Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Blaze420

Blaze420 wrote: »

Our government handled this as well they could, I don't even have words to describe the absolute state of the muppet guiding the US on this.

As for those in tourism, I don't want to sound cold but I'd suggest they find something else to work in for now - tourism is dead and won't be back for a long time to come.

Find something else for work with the current unemployment levels? They just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, yeah? :pac:

Never mind the temperature of it, your suggestion is sh1t, and completely out of touch.

vid36

hmmm wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by "digital tracking and tracing".

Do you want everyone to carry some sort of tracking device? This is an interesting approach, how would you go about enforcing this? Will the device have some sort of thermometer built in to detect fevers?

It means using phone data to track your movements if you are infected and also contacting people you have been in close proximity with in the day prior to your diagnosis.
Unlike the proposed App, it is done automatically whether you consent or not.

Colibri

Deleted User wrote: »

Which countries are only asking for facemasks on public transport and social distancing? Not that I don't believe you but just curious.

There's a list here -

https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/

Blaze420

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yeah, I'd like to see my parents some time soon also. According to you though, I shouldn't be allowed into my own country to do so for potentially another 4 years, despite the fact that where I live in the US has way less cases and deaths than Ireland.

Not our problem unfortunately - you live in a country where the "President" wants to reopen states despite no slow down in infection or death rates. We have it under control in Ireland - why should we undo everything we've been through the past 2 months for visitors from a country that treats COVID like a joke?

rusty cole wrote: »

believe tourism is dead.. That's your new board failte slogan eh.

you sound like an index linked civic servant, a trust fund baby or a banker!

Truth hurts - tourism is done for for the forseeable future. Dry your eyes buddy - There is nobody coming to visit this year or summer, things will not be the same once we start re-opening.

Deleted User wrote: »

Find something else for work with the current unemployment levels? They just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, yeah? :pac:

Never mind the temperature of it, your suggestion is sh1t, and completely out of touch.

Not out of touch - realistic. What are all those people planning to do this summer considering nobody can yet travel outside their counties and nobody will be coming in from abroad?

NH2013

Blaze420 wrote: »

As for those in tourism, I don't want to sound cold but I'd suggest they find something else to work in for now - tourism is dead and won't be back for a long time to come.

What; all 150,000-250,000 people employed in tourism should get other jobs?? And what about the other parts of the economy that depend on tourism as a secondary means of income

I mean there's the hotels, cafes, bars and restaurants as well as activities centers, museums, tour guides etc, but what about all the other jobs that support those or are supplemented by them?

What if the restaurants and cafes can't stay open with domestic business alone?
What about the public transport links such as Go Bus down to Galway etc that all need tourists numbers to make routes profitable? Do they now close down?
What about all the tradesmen etc that fix and work on cafes and hotels etc?
The food suppliers that cater to cafes and restaurants? They all go as well right and get new jobs?
What about the airlines and ferry companies?

What about all the flights that are supported by tourists that allow other businesses to have direct connections to their customers and suppliers?
If you took away the tourists on flights to Madrid or Rome we probably wouldn't have enough demand to run those flights, so how does my business now compete and win business from those cities?
And now in turn another business goes bust because even though it has no connection to tourism it depends on links to other countries, and even more are unemployed.

You may think tourism is just people who work in or own hotels and people on tour buses around Dublin city but the fact is all that activity plays a massive part in our economy and is a big enabler or other businesses. Cut it out and we're f%cked.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dazzle me with your questions.

But I will give you another chance to join pro economic brigade. Just joking, you are banned.

Austria, Germany, Czech republic (although they will remove the need for masks soon enough) and the list goes on.

Schools are still closed in Czech Republic. Aren't they? Don't need to be in a pro economic brigade when you are in a union (or at least could be in a union).

robbiezero

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yeah, I'd like to see my parents some time soon also. According to you though, I shouldn't be allowed into my own country to do so for potentially another 4 years, despite the fact that where I live in the US has way less cases and deaths than Ireland.

I and a good few people I know have done that even though parents are outside the 50km zone. No reason whatsoever that this can't be done safely with distancing and some preparation.
Fair play to anyone waiting another 9 weeks to do this, but I think it is completely unnecessary and absolutely stupid that the restrictions on this aren't being lifted sooner with proper guidelines.

Ginger n Lemon

Look at those busy NHS nurses protesting for a pay rise.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/13/treasury-tax-hikes-pay-freezes-covid-19-costs-budget-deficit-spending

I've seen it all now. And you think UK are gonna stay at home to save the NHS any longer? Stay at home save lives? ohhh give us a break.

PS reality hits UK also

"Raising taxes or imposing a public sector wage freeze are among the options on the table to pay for a government borrowing boom during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a leaked Treasury document."

Blaze420

NH2013 wrote: »

What; all 150,000-250,000 people employed in tourism should get other jobs?? And what about the other parts of the economy that depend on tourism as a secondary means of income

I mean there's the hotels, cafes, bars and restaurants as well as activities centers, museums, tour guides etc, but what about all the other jobs that support those or are supplemented by them?

What if the restaurants and cafes can't stay open with domestic business alone?
What about the public transport links such as Go Bus down to Galway etc that all need tourists numbers to make routes profitable? Do they now close down?
What about all the tradesmen etc that fix and work on cafes and hotels etc?
The food suppliers that cater to cafes and restaurants? They all go as well right and get new jobs?
What about the airlines and ferry companies?

What about all the flights that are supported by tourists that allow other businesses to have direct connections to their customers and suppliers?
If you took away the tourists on flights to Madrid or Rome we probably wouldn't have enough demand to run those flights, so how does my business now compete and win business from those cities?
And now in turn another business goes bust because even though it has no connection to tourism it depends on links to other countries, and even more are unemployed.

You may think tourism is just people who work in or own hotels and people on tour buses around Dublin city but the fact is all that activity plays a massive part in our economy and is a big enabler or other businesses. Cut it out and we're f%cked.

Cut the emotion out and look at it realistically - there won't be any tourists or tourism for the remainder of this year. It's done for and no amount of if's r buts will change that fact. Businesses need to be prepared to sink like many others already because these aren't normal times. Air/Ferry traffic will not resume as normal so why pin your hopes on it? There should be mandatory 2 week quarantines for anyone coming in from abroad for the forseeable future - how do you plan to get around that?

What I said might be unsavoury but its the cold hard truth and if I was working in a tourism related job right now I'd be looking for something else ASAP.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Schools are still closed in Czech Republic. Aren't they? Don't need to be in a pro economic brigade when you are in a union (or at least could be in a union).

What have Czech republic schools got to do with anything? are you doubting that Czechs are nearly out of their lockdown?

I hope you arent. But if you are, its another reason why we wont allow you to join pro economic brigade. You arent willing to accept facts.

Blaze420

robbiezero wrote: »

I and a good few people I know have done that even though parents are outside the 50km zone. No reason whatsoever that this can't be done safely with distancing and some preparation.
Fair play to anyone waiting another 9 weeks to do this, but I think it is completely unnecessary and absolutely stupid that the restrictions on this aren't being lifted sooner with proper guidelines.

Absolutely - the last time I saw them was March 1st There is absolutely no reason to keep this restriction in place - it could be managed as easily as if both households have been symptom free for 3 weeks then visits are allowed. I will be breaking it soon enough myself if the government don't do something about it.

hmmm

vid36 wrote: »

It means using phone data to track your movements if you are infected and also contacting people you have been in close proximity with in the day prior to your diagnosis.
Unlike the proposed App, it is done automatically whether you consent or not.

You're going to need everyone to install an app, or you are going to track everyone in the country somehow using triangulation from network towers. Can you see people agreeing to this?

ceadaoin.

Blaze420 wrote: »

Not our problem unfortunately - you live in a country where the "President" wants to reopen states despite no slow down in infection or death rates. We have it under control in Ireland - why should we undo everything we've been through the past 2 months for visitors from a country that treats COVID like a joke?

You've no idea what you're talking about. Its not up to the president whether states open up or not. Many, like my own, are opening in phases because they are in a good position to do so. So yes, many places in the US are seeing falling infections and deaths. Its a massive country ffs and the circumstances re covid reflect that.

But I'm sick saying it so continue with your nonsense ideas about shutting down the tourist industry and closing off Ireland to US tourists and the hundreds of thousands of Irish who live there. That will work out well for Ireland. Go for it!

hmmm

robbiezero wrote: »

but I think it is completely unnecessary and absolutely stupid that the restrictions on this aren't being lifted sooner with proper guidelines.

I'm not sure what you are expecting. There have been guidelines. Social distancing will have to continue. You've been asked to remain within a particular area if possible so that if spread occurs, our contact tracers have less work to do.

You might not personally like the guidelines, but that's a different thing.

Blaze420

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You've no idea what you're talking about. Its not up to the president whether states open up or not. Many, like my own, are opening in phases because they are in a good position to do so. So yes, many places in the US are seeing falling infections and deaths. Its a massive country ffs and the circumstances re covid reflect that.

But I'm sick saying it so continue with your nonsense ideas about shutting down the tourist industry and closing off Ireland to US tourists and the hundreds of thousands of Irish who live there. That will work out well for Ireland. Go for it!

If you live in the US that was your decision to move and live there, nobody else. Ireland needs to protect Ireland first and if that means restricting or completely denying entry to visitors from COVID hotspots then so be it.

iamwhoiam

Colibri wrote: »

The outdoor gathering of up to 4 in a different household with distance is introduced, but to be fair people have been doing this since the 17th of March:pac:

Some have , I for one am really looking forward to having family over in my garden for a chat and a lunch . It will be fantastic to do that .

Ginger n Lemon

HSE CEO "there hasnt been anything proven about anti bodies testing"

God. Get this brother of Tony H out. Modern world is already rolling out mass population antibodies testing while we sit here and pray for phase 1 to go ahead...

https://www.thelocal.de/20200425/germany-ramps-up-antibody-tests-to-determine-coronavirus-immunity

On Newstalk now. Lol he is making a fool of himself "We are not out of covid yet, we will not go back to non covid related screening or treatments anytime soon in a normal way"

Ivan Yates is giving him a reality check.

Assetbacked

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

HSE CEO "there hasnt been anything proven about anti bodies testing"

God. Get this brother of Tony H out. Modern world is already rolling out mass population antibodies testing while we sit here and pray for phase 1 to go ahead...

https://www.thelocal.de/20200425/germany-ramps-up-antibody-tests-to-determine-coronavirus-immunity

Did I read that wrong or does your link not describe the antibody testing as being unreliable at this stage notwithstanding it has been rolled out in countries?

Ginger n Lemon

Assetbacked wrote: »

Did I read that wrong or does your link not describe the antibody testing as being unreliable at this stage notwithstanding it has been rolled out in countries?

Is this link better?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52656808

hmmm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Did I read that wrong or does your link not describe the antibody testing as being unreliable at this stage notwithstanding it has been rolled out in countries?

They're notoriously unreliable. I agree with the HSE not investing in these until they are proven to be better, we don't need to be wasting money on tests. The UK only signed off on one yesterday, it's too soon for Ireland to be spending tens of millions on a test.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-dr-scott-gottlieb-says-he-would-take-three-antibody-tests-to-ensure-accuracy.html

boring accountant

vid36 wrote: »

It means using phone data to track your movements if you are infected and also contacting people you have been in close proximity with in the day prior to your diagnosis.
Unlike the proposed App, it is done automatically whether you consent or not.

So basically giving up all of the privacy rights we’ve gone to so much effort to preserve.

All the costs of implementing GDPR across every business and government agency in the EU is going to be rendered pointless just to give a few thousand pensioners a few extra months?

