Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

pjohnson

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Welfare and Revenue within a few weeks mobilised the resources to ensure that so many people received their Covid 19 payment. Hospital staff have made an incredible personal sacrifice in terms of managing the health crisis. Perhaps best not to taint the whole public sector because of an administrative effort. Plus burn the public sector now in terms of pay and everyone will be affected. The last thing business needs now is austerity.

Quacky plays by his own rules. Suprised you aren't agreeing with him with some of your previous posts here! Nice to see you are getting sensible.

MrDavid1976

pjohnson wrote: »

Quacky plays by his own rules. Suprised you aren't agreeing with him with some of your previous posts here! Nice to see you are getting sensible.

My views are as follows:

- the lockdown was necessary.
- mistakes have been made.
- I have serious concerns around governance and accountability (and more stuff will come out in the wash on this).
- We need to accelerate the return to a new normal but at the same time we need to protect the most vulnerable and focus on risky sectors.
- we need a stimulus package to help the country recover.
- we need to grasp the opportunity to fundamentally change society so as to decarbonise society.

Penfailed

NegativeCreep wrote: »

If that’s the case then lockdown is pointless too as it is unsustainable. Anyone we’ve protected from getting the virus now will just get it down the line.

That was the very point of lockdown. If everyone got it at once, medical services would be overrun. Flatten the curve and all that.

CruelSummer

Goldengirl wrote: »

Has been said before and discredited..herd immunity does not figure in this country. Only mentioned by the odd person who has no clue , like Boris .
This virus may not confer immunity , or if so , only for a limited time frame. They are talking about a number of people maybe having immunity for 2 to 3 months, others, less , or not at all.

Aim is to get disease rate of transmission down , which it is, and try to keep it down while allowing some easing.
Schools and unis stage distancing? Half inmornings, half in evenings or every second day .

Heard doc on Tonight show last night , saying might be years before treatment found and may never find a vaccine, as in Malaria.
If that is so it'll be a cycle of easing and back to lockdown whenever the virus surges.
Very depressing.

There is no evidence of just temporary immunity, they are currently doing studies using animals (eg monkeys), they are showing full immunity.
SARS 1 immunity is 2-3 years approx, MERS is 5+ (if you survive the MERS infection). Most doctors think Covid will be similar to at least sars 1 as it’s genetic make up is quite similar.

robbiezero

pjohnson wrote: »

Quacky plays by his own rules. Suprised you aren't agreeing with him with some of your previous posts here! Nice to see you are getting sensible.

Give an example of some of the previous posts that you consider "not to be sensible"
or is this more of your Anyone who wants restrictions lifted:

• Hates their kids,
• wants to go to the pub
• Wants to kill their elderly parents for their inheritance.

etc etc....

You have some neck talking about people getting sensible with the Walter Mitty nonsense you spout.

Colibri

Study Finds Nearly Everyone Who Recovers From COVID-19 Makes Coronavirus Antibodies – NIH Director's Blog - https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/05/07/study-finds-nearly-everyone-who-recovers-from-covid-19-makes-coronavirus-antibodies/

In their study of blood drawn from 285 people hospitalized with severe COVID-19, researchers in China, led by Ai-Long Huang, Chongqing Medical University, found that all had developed SARS-CoV-2 specific antibodies within two to three weeks of their first symptoms. Although more follow-up work is needed to determine just how protective these antibodies are and for how long, these findings suggest that the immune systems of people who survive COVID-19 have been be primed to recognize SARS-CoV-2 and possibly thwart a second infection.

This applied to more severe cases but shows promise.

This next article was published last night:

T cells found in COVID-19 patients ‘bode well’ for long-term immunity | Science | AAAS - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

“This is encouraging data,” says virologist Angela Rasmussen of Columbia University. Although the studies don’t clarify whether people who clear a SARS-CoV-2 infection can ward off the virus in the future, both identified strong T cell responses to it, which “bodes well for the development of long-term protective immunity,” Rasmussen says. The findings could also help researchers create better vaccines.

This also mentions *some* cross immunity from previous coronaviruses. Interesting.

Just to note, emergency or necessary surgery is still going ahead.

The reason that doctors are been rota'd in less in hospital is to prevent all medical staff in one area going out at once.

The reason transplant surgery isn't taking place is that the patients would need to be immunocompromised.

All chemotherapy hasn't been cancelled.

Why can't the majority of people in this thread deal in facts rather than biased opinion?

It's frustrating (and embarassing for some of ye). A lot of ye are acting like MAGA fans. No reasonable debate. Just injustice and fury against the tyrannical Tony Holohan.:rolleyes:

MrDavid1976

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

My views are as follows:

- the lockdown was necessary.
- mistakes have been made.
- I have serious concerns around governance and accountability (and more stuff will come out in the wash on this).
- We need to accelerate the return to a new normal but at the same time we need to protect the most vulnerable and focus on risky sectors.
- we need a stimulus package to help the country recover.
- we need to grasp the opportunity to fundamentally change society so as to decarbonise society.

This is actually a really sensible post. I agree with this 100%.

Jackman25

jibber5000 wrote: »

Yesterday you were boasting about how great Covid has been economically for you getting paid 70 euro an hour with unlimited overtime.

Today, it's concern re limited facemasks.

Priorities etc.

Looks like we are getting attack dog today after Martyrdom yesterday and Making out like a bandit the day before.

KerryConnor

Regarding post above asking what strategy is, I think they should be making this clearer . I think it's seems we're following a policy of supression (rather than herd immunity if you like). This should allow people return to life close to normal if done right and taking account of improvements in testing, behaviours etc in coming months. Bit like asian countries, austratlia/NZ. I'm hoping schools go back as normal in September once the numbers are low enough (and hopefully confirmation of some good news re kids not transmitting as much)
Also re posts on it being a mild disease and those in 20s/30s/40s have little to fear from virus, i think it's clear from uk that a small percentage of this group get very ill with virus but it is a v small number that die so you could say they've relatively little to fear. however as someone who falls into this group, 3 of the people i love fall into high risk(Remember Boris wasnt even high risk and he nearly died). it's enough to make me v grateful for cautious approach in this country. For people who dont' have any loved ones in high risk group i can understand the frustration and want to get going and go for 'herd immunity' (if you can even call it that considering how little we know about the disease). But we can't let 20% of our population live alongside a deadly disease running rampant for indefinite future.

uli84

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid19-hospital-5099359-May2020/

We now have teachers raging that school will return in September, in the UK The government is threatening to go nuclear on them and the Irish government must watch and learn

Yeah, drama starts, they should be happy they don’t have to go back on Monday the 18th

nthclare

nthclare wrote: »

That would be very depressing that's for sure, it'll be like the weather and our way of life would change.
It would be like living in a different dimension, people will become self-sufficient and rely less on technology and go back to nature.


I'd prefer people to get back to their lives before this took off, because I enjoy solitude and meeting people too.

I'm a hiker and nature lover myself and would sooner be out in the hills than anywhere else. However if lockdowns keep happening it will stop people doing these things (as we can see already) so less nature in the long term if this goes on.

Also it has already been proven we have never relied or needed technology MORE than we do now. Kids are being taught online, people are working online, Amazon and An Post cannot keep up with online shopping orders, we are all browsing online news sites on a daily basis, we are all on Boards more more too!
On top of that tech an pharma companies are working flat out to get a vaccine and treatment for Covid19, not to mention hospitals, healthcare facilities and any customer facing busiess ordering PPE from Asia among other things. They are massive users of technolgy!

We will not be relying LESS on technology.

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

SusieBlue wrote: »

All elective surgeries and procedures have been cancelled. Screenings and testing for various cancers are suspended and all organ transplants have also been cancelled.
A&E is like a ghost town, to the point that there is widespread concern that patients experiencing chest pain, heart attacks, strokes etc simply aren’t presenting to hospital for fear of either burdening the system or catching covid-19.

According to an email sent out to all staff in CUH posted earlier in the thread, there is currently a grand total of 4 inpatients with covid-19 in that hospital. Of those 4 patients, one is in ICU.
Cork has the 3rd highest amount of cases & community transmission and yet there are only 4 cases of coronavirus receiving medical care.
I know two people working in that hospital, one is medical staff and one is a porter and they both have confirmed that this is among the quietest they’ve ever seen the hospital.

If there are currently only 4 inpatients in Cork, Ireland’s second city, then there is surely at least a few counties with zero daily cases reported and zero hospitalisations.

They, along with the private hospitals, are all lying empty waiting for a surge that isn’t coming because we’re all locked in our homes. Meanwhile the healthcare system is all but paralysed and not working to it’s maximum potential.
It’s a massive waste of resources.

That said I do know another person working as a clerical officer and she is flat out and working overtime, rearranging appointments etc.
I would believe that the admin departments are currently up the walls but with the amount of cancelled services & with what we know is happening in CUH, I find it hard to believe that any of our hospitals are running at their full capacity at the moment.[/quote




Well bless you,for your information from Cork, where I know many nursing staff, none of whom would agree with that description of their current situation!
As I said the different working conditions have increased the work load and a lot of staff redeployed to ICU, highdependency units ,and smaller hospitals treating nonCovid.
Numbers are not as high,thanks to the same restrictions,you complain about.
Surprising that , given you say you have received such good care previously with frequent screening that you seem to be complaining that the hospitals are not overflowing .
I am pleased that conditions in Cork are so good. Maybe you will be able to get that test soon then .

Dublin is not so well thank you.
I will not give you specifics but noone here is twiddling their thumbs.
Everything slower in Aand E , and some outpatients because it has to be regulated and distanced and any mistake or lack of mindfulness could mean infecting a patient or themselves.
All non Covid patients who are categorised urgent are having treatment and surgery either in segregated areas of the hospitals, or more immunocompromised patients are moved to smaller hospitals or private .
I , and another family member have been treated for non Covid related , but urgent conditions during this crisis, in 2 different Dublin hospitals.

Screening or routine screening as such ,is paused , but is present for any patient if they are concerned ,but yes, it needs to be started again, all agree there.
So you think admin staff are working harder than clinical staff, hmmm,interesting .
I wonder who told you that?

There has been a 70% reduction in PