Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Polar101

Deleted User wrote: »

Project fear needs to end. There is very little risk of anybody below 65 dying of Covid.

I'm not sure why we are using brexiteer terminology (good for the thanks count, probably) - but what is it that you want to happen, that's not already happening? The plans have been published by the government, and it's widely accepted that the times are not set in stone. Despite the bizarre amount of posts here stating stuff like "Tony said that in a weird way, that must mean he's planning another lockdown", there's (probably:) ) no grand conspiracy ongoing.

dockysher

Quick question guys, my partner is a nurse on coronavirus warde in hospital.
We needed a valve changed to water pump badly as it making water run really slow. We were waiting a few weeks since we asked landlord and no sign of plumber.
So we rang yesterday and said job was critical so plumber came out to do job and in general conservation he asked where me and my partner worked.
I told him and mentioned she worked in hospital, she is at work today. He then flat out refused to do work and said any healthcare worker needs to isolate for 2 weeks before he comes into there house and was very mad he wasnt informed of where she worked beforehand.
Is this not discrimination against healthcare workers and nurses or had he the right to be informed where we worked before he called out for job?

growleaves

The plans have been published by the government, and it's widely accepted that the times are not set in stone

The plan also says that economic considerations may supervene (not exact wording) to bring the phases forward. That is mentioned offhand somewhere in the 23-page document so it may not have made an impression on everyone.

jonnny68

I'm wondering about next week when certain workers go back to work like construction workers who live down the country and commute to Dublin , unlike office jobs these lads are highly unlikely to have any "letter" from their employer saying they are going to work, so id assume they'll relax on this ridiculous 5km restrictions.

I cant see buses and trains packed, but there is likely to be a noticeable increase in passengers, are the garda really going to ask every single person on buses and trains about their movements,i should hope not.

Mike3287

jonnny68 wrote: »

are the garda really going to ask every single person on buses and trains about their movements,i should hope not.

They better wear masks doing it

Just waiting for the first superspreader Garda here with head in everyone's window

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0514/1138385-dail-statements-coronavirus/

Good news for the "pro economic brigade". Well done, comrades.;)

Pascal's warning of 300,000 long term extra unemployed likely focused his mind.

At this stage we cannot afford to remain in lockdown for a single day longer than nessecary.

And they need to get the testing turnaround and contact tracing up to world class standards. They've had 10 weeks to get it right.

GP referral, swab, analyse, give results and contact tracing need to be done within 24 hours if we want to stay on top of this. Any longer than that, it may already be too late to contain a spread.

Allinall

Mike3287 wrote: »

They better wear masks doing it

Just waiting for the first superspreader Garda here with head in everyone's window

I've been stopped at numerous checkpoints, and not once has a guard put his head in the window, or come even close to it.

showpony1

is_that_so wrote: »

Can't you just say that you've been called in, can't do it from home?

i suppose so - that's sufficient for them just saying i needed to go to office for IT issues? i assumed they aren't at the corner of mainly closed office blocks asking people on foot. I'd have to get bus/DART in which i suppose is concern.

seamusk84

Sure hope they speed up that reopening based on this weeks infection figures and the noise coming out of the Department of Finance.

Phase one does nothing. We need a Phase one with elements of phase 2 on Monday to actually try and save what will be left of our small to medium size enterprises.

Government needs to take some big boy steps here and stop being afraid of our great overlord Holohan.

jonnny68

Mike3287 wrote: »

They better wear masks doing it

Just waiting for the first superspreader Garda here with head in everyone's window

construction workers arent renowned for hygiene ,etc i know that from experience

yeah the garda seriously need to ease up on this nonsense, and the garda of all people need to be wearing masks!!

marno21

SNNUS wrote: »

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Maybe people’s phones should be used as evidence. Fine people or perhaps remove the 5km limit for 4 weeks as punishment? The technology is there to do this.[/QUO

I have seen it all now.. Just shoot them altogether for this shocking crime.

The worrying thing about us returning to normal is there is now a significant proportion of the population who actually believe this.

There is so much misinformation now that large amounts of the public believe that it'll be a challenge in itself to wean people off this fear binging

1. The lockdown is to eradicate the virus and when we reopen it'll be gone
2. Going more than 5km from your house (no context - generalised rule) represents a risk to public health
3. Wearing gloves in public or while shopping will insulate you against the virus

and we could go on

Blaze420

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Tony will scupper that Im sure.

As he did when Leo spoke yesterday

They'd be very foolish to think the public would accept any further delays in starting the roadmap, enough is enough at this point.

is_that_so

showpony1 wrote: »

i suppose so - that's sufficient for them just saying i needed to go to office for IT issues? i assumed they aren't at the corner of mainly closed office blocks asking people on foot. I'd have to get bus/DART in which i suppose is concern.

Keep your distance in transport, go for the mask for peace of mind.

is_that_so

marno21 wrote: »

The worrying thing about us returning to normal is there is now a significant proportion of the population who actually believe this.

There is so much misinformation now that large amounts of the public believe that it'll be a challenge in itself to wean people off this fear binging

1. The lockdown is to eradicate the virus and when we reopen it'll be gone
2. Going more than 5km from your house (no context - generalised rule) represents a risk to public health
3. Wearing gloves in public or while shopping will insulate you against the virus

and we could go on

You could but without the gloves! Hand hygiene rocks!

polesheep

dockysher wrote: »

Quick question guys, my partner is a nurse on coronavirus warde in hospital.
We needed a valve changed to water pump badly as it making water run really slow. We were waiting a few weeks since we asked landlord and no sign of plumber.
So we rang yesterday and said job was critical so plumber came out to do job and in general conservation he asked where me and my partner worked.
I told him and mentioned she worked in hospital, she is at work today. He then flat out refused to do work and said any healthcare worker needs to isolate for 2 weeks before he comes into there house and was very mad he wasnt informed of where she worked beforehand.
Is this not discrimination against healthcare workers and nurses or had he the right to be informed where we worked before he called out for job?

I'm in the same circumstances regarding my wife's work. I would make sure to inform everyone possible on every medium possible about how he behaved and let you down. Name and shame him. Perhaps your partner could ask one of the plumbers in the hospital in which she works to do the job.

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/gouvernementFR/status/1260916393303834625?s=19

French government allocating 18 billion to the tourism and culture industry.

It should be possible subject to restrictions being eased earlier for French people to take a vacation in France in July and August.

In the "green" areas, cafes, restaurants etc scheduled to reopen June 2nd, final decision later this month.

road_high

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Another serious side effect of Coivd is an alarming lack of personal responsibility.
That personality vaccum Pat Kenny had some guy on the show this morning suggesting personal responsibility is key moving forward ie social distance, cocoon if vunerable keep yourself safe, but the economy needs to reopen pronto and as safely as possible.
Of course Pat accused him of killing the elderly no less.

Karl Dieter, I heard on it too. Everything he said was a rock of sense. Pat is usefully very balanced and factual in fairness to him.

There is a bunch of people in this country that are absolutely determind to believe that Covid 19 is some extremely dangerous, doomsday type illness. Despite all the evidence otherwise.

1) We were told in February that 3 million Irish could catch this and 300000 could die. The death rate was potentially 10% or higher.

It just didn't happen. The illness had nowhere near that impact on Ireland. In fact, there are less than 5M cases in the world after a few months of this illness. And if there really was way more cases, its even milder again than we now know.

2) Young people are just as affected.

False. Less than 100 people under 65 in Ireland have died. The risk is extremely low if you are under 65.

3) Lots of young people end up in hospital and ICU. The hospitals will be overwhelmed.

Not really, we've never been close to capacity in the hospitals. In fact, all of our ICU cases added together since the start of this is less than our capacity. The hospitals are emptier than they've ever been right now. And the people in hospital is mainly elderly people that they are keeping as a precaution before returning to nursing homes.

4) Young people are super spreaders

There is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. In fact, it might be the opposite.

5) The second wave is coming

Wrong, the first never even arrived. The CMO even confirmed this.

You'd have to be extremely gullible if you believe that all this is because of lockdown.

At the end of the day, everybody is responsible for their own health. If you want to lockdown until a vaccine is found, that is fine. You are entitled to do so. If you want to keep your kids at home for a few years, thats also fine. Nobody can stop you from doing what you want to do.

As for the country, it looks like we'll be borrowing about 30 billion to pay for the lockdown. Recession is staring us in the face.
Time to face reality. Shorten phase 1 to 2 weeks. Merge phase 2 and 3 and shorten to 2 weeks. Then merge phase 4 and 5.

This lockdown will kill more than it saved.

wakka12

Could you link to where anyone claimed 300,000 could die. As far as I am aware 85,000 was the worst case scemario figure discussed. In addition to that, I've personally never heard anyone claim young people are as affectedby this as older people.

And the reason less than 3% of the population have contracted the virus so far is absolutely and wihtout a doubt because of lockdown, hospitals were not overhwelmed as lockdown slowed the rate of infection down to zero. Whether they would have managed without lockdown is up for debate, but it certainly wasnt looking good in early March, and based on foreign precedent also seemed like the best decision at the time

Dont see how the point about young people being super spreaders is relevant, what does it matter? The virus clearly spreads quickly regardless of who is doing the most spreading.

A second wave(or rather first wave which was abruptly ended) will come, but as you say, it is something we will simply have to deal with, the economic cost is no longer feasible.

stephenjmcd

wakka12 wrote: »

Could you link to where anyone claimed 300,000 could die. As far as I am aware 85,000 was the worst case scemario figure discussed. In addition to that, I've personally never heard anyone claim young people are as affectedby this as older people.

And the reason less than 3% of the population have contracted the virus so far is absolutely and wihtout a doubt because of lockdown, hospitals were not overhwelmed as lockdown slowed the rate of infection down to zero.

I'm not sure about the 300k figure the other poster has mentioned but I do remember the headline that the Sunday business post splashed across the front pages not too long ago and yet we've got nowhere near it, I know due to restrictions etc but at the time this was the scaremongering. 1.9 million could be infected...

https://www.businesspost.ie/health/irish-health-authorities-predict-19m-people-will-fall-ill-with-coronavirus-701e4838

FintanMcluskey

wakka12 wrote: »

And the reason less than 3% of the population have contracted the virus so far is absolutely and wihtout a doubt because of lockdown, hospitals were not overhwelmed as lockdown slowed the rate of infection down to zero. Whether they would have managed without lockdown is up for debate, but it certainly wasnt looking good in early March, and based on foreign precedent also seemed like the best decision at the time

Why are Sweden, a nation with 2m citizens over 65, not reporting this stuff I wonder. Really has me puzzled

wakka12

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Why are Sweden, a nation with 2m citizens over 65, not reporting this stuff I wonder. Really has me puzzled

Because of social distancing and countless other measures in place in order to halt the spread of the virus

wakka12

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'm not sure about the 300k figure the other poster has mentioned but I do remember the headline that the Sunday business post splashed across the front pages not too long ago and yet we've got nowhere near it, I know due to restrictions etc but at the time this was the scaremongering. 1.9 million could be infected...

https://www.businesspost.ie/health/irish-health-authorities-predict-19m-people-will-fall-ill-with-coronavirus-701e4838

Dont see how that is any less likely at this point,1.9 million infections was and still is completely possible. It is likely around 5-8% of Dubliners have been infected, that occurred in a very short space of time

snotboogie

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a bunch of people in this country that are absolutely determind to believe that Covid 19 is some extremely dangerous, doomsday type illness. Despite all the evidence otherwise.

1) We were told in February that 3 million Irish could catch this and 300000 could die. The death rate was potentially 10% or higher.

It just didn't happen. The illness had nowhere near that impact on Ireland. In fact, there are less than 5M cases in the world after a few months of this illness. And if there really was way more cases, its even milder again than we now know.

2) Young people are just as affected.

False. Less than 100 people under 65 in Ireland have died. The risk is extremely low if you are under 65.

3) Lots of young people end up in hospital and ICU. The hospitals will be overwhelmed.

Not really, we've never been close to capacity in the hospitals. In fact, all of our ICU cases added together since the start of this is less than our capacity. The hospitals are emptier than they've ever been right now. And the people in hospital is mainly elderly people that they are keeping as a precaution before returning to nursing homes.

4) Young people are super spreaders

There is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. In fact, it might be the opposite.

5) The second wave is coming

Wrong, the first never even arrived. The CMO even confirmed this.

You'd have to be extremely gullible if you believe that all this is because of lockdown.

At the end of the day, everybody is responsible for their own health. If you want to lockdown until a vaccine is found, that is fine. You are entitled to do so. If you want to keep your kids at home for a few years, thats also fine. Nobody can stop you from doing what you want to do.

As for the country, it looks like we'll be borrowing about 30 billion to pay for the lockdown. Recession is staring us in the face.
Time to face reality. Shorten phase 1 to 2 weeks. Merge phase 2 and 3 and shorten to 2 weeks. Then merge phase 4 and 5.

This lockdown will kill more than it saved.

1. Nobody was saying anything about Coronavirus in February, the whole country was worried about the general election, Wuhan may as well have been on another planet. It wasn't even mention once in one debate. Everything I have heard since February has put the CFR at somewhere between 0.2% and 0.5%, some idiots were taking infections vs deaths out of context but anyone with a modicum of common sense could see that the overall cases were under reported.
2. Who of any consequence ever said that young people were just as affected?
3. The lockdown eased the pressure on the ICU's
4. Nobody knows as you said yourself "might be"
5. The talk of waves is overblown, waves happen when the virus is allowed to run rampant, this is being contained to flatten the curve. However the curve could go on for decades.

Speeding up phases is of little consequence when social distancing is still in place. The biggest restriction we have by far is social distancing, we were never locked down in our houses. There is no plan to lift social distancing. The phases are a sideshow, the only question that matters is when social distancing will end.

skelly22

It strikes me that if the WHO are now stating that Covid19 is here to stay and we need to learn to live with it, what exactly is the point of any lockdown on any level at this point? What's the justification?

FintanMcluskey

wakka12 wrote: »

Because of social distancing and countless other measures in place in order to halt the spread of the virus

So the 2 month lockdown and impending economic genocide was not necessary after all. Mmh

vid36

Protect lives and the economy. Implement the full South Korean approach of digital tracking and tracing. It appears we are not going to do this and as a result when the second waves hits, we will be unprepared again and forced into emergency measures.

wakka12

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So the 2 month lockdown and impending economic genocide was not necessary after all. Mmh

Yes, it seems like those measures would have done the job at least in less urbanised places like Ireland and Sweden. But what does it matter now, the whole world is in a ****ty economic situation, Sweden just as much so

Blaze420

vid36 wrote: »

Protect lives and the economy. Implement the full South Korean approach of digital tracking and tracing. It appears we are not going to do this and as a result when the second waves hits, we will be unprepared again and forced into emergency measures.

There won't be a 2nd wave if the most high risk are cocooned correctly and use a bit of personal responsibility. The rest of us (i.e the majority unlikely to die from this) have done our part and we can't do anymore - life has to return to some sort of normal, with the virus present or without it.

Doctor Jimbob

vid36 wrote: »

Protect lives and the economy. Implement the full South Korean approach of digital tracking and tracing. It appears we are not going to do this and as a result when the second waves hits, we will be unprepared again and forced into emergency measures.

We're not going to see digital tracking to the extend they have in South Korea here and to be honest that's probably for the best.