Not to mention permanently surrendering our civil liberties for a crisis that can only by it’s very nature be temporary?

The hysteria is strong in this one.

Ginger n Lemon

hmmm wrote: »

They're notoriously unreliable. I agree with the HSE not investing in these until they are proven to be better, we don't need to be wasting money on tests.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-dr-scott-gottlieb-says-he-would-take-three-antibody-tests-to-ensure-accuracy.html

Ah come on now, Roche antibody tests give 99.8% accuracy.

Surely thats reliable?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-13/u-k-boosted-in-virus-fight-by-clearance-of-roche-antibody-test

Being taken up by Germany, US and UK now.

This is the way forward

"Roche’s antibody test won emergency use in the U.S. earlier this month and clearance for countries accepting Europe’s CE marking. On May 4, the U.K. government said it was in talks with the company about a mass roll-out of its tests. The Swiss pharmaceutical giant expects production to reach the high double-digit millions by June and pass the 100 million monthly threshold later this year."

mr zulu

As a motorcycle rider I find it strange that I have to wait another 9 weeks to go for a spin and yet over in England they can go where they like since last Wednesday.

boring accountant

Blaze420 wrote: »

If you live in the US that was your decision to move and live there, nobody else. Ireland needs to protect Ireland first and if that means restricting or completely denying entry to visitors from COVID hotspots then so be it.

Restricting travel from the US is wildly disproportionate. The costs of undoing the damage to our reputation would be immeasurable. It would take years if not decades to undo the damage it would do to our brand. Not just for US tourism, but also for multinationals.

You know the one thing that might save our economy is that about 25% of our exports is medical manufacturing. Many of these companies are American and require us to have travel between our two countries. That’s not to mention the contribution of the tech companies to our CT receipts.

skelly22

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Look at those busy NHS nurses protesting for a pay rise.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/13/treasury-tax-hikes-pay-freezes-covid-19-costs-budget-deficit-spending

I've seen it all now. And you think UK are gonna stay at home to save the NHS any longer? Stay at home save lives? ohhh give us a break.

PS reality hits UK also

"Raising taxes or imposing a public sector wage freeze are among the options on the table to pay for a government borrowing boom during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a leaked Treasury document."

In fairness, Boris did change the slogan from "Stay at Home!" to "Get Back to Work!" pretty much overnight.

PowerToWait

mr zulu wrote: »

As a motorcycle rider I find it strange that I have to wait another 9 weeks to go for a spin and yet over in England they can go where they like since last Wednesday.

Heard of the War of Independence?

Breezin

mr zulu wrote: »

As a motorcycle rider I find it strange that I have to wait another 9 weeks to go for a spin and yet over in England they can go where they like since last Wednesday.

Ditto.

Covered head to toe, with a visor, a sun shield or shades, bandana, snood and gloves. Clearly a public health risk in spite of being probably the most self-isolating activity imaginable. And all the while people are on buses and trains. :rolleyes:

retro:electro

mr zulu wrote: »

As a motorcycle rider I find it strange that I have to wait another 9 weeks to go for a spin and yet over in England they can go where they like since last Wednesday.

The 5k thing is ridiculous and makes no sense. I know in theory it’s to stop congregating at beaches and parks but you should be allowed to exercise anywhere you want provided you don’t loiter about the place and can maintain social distancing. In your case you’d be doing absolutely no one any harm by taking your bike out and exceeding the distance.

boring accountant

Assetbacked wrote: »

Did I read that wrong or does your link not describe the antibody testing as being unreliable at this stage notwithstanding it has been rolled out in countries?

Do you know what else is unreliable? Covid testing!

The tests we use only have 70% sensitivity.

We get false negatives all the time. Even people with severe symptoms who have been in close contact with confirmed cases have received negative results.

Breezin

Not to worry about tourism. Sure can't they repurpose the marketing to bring the filthy Dubs down the country again and make them feel welcome. :P