Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

jibber5000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In Ireland, we don't like to give an age breakdown of the deaths. Its not really clear why we are not doing this.
Tony was pushed on this last week and when he did provide a breakdown, almost 1000 deaths were in the over 80's category.
And most already had very serious underlying issues - terminal cancer, late stages of COPD etc.

Only 389 cases have been admitted to ICU. How is that possible when we have more deaths?

The only explanation is that most of these people are so sick that ICU is a waste of time. For example, they're already on their deathbed.

Somebody above said that over 10% of ICU admissions were younger people. Well, possibly... but that figure would only amount to 30 or 40 people.

Project fear needs to end. There is very little risk of anybody below 65 dying of Covid.

Nail on the head.

By the 30th April only 5% of those who had died here did so in ICU.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

COVID-19 isn't the big behemoth that people initially thought. However, the people underplaying it's actual effect is frustrating. The risk of a person suffering ill effects under the age of 65 isn't a tiny minority. If somebody would like to prove only a tiny minority suffer ill effects under the age of 65. Please do.

Last week they did a breakdown of the deaths. Less than 100 were under 65.
I think we all know that the total number of cases is way more than the reported figure. So an absolutely tiny amount of younger people died.

Its only deaths we care about. You don't stop the entire economy, stop all kinds of hospital treatments and screenings just because some young people end up in hospital.

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

A delay of weeks would not make too big a difference.

But we are now up on 3 months of a lockdown including without screening.

And one woman in Kerry who depends on regular screening was told even after they resume she could be waiting for 6 months for results.

I think you will agree that could potentially make a huge difference for some.

Its just not acceptable to suspend screening for longer than a couple of months.

As for covid 19 being endemic, we've been told covid 19 is almost at an all time low in terms of spread now. So either we now prioritise screening and oncology services or else someone is telling big fat porkies, and covid 19 is still endemic in hospitals.

The one thing covid 19 doesn't care about is government or HSE PR.

At the times that screenings were delayed. They are scheduled to start back up in phase 1. I was talking about why screenings/ chemo initiation were initially stopped

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Last week they did a breakdown of the deaths. Less than 100 were under 65.
I think we all know that the total number of cases is way more than the reported figure. So an absolutely tiny amount of younger people died.

Its only deaths we care about. You don't stop the entire economy, stop all kinds of hospital treatments and screenings just because some young people end up in hospital.

I was responding to a poster who said that only a tiny minority of people under the age of 65 suffered ill effects from COVID-19?

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

Last week they did a breakdown of the deaths. Less than 100 were under 65.
I think we all know that the total number of cases is way more than the reported figure. So an absolutely tiny amount of younger people died.

Its only deaths we care about. You don't stop the entire economy, stop all kinds of hospital treatments and screenings just because some young people end up in hospital.

Death is not the only serious complication you can suffer from COVID. Deaths are not the only important thing, if hospitals covid wards are overwhelmed with sick younger people, more older people will die as consequence of that

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

COVID-19 isn't the big behemoth that people initially thought. However, the people underplaying it's actual effect is frustrating. The risk of a person suffering ill effects under the age of 65 isn't a tiny minority. If somebody would like to prove only a tiny minority suffer ill effects under the age of 65. Please do.

Is there much cross-referencing done in those cases to see if they've underlying medical conditions, including obesity which seems linked.
Be curious as well if it gets reduced over time in hospitalisation - that initially they'd be cautious and bring everyone in but then latterly decide to let people work through it at home.

Hrududu

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

When we get out of this we need real behaviour change.

If someone is sick then they don’t go to the office and they certainly don’t go on public transport. They remote work when they can. If they can’t they take steps not to spread what they have.

I worked abroad and was sneezing at a meeting - I was informed very bluntly that I was a risk to people and should be home working. That is the way it should be.

If someone has symptoms of a virus then they should not be out spreading it. Maybe just maybe these lessons can reduce illness from other viruses into the future. And minimise the risks to society.

Exactly this. Too many times a cold has gone through our office because people aren't sick enough to take a sick day, and management are wary about allowing people to work from home in case they are slacking.

Hopefully at the very least more employers will implement a policy around this.

lord quackinton

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah. Come on. You aren't seriously suggesting someone like Michael O'Leary was in charge of the response to COVID-19 in Ireland? What does any business leader know about epidemiology? How does a business leader scale up ICU's? The people here who are villfying the initial lockdown would be the same people complaining if the HSE had collapsed due to the strain of COVID-19?

Would you want an accountant to place a stent?

yes i am.


if michalel o leary was in charge or someone similar or even little old me then there would be a properly run plan.
i said from the start on here - protect every nursing home in Ireland and encourage good personal hygiene, wearing of masks inside and remote working.


after that no lockdown, no 350 covid payment and no wage subsidy scheme. all employees and self employed to have their income taxes suspended for 3 months inc employers PRSI.

all the above not to be recouped.



then the government open the line of credit and borrow from the markets and use the 21 billion borrowed to build hundreds of thousands of well planned resourced homes with the assistance of the private sector.

there is your stimulus easing economic recovery and your housing crisis solved.


your welcome.

the kelt

Hrududu wrote: »

Exactly this. Too many times a cold has gone through our office because people aren't sick enough to take a sick day, and management are wary about allowing people to work from home in case they are slacking.

Hopefully at the very least more employers will implement a policy around this.

I know of a well known City Centre company that in recent years bought out a rival.

They were so vehemently against working from home that there was about a dozen employees from the company they bought out that were remotely based and worked from home as their place of work that they paid well over a million in redundancies to get rid of them rather than accommodate them.

They had no plans in place back in March for working from home and people were still expected to be in the office until they were forced and their trial of how working from home might work was to put 6 employees in the office on their own in a different part of the building to see how much they could do.

If you knew the company and hoe they operated with working from home and seen the ads they run on TV you would p1ss yourself at the irony.

FintanMcluskey

wakka12 wrote: »

Death is not the only serious complication you can suffer from COVID.

Another serious side effect of Coivd is an alarming lack of personal responsibility.
That personality vaccum Pat Kenny had some guy on the show this morning suggesting personal responsibility is key moving forward ie social distance, cocoon if vunerable keep yourself safe, but the economy needs to reopen pronto and as safely as possible.
Of course Pat accused him of killing the elderly no less.

Mad_maxx

Birdy wrote: »

Tony Holohan has become very arrogant. He's on a right old power trip at the moment and pushing continually to maintain as much control as possible.

Did you see them sneering at the journalist who suggested he was being downbeat?

the media have turned him into some sort of infallable god

the conversation and narrative is far too narrow , we need more than medics involved

is_that_so

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the media have turned him into some sort of infallable god

the conversation and narrative is far too narrow , we need more than medics involved

There are a whole lot of disciplines involved in NEPHT, he's just the face of the crisis. It's really not his fault journalists can't formulate decent questions. He's also knocked that notion of infallibility on the head many times and acknowledges that there are still a lot of unknowns.

Class MayDresser

the kelt wrote: »

If you knew the company and hoe they operated with working from home and seen the ads they run on TV you would p1ss yourself at the irony.

I'm intrigued now!!

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

Death is not the only serious complication you can suffer from COVID. Deaths are not the only important thing, if hospitals covid wards are overwhelmed with sick younger people, more older people will die as consequence of that

We never even came close to capacity though. All the ICU admissions since this started is less than our capacity.

There are only a few hundred in hospital at the moment. Mainly all care home patients that remain in hospital as a precaution so it doesn't end up back in care homes.

So young people are currently neither dying or crowding hospitals.

SNNUS

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Maybe people’s phones should be used as evidence. Fine people or perhaps remove the 5km limit for 4 weeks as punishment? The technology is there to do this.[/QUO

I have seen it all now.. Just shoot them altogether for this shocking crime.

MrDavid1976

SNNUS wrote: »

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Maybe people’s phones should be used as evidence. Fine people or perhaps remove the 5km limit for 4 weeks as punishment? The technology is there to do this.[/QUO

I have seen it all now.. Just shoot them altogether for this shocking crime.

Good thinking.

MrDavid1976

growleaves wrote: »

I would throw my phone in the canal and get a landline if this was brought in. I hope that others would do the same thing.

Just before this grows legs - I was not being serious. I am in favour of a sensible easing of restrictions and the enforcement focus should be on the areas of highest risk.

FintanMcluskey

SNNUS wrote: »

[

I have seen it all now.. Just shoot them altogether for this shocking crime.

Waste of bullets and resources. Built in semtex device in phone, once granny passes 5km, kaboom. Problem solved

growleaves

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Just before this grows legs - I was not being serious. I am in favour of a sensible easing of restrictions and the enforcement focus should be on the areas of highest risk.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

There was a poster here from who called for a techno-totalitarian regime with electronic tagging, no joke.

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

Is there much cross-referencing done in those cases to see if they've underlying medical conditions, including obesity which seems linked.
Be curious as well if it gets reduced over time in hospitalisation - that initially they'd be cautious and bring everyone in but then latterly decide to let people work through it at home.

I don't have the data to hand but anecdotally, you are correct. That has been my observation at least.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

We never even came close to capacity though. All the ICU admissions since this started is less than our capacity.

There are only a few hundred in hospital at the moment. Mainly all care home patients that remain in hospital as a precaution so it doesn't end up back in care homes.

So young people are currently neither dying or crowding hospitals.

Becuase a lockdown has limited spread of infection to probably less than 3% of the population

showpony1

I need to go into the office tomorrow in city center - are gardaí generally around town Stephens Green/Harcourt asking people what they are doing?

is_that_so

showpony1 wrote: »

I need to go into the office tomorrow in city center - are gardaí generally around town Stephens Green/Harcourt asking people what they are doing?

Can't you just say that you've been called in, can't do it from home?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0514/1138385-dail-statements-coronavirus/

Good news for the "pro economic brigade". Well done, comrades.;)

yosemitesam1

wakka12 wrote: »

Becuase a lockdown has limited spread of infection to probably less than 3% of the population

We probably could have coped perfectly well without a lockdown and have cancelled unnecessary procedures as necessary.
The hospitalisation rate is about one tenth of what was presumed.
Lockdown contributed heavily to the staff shortages seen in nursing homes and hospitals.
In Italy the lockdown caused foreign staff to panic and head home. Schools closing meant that many of the remaining healthcare workers had to stay at home to mind children.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0514/1138385-dail-statements-coronavirus/

Good news for the "pro economic brigade". Well done, comrades.;)

Tony will scupper that Im sure.

As he did when Leo spoke yesterday

growleaves

The Taoiseach likened the virus to a fire in retreat and said we must quench its every spark.

Poetic.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0514/1138385-dail-statements-coronavirus/

Good news for the "pro economic brigade". Well done, comrades.;)

Thats not good news lol. We need phase 5 to start at phase 3 and phase 3 to start with phase 1. and we needed phase 1 to start 5th of May.

Do you know economics at all? Damage is already done friend, riding out this shambles of turtle plan can not be "good news", its barely acceptable news.

You 've just proven that you can never form part of pro economic brigade.

"Oh hey, we are on course for our 5 month pub, sports, cinema, gym lockdown to be lifted 10th of August. Yay" :rolleyes:

Colibri

growleaves wrote: »

Poetic.

Which Terminator is that quote from? :pac::D

Cal4567

the kelt wrote: »

I know of a well known City Centre company that in recent years bought out a rival.

They were so vehemently against working from home that there was about a dozen employees from the company they bought out that were remotely based and worked from home as their place of work that they paid well over a million in redundancies to get rid of them rather than accommodate them.

They had no plans in place back in March for working from home and people were still expected to be in the office until they were forced and their trial of how working from home might work was to put 6 employees in the office on their own in a different part of the building to see how much they could do.

If you knew the company and hoe they operated with working from home and seen the ads they run on TV you would p1ss yourself at the irony.

Ok, but that was then. We are now or so it seems, in a bit of a different world. What's their attitude now to WFH, given that the wider corporate world is showing signs of not only accepting WFH, but positively promoting it.