Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

the kelt wrote: »

People should be rejoicing when they see other countries easing lockdown restrictions and being successful yet they spend most of their time frantically googling how can they prove its a bad idea!! I dont get that.

The same when Sweden is mentioned, i mean wouldnt it be great if the Swedish approach is successful, why are people hell bent on hoping and praying it wont be?

We have had enough fear. Time to start looking forward without fear.

Yeah, then they link you an island in Japan that you never heard about who went into 2nd lockdown and say "Aha! There, there is the mighty 2nd wave!"

Total cases on that island (1st + 2nd wave) = 984. Total population: 5,281,000

Talk about putting 2nd wave discussion to bed.

Good to hear about Leo. He could be a villain turn hero with a bit of courage. He isnt a hero we deserve, but the one we need.

thegetawaycar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

EU looking to get travel within the EU moving again as soon as.

The EU is proposing a three-stage approach, starting with the current situation in which most non-essential travel across borders is banned.

In the next phase, the EU wants border restrictions lifted between countries and regions at a similar stage of the pandemic, and where the health situation is improving.

In the final phase, all coronavirus-related border controls would be lifted and travel permitted throughout Europe once again.

Brussels is urging governments to consider economic and social factors as well as health as they weigh up reopening their borders

Unless the EU do more to support financially I don't think they should be deciding when each country opens borders. If they want to cover costs of checks etc... then I'd expect they have some say

Countries went their own way when closing borders without EU go ahead and I expect the re-opening to be the same

stephenjmcd

Leo has his say on what the EU came out with today
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseach-says-prospect-of-air-travel-is-months-rather-than-weeks-away-999322.html

boring accountant

Penfailed wrote: »

Realistically, there's nothing to stop you going abroad tomorrow. There's flights leaving daily from Dublin.

Whether you’ll make it to the airport before being turned around by the Gardai is still a major question mark.

There’s also the fear of being stranded if the rules change mid holiday

Penfailed

boring accountant wrote: »

Whether you’ll make it to the airport before being turned around by the Gardai is still a major question mark.

There’s also the fear of being stranded if the rules change mid holiday

Good point.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Leo has his say on what the EU came out with today
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseach-says-prospect-of-air-travel-is-months-rather-than-weeks-away-999322.html

Leo is clearly following Dr Tony and WHO.

are we so slow at lifting restrictions cus we are following WHO?

"Tedros said. He added that the WHO understands the economic costs of shutdown measures and encourages countries to take “a slow, steady” approach in lifting restrictions."

absolute rubbish.

Nermal

Nermal wrote: »

The government has stated on more than one occasion that it simply implements whatever he advises, so de-facto he does have power.

Ministerial-led gerontocratic rebellion regarding over-70s being allowed to exercise being the only exception to this we know of.

Two points - the group that he leads, not him personally, and its the governments prerogative whether to follow the advice or not. By simply choosing one recommendation not to implement they immediately remind the NPHET where the power lies. There may be signs with the comments today on schools following the HIQA report that that is starting, as this was not something previously flagged by Holohan

stephenjmcd

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rush-of-applications-expected-as-pubs-can-apply-for-licences-to-open-as-restaurants-999309.html

Thought pubs that do food would have had a licence to operate as restaurants as well already?

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rush-of-applications-expected-as-pubs-can-apply-for-licences-to-open-as-restaurants-999309.html

Thought pubs that do food would have had a licence to operate as restaurants as well ?

Absolutely disgraceful what this government is making pubs go through, soon pub owners will apply for hardware licence to sell some hammers just to open up.

Its quite clear that we have some very desperate businesses trying to sell SOMETHING before 10th of August or face bankruptcy. Poor German Finance minister would've resigned in shame if he was overseeing this carry on.

Colibri

I'm so conflicted.

On the one hand, we've known from the start what flattening the curve meant. It was not to find a vaccine or treatment, but to ensure hospital capacity wasn't overloaded while we looked for a treatment that could help.

I knew this, but I somehow lost the message (partly by going on Twitter).

I'm still the "stay at home" type as are many people, but we knew from the very start that the lockdown was to flatten the curve in anticipation of a second wave. We've not had a *first* wave, CMO said himself.

Why the feck am I so afraid though?

KrustyUCC

marno21 wrote: »

Indeed. Right now countries in the south of Europe are preparing to reopen their tourism industries meanwhile I can’t drive to Ballinhassig (7km away)

Hard to envision major change in this country with that mindset

Yup its mad

I wont be able to visit relations legally until 20th July

For a lot on my GAA Club they are members of a golf course 35km away

Have been for years

Golf club open next Monday but they can't legally play until 20th July

That's all things going well in the plan as I can't see Tony & Co deviating from the plan at all

Colibri

Then again, the HSE's capacity for testing & tracing is woejus. This will be our biggest disadvantage in lifting restrictions.


Ahhh I don't know what to think.

Pitch n Putt

Cancelled the leaving cert last Friday and now today 5 days later our leader Leo Varadkar states that one of the safest things we can do is open the schools

What in the name of good god is going on in this country.

We’re running a comedy show but there’s nothing funny about what’s going to be happening when budget time comes around.

Stheno

Colibri wrote: »

I'm so conflicted.

On the one hand, we've known from the start what flattening the curve meant. It was not to find a vaccine or treatment, but to ensure hospital capacity wasn't overloaded while we looked for a treatment that could help.

I knew this, but I somehow lost the message (partly by going on Twitter).

I'm still the "stay at home" type as are many people, but we knew from the very start that the lockdown was to flatten the curve in anticipation of a second wave. We've not had a *first* wave, CMO said himself.

Why the feck am I so afraid though?

What age are you roughly? 20s/30s/40s etc?

Do you have any underlying conditions and are you a healthy weight?

Colibri

Stheno wrote: »

What age are you roughly? 20s/30s/40s etc?

Do you have any underlying conditions and are you a healthy weight?

28, no underlying conditions and I've been lighter (not heavy though, just this damn lockdown comfort eating).

It isn't so much me I'd be worried about but the 4 people that are very close to me that are genuinely high risk.

Stheno

Colibri wrote: »

28, no underlying conditions and I've been lighter (not heavy though, just this damn lockdown comfort eating).

It isn't so much me I'd be worried about but the 4 people that are very close to me that are genuinely high risk.

Are those 4 people living with you?

Pitch n Putt

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Cancelled the leaving cert last Friday and now today 5 days later our leader Leo Varadkar states that one of the safest things we can do is open the schools

What in the name of good god is going on in this country.

We’re running a comedy show but there’s nothing funny about what’s going to be happening when budget time comes around.

Report he based his comments on specifically mentioned under 14s I believe. They just don’t seem to have the same viral load

Colibri

Stheno wrote: »

Are those 4 people living with you?

1 is, the other 3 are my partner and her parents, and I'd spend (normally) a lot of time with them.

growleaves

https://time.com/5834708/court-kentucky-ban-mass-gatherings-churches-coronavirus/

KrustyUCC

“I don’t think it would be a good reflection on us as a society if we were the last people able to reopen our schools and childcare facilities.”

That goes for the rest of your slow plan as well Leo

polesheep

Colibri wrote: »

I'm so conflicted.

On the one hand, we've known from the start what flattening the curve meant. It was not to find a vaccine or treatment, but to ensure hospital capacity wasn't overloaded while we looked for a treatment that could help.

I knew this, but I somehow lost the message (partly by going on Twitter).

I'm still the "stay at home" type as are many people, but we knew from the very start that the lockdown was to flatten the curve in anticipation of a second wave. We've not had a *first* wave, CMO said himself.

Why the feck am I so afraid though?

Because you have been fed fear.

I used to climb in my younger days. If I told someone who was new to a certain section that it was dangerous and the likelihood of falling was high, they would usually climb it badly or not climb it at all, due to fear. On the other hand, if I told them that it was technical but most people handled it ok, they would be fine. The messages coming from reliable sources are going to be mostly positive from here on, even if they are cautious. It's those that you should be listening to.

Pitch n Putt

Deleted User wrote: »

Report he based his comments on specifically mentioned under 14s I believe. They just don’t seem to have the same viral load

Under 25s as less of a risk I think.

It’s all a case really as a schools still a school.

Don’t think the virus decides if your 11 I won’t infect you but if you 17/18 I will

It’s a shambles to be stating that one of the safest things we could do is to open schools whilst simultaneously his minster of education is giving reasons why the exams were cancelled.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

Because you have been fed fear.

I used to climb in my younger days. If I told someone who was new to a certain section that it was dangerous and the likelihood of falling was high, they would usually climb it badly or not climb it at all, due to fear. On the other hand, if I told them that it was technical but most people handled it ok, they would be fine. The messages coming from reliable sources are going to be mostly positive from here on, even if they are cautious. It's those that you should be listening to.

This.
People are all over social media saying they won’t send their kids back to school until there is a vaccine.

The government, the CMO and the media need to change the message. They need to explain how mild and low risk the illness is.

road_high

SusieBlue wrote: »

Michael Guineys in Cork is reopening on Monday. As far as I know they don’t sell food, hardware or garden equipment so I don’t know how they’re getting around the restrictions.
They do have a homeware section so perhaps they are taking inspiration from Dunnes in that regard.

Either way, the more businesses that take the leap, the more likely others will follow. No way will they remain closed when they can see their competitors open for business and making money.

Fair play to them- let them shut down a rate and wage paying business if they do wish

Colibri

Colibri wrote: »

1 is, the other 3 are my partner and her parents, and I'd spend (normally) a lot of time with them.

My worry is those four people. What is the government's plan for them? Just stay home?

I don't mind going back to work, but that increases my chances of infecting these people.

growleaves

polesheep wrote: »

Because you have been fed fear.

I used to climb in my younger days. If I told someone who was new to a certain section that it was dangerous and the likelihood of falling was high, they would usually climb it badly or not climb it at all, due to fear. On the other hand, if I told them that it was technical but most people handled it ok, they would be fine. The messages coming from reliable sources are going to be mostly positive from here on, even if they are cautious. It's those that you should be listening to.

I don't think it is enough just to be listening to the authorities from whence they change their messaging, which will be quite soon. People have to start recognising that passivity is wrong when in conjunction with not-demanding strict honesty from journalists, officials, politicians etc.

By strict I mean there should be no more tolerance for deniable dishonesty such as exaggerations, selective omissions, unlikely scenarios presented as likely, lying to gain room to maneuver (constantly expected of government and justified to keep one step ahead of public reaction), sloppily compiled statistics presented as fact and later dismissed as "Models aren't supposed to be right anyway". The list goes on and on.

The choice for the individual is whether they are going to collude with this through passivity or actively decide to reject lies.

polesheep

growleaves wrote: »

I don't think it is enough just to be listening to the authorities from whence they change their messaging, which will be quite soon. People have to start recognising that passivity is wrong when in conjunction with not-demanding strict honesty from journalists, officials, politicians etc.

By strict I mean there should be no more tolerance for deniable dishonesty such as exaggerations, selective omissions, unlikely scenarios presented as likely, lying to gain room to maneuver (constantly expected of government and justified to keep one step ahead of public reaction), sloppily compiled statistics presented as fact and later dismissed as "Models aren't supposed to be right anyway". The list goes on and on.

The choice for the individual is whether they are going to collude with this through passivity or actively decide to reject lies.

I agree with you, but the poster is trying to move on from a place of fear.

Tell me how

growleaves wrote: »

I don't think it is enough just to be listening to the authorities from whence they change their messaging, which will be quite soon. People have to start recognising that passivity is wrong when in conjunction with not-demanding strict honesty from journalists, officials, politicians etc.

By strict I mean there should be no more tolerance for deniable dishonesty such as exaggerations, selective omissions, unlikely scenarios presented as likely, lying to gain room to maneuver (constantly expected of government and justified to keep one step ahead of public reaction), sloppily compiled statistics presented as fact and later dismissed as "Models aren't supposed to be right anyway". The list goes on and on.

The choice for the individual is whether they are going to collude with this through passivity or actively decide to reject lies.

This is the worst pandemic in 100 years and virtually every country is experiencing difficulties in understanding and communicating what is a changing situation on a daily basis.

Anyone who wants to is free to run for elected office. This keyboard democracy is closer to science fiction writing than the real world.

Nermal

'UK manufacturers push back against 14-day quarantine plan'

https://www.ft.com/content/47289cd2-825a-49fc-8873-6e4f4f539698

Confirmation, if it were needed, that elimination is not an option. Unless you fancy near-autarky while you wait for a vaccine. You might well end up with a ration-book first.

road_high

This thing is collapsing by the day now. Real palpable sense of that today. Traffic is heading back to normal school holiday levels, tradespeople are nearly all back and/or working away behind the scenes.
Next Monday it’s game over with the next sets of businesses screaming to reopen or working around the nonsense