the tracing, some related to incomplete initial data and some due to IT bottlenecks but all being worked on.

paw patrol

hmmm wrote: »

We all have to do our bit to try and stop this virus spreading, no-one is finding this easy. If you don't want to take responsibility, the rest of us will have to try harder to make up for you.

i appreciate your sacrifice :rolleyes:

KerryConnor

KerryConnor wrote: »

Or you can do what our government seems to be aiming for and can choose to get the cases down to v low numbers, then using behaviour /testing/quarentine keep a close control of it. If numbers are low enough life could continue almost as normal, no social distancing needed in schools for example . The payoff would be no casual travel in and out of country. But if it works its worth it til they find decent treatments. Which will hopefully be soon considering the monumental effort being made around the world. Other countries will be restricting travel too so its not like the options will be there like before

cases are already down far below what Dr Tony and Mr Simon recommended at the beginning! We have done our bit - and then some! All we get is admonishment and "we need to do more" . No Tony, YOU need to do more. YOU need to get testing and tracing up to speed ASAP YOU are going to be responsible for the wrecking of this economy. Irish citizens have done brilliantly and continue to do so.

Clonmel1000

The thought of no casual travel into and out of the country as suggested above is a grim one. Surely this isn’t an option in 2020. Travel will have to go side by side with C19 as will everything else. Perspective is sadly missing from a lot of the debate in Ireland and what’s actually worrying is the amount of stay at homers who seem content that the economy is shagged that business is fuxked that people can’t travel or can’t even get a haircut FFS. What sort of sad lives do these people lead?

MrDavid1976

is_that_so wrote: »

It is actually sorted as a system just not a fast enough process overall. We now have the capacity for 100,000 tests and most cases are now being dealt with within 4 days, including tracing. Hospitals are doing it in 24 hours. There are delays in completing the tracing, some related to incomplete initial data and some due to IT bottlenecks but all being worked on.

There are still delays and that is the issue - those delays will have serious economic ramifications. All over the Irish Times today and rightfully so.

Maybe I am harsh but Denmark and New Zealand were able to up their game on this. Others have met this unique challenge. Why can’t we? There has been a blank cheque for this.

KerryConnor

I think it's just we need to do it properly. What's an extra few weeks after the effort we ve made. If we pace the unceasing right then we can keep It under control.
I'm speaking as someone whose husband has been just been made redundant. And yeah we re worried. But not enough to feck it up. my parents are 70s and I'd prefer a safer world for them (and maybe my husband even a heavy smoker/esmoker in his mid 40s).

The economy is a huge worry but a few weeks isn't going to make a difference. It will recover. if you knew you were going to loose someone you love to this you'd be roaring at them to take their time and do it right.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

cases are already down far below what Dr Tony and Mr Simon recommended at the beginning! We have done our bit - and then some! All we get is admonishment and "we need to do more" . No Tony, YOU need to do more. YOU need to get testing and tracing up to speed ASAP YOU are going to be responsible for the wrecking of this economy. Irish citizens have done brilliantly and continue to do so.

KerryConnor

I think it's just we need to do it properly. What's an extra few weeks after the effort we ve made. If we pace the unceasing right then we can keep It under control.
I'm speaking as someone whose husband has been just been made redundant. And yeah we re worried. But not enough to feck it up. my parents are 70s and I'd prefer a safer world for them (and maybe my husband even a heavy smoker/esmoker in his mid 40s).

The economy is a huge worry but a few weeks isn't going to make a difference. It will recover. if you knew you were going to loose someone you love to this you'd be roaring at them to take their time and do it right.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

cases are already down far below what Dr Tony and Mr Simon recommended at the beginning! We have done our bit - and then some! All we get is admonishment and "we need to do more" . No Tony, YOU need to do more. YOU need to get testing and tracing up to speed ASAP YOU are going to be responsible for the wrecking of this economy. Irish citizens have done brilliantly and continue to do so.

MrDavid1976

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Maybe I am harsh but Denmark and New Zealand were able to up their game on this. Others have met this unique challenge. Why can’t we? There has been a blank cheque for this.

Because we are talking about the HSE here - thats why! This organisation wastes more money per annum than other other Government funded agency. It consistently runs over budget, they now say they will need an extra €1billion a year for PPE - even though this PPE could be sourced here in Ireland by 2021 , production could easily be ramped up and subsidised by Govt at a cheaper rate than writing the HSE a cheque for €1billion to import it from CHina.

Another alternative is re-usable PPE (in time) washed at 100 degree by specialised contracts cleaners who just deal with medical professions. That creates jobs here too, both in production and cleaning, jobs we will crucially need! Both these suggestions were made by a medical expert yesterday on Newstalk. Its called THINKING - something the HSE is incapable of.

These demands from the HSE will know no bounds as time goes on

tobefrank321

Penfailed wrote: »

I know this. I quoted a poster who said that, "...with daily numbers at zero in some counties, it's no longer justified." I was pointing out that some of those counties are no longer at zero.

The 3 new cases sound like they might be a cluster. It could be related to a DPC for example. The 3 people involved need to isolate for 2 weeks and contact tracing carried out. This is a good test of how we can co-exist with it going forward. We should not be shutting down a county because of 3 new cases. That would be insanity. Its 3 cases, not 300 or 3000 cases.

iamwhoiam

Every single person I have spoken to this week is totally peed off that the lifting of restrictions could be delayed by the HSE's failing to get the testing in place .The vast majority I speak to are law abiding sensible people and are not going to comply if the restrictions are not lifted . They are happy to be aware , careful , wear masks , wash hands, socially distance and stay in 5kms but not happy at all to keep a lockdown going . I will admit neither am I , enough is enough and 8 weeks is way beyond what was said in the beginning .Get a bloody move on with the testing let us get out and be careful now

is_that_so

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

There are still delays and that is the issue - those delays will have serious economic ramifications. All over the Irish Times today and rightfully so.

Maybe I am harsh but Denmark and New Zealand were able to up their game on this. Others have met this unique challenge. Why can’t we? There has been a blank cheque for this.

Yeah, it's all the stuff deGascun said last night and that headline is a bit dramatic, but that has been the IT line throughout this. The IT stuff seems really about automation, which should be very fixable as is data gathering. They are at about 4-5 days but each one of those tweaks brings them lower again.
I don't think people appreciate just how long it takes to get a new system working at full capacity. It has only been about 8 weeks. They said very early on, that such a system would normally take a lot longer and that this period would just be the modelling of it.

KerryConnor

KerryConnor wrote: »

I think it's just we need to do it properly. What's an extra few weeks after the effort we ve made. If we pace the unceasing right then we can keep It under control.
I'm speaking as someone whose husband has been just been made redundant. And yeah we re worried. But not enough to feck it up. my parents are 70s and I'd prefer a safer world for them (and maybe my husband even a heavy smoker/esmoker in his mid 40s).

The economy is a huge worry but a few weeks isn't going to make a difference. It will recover. if you knew you were going to loose someone you love to this you'd be roaring at them to take their time and do it right.

my own mother is in a nursing home - I was speaking to her yesterday and even she said its ridiculous that the country has been completely shut down and thousands of people are at home instead of at work!!

There is risk in everything. Life has to go on. Covid is not going away even if we sit at home for a year. Fear has taken over common sense. I am working, I am walking, cycling, shopping. Yesterday I went to the dentist, I had a service engineer for my water filter system, windows washed, a new washing machine delivered by Harvey Norman. Life is going on and it has to. Fear is keeping lots of people locked up at home doing nothing .
I for one was delighted to support the economy doing all of the above and helping local businesses get back on their feet.

AdamD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Use your own common sense.

What do you think is going to happen? Another surge, another lock down. Inevitable.

As soon as you take your foot off you have to put it back down again as in SK...

https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker/status/1260373502256791552

We need a vaccine.

This is going to happen whenever we open, be it tomorrow, 6 weeks or bloody October. So enlighten me, what is the actual goal at this point?

Seems we're delaying and drawing out the inevitable. We do need this to spread somewhat or we'll be waiting for a vaccine that may never happen.

Ellie1988

KerryConnor wrote: »

I think it's just we need to do it properly. What's an extra few weeks after the effort we ve made. If we pace the unceasing right then we can keep It under control.
I'm speaking as someone whose husband has been just been made redundant. And yeah we re worried. But not enough to feck it up. my parents are 70s and I'd prefer a safer world for them (and maybe my husband even a heavy smoker/esmoker in his mid 40s).

The economy is a huge worry but a few weeks isn't going to make a difference. It will recover. if you knew you were going to loose someone you love to this you'd be roaring at them to take their time and do it right.

You say "what's an extra few weeks"... an extra few weeks wont make the world safer for vulnerable people. But it will destroy more businesses and livelihoods.

My god, some of you people are in for a serious shock when the reality of the economic damage becomes apparent.
A few weeks won't make a difference to the economy? Really? Well, first of all, its not a few weeks is it? Its 3 months. And yes, a few weeks does make a huge difference to the economy!!!

If we can easily afford it, why not go into lockdown every flu season?

Time to wake up. We are destroying the economy every day and killing thousands in the years to come.
Everyday we stay in lockdown, the bill gets bigger and the pot gets smaller.

road_high

Ellie1988 wrote: »

You say "what's an extra few weeks"... an extra few weeks wont make the world safer for vulnerable people. But it will destroy more businesses and livelihoods.

What’s an extra few weeks on top of months already? Oh just another few billion in welfare payments and borrowed money that we don’t have.
Not to get too personal but for someone who’s husband has lost his job to all this your post seems remarkably naive to me.

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Every single person I have spoken to this week is totally peed off that the lifting of restrictions could be delayed by the HSE's failing to get the testing in place .The vast majority I speak to are law abiding sensible people and are not going to comply if the restrictions are not lifted . They are happy to be aware , careful , wear masks , wash hands, socially distance and stay in 5kms but not happy at all to keep a lockdown going . I will admit neither am I , enough is enough and 8 weeks is way beyond what was said in the beginning .Get a bloody move on with the testing let us get out and be careful now

Except that it's not true but our journalists are incapable of processing what they are told. The IT, for example, are on a crusade about this and have been since the beginning. Hospitals are 24 hours, simple community cases are 3-4 days and it's the complex ones, typically missing data or communication issues that are bringing the average down.

There are five criteria BTW, not just testing

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity
Testing and contact tracing
Shielding at risk groups
Secondary morbidity and mortality

seamus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Use your own common sense.

What do you think is going to happen? Another surge, another lock down. Inevitable.

As soon as you take your foot off you have to put it back down again as in SK...

South Korea has some unique conditions to be fair. A spate of clusters originating in nightclubs but nowhere else, smells very much like deliberate spread to me. One of South Korea's first Covid patients infected 1,000 others deliberately by attending crowded spaces when unwell (churches mainly).
Could be the same religious cult, or an offshoot. Or some other lunatic.

Until we see similar patterns elsewhere, we can't call it inevitable.

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Maybe I am harsh but Denmark and New Zealand were able to up their game on this. Others have met this unique challenge. Why can’t we? There has been a blank cheque for this.

I mentioned it earlier but we're coming from a much lower base. These countries had better health systems, better processes, better interconnectedness in their civil service, more local resources.
We're rebuilding from the bottom. The HSE have today said that a large chunk of the delays in testing & tracing come down to manual transcription errors (i.e. use of pen & paper), lack of automation, and hospitals having incompatible computer systems.
These are solved problems, problems that other countries dealt with a decade ago through investment. We didn't. We didn't invest and we allowed vested interests to block progress.

So even with all the money in world, there are basic functional issues that had/have to be solved before we can approach the efficiency of other countries.

Hopefully in the long term this will stop people whinging about healthcare pay, about the amount of money the country spends on healthcare, as we come to realise that you spend lots of money on health so that your healthcare system is there for you when you really need it.

iamwhoiam

is_that_so wrote: »

Except that it's not true but our journalists are incapable of processing what they are told. The IT, for example, are on a crusade about this and have been since the beginning. Hospitals are 24 hours, simple community cases are 3-4 days and it's the complex ones, typically missing data or communication issues that are bringing the average down.

There are five criteria BTW, not just testing

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity
Testing and contact tracing
Shielding at risk groups
Secondary morbidity and mortality

Yes I know all that .And four of them are improving and where we were told we need to be. One is not and thats the tracing .

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

For all the people slagging Ireland's approach - here's the views of an English fella about their approach -

Incoherent and arbitrary.

Some newspaper wag pointed out that it would be cheaper to replace UK buses with limousines given that they now only take one or two passengers.

ek motor

Deleted User wrote: »

If we can easily afford it, why not go into lockdown every flu season?

SARS-CoV-2 is a far more dangerous (and transmissible) virus than influenza.

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes I know all that .And four of them are improving and where we were told we need to be. One is not and thats the tracing .

They say it is, but in small increments. I think Henry said they are aiming to get inside 4 days imminently.

JoeA3

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Where do you see those posts? I see people asking to see an accelerated easing of restrictions subject to social distancing and protecting the vulnerable. No one has been calling for Coppers to reopen.

Ignore him. Vast majority of his posts on here are one pointless one liners like that, that offer nothing of value, other than some kind of lame windup. Suppose it's how some get their kicks.

iamwhoiam

Tonys words when pushed by a journalist how low our numbers need to be was “ as low as possible “
That is not an answer it is a tactic to enable them to move the goal posts to suit the HSE. As low as possible is zero and that is not achievable

Penfailed

Speakerboxx wrote: »

I wont have tony telling me what i can or can't do after the 18th may. You are probably upset now that your 'stay at home' approach is coming to a close and that everyone is trying to get back to some sort of normality.

I'm already back at work.

Speakerboxx

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm already back at work.

So am I.

The_Brood

Govermnent is saying no to people going on summer holidays. Sorry but whats the point of working year round then? Just to boost the profits of corporations? That is the sum total reason for our existence? Maybe we need a complete and total restructuring of society and work that is based on human reason and not on profit. Will that happen before the summer? Hah.

I guess for those of us who dont have a car we will be taking the summer holidays in our bathroom. Before back to work for the corporations!

Hooked

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm already back at work.

I was never NOT at work...

Just given a letter, for the Gardaí, and told that I had to be IN THE OFFICE!
Despite working at a computer... work that could easily be done from home!

I bit my lip, as I made internal changes that immediately refused any traffic into my office (only 3 staff in here). No clients. No other staff... Use the phone, email, and I remote desktop to other computers. Simple changes...

Which is why I've had enough of this lockdown BS. I'm fully capable of living a full life, while being VERY careful not to contract Covid19. Seeing family, drinking with friends of an evening, and using PPE where necessary.

Speakerboxx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Tonys words when pushed by a journalist how low our numbers need to be was “ as low as possible “
That is not an answer it is a tactic to enable them to move the goal posts to suit the HSE. As low as possible is zero and that is not achievable

Thats what is sickening about all of this. Tony is not telling us everything. Therefore, it's in everyone's best interest to get their lives back to normality after the 18th while practicing safe measures while doing so. Nobody will be adhering to some of the nonsense restrictions after that i.e 5km or 20km rule. That's a joke especially if you won't be in contact with anyone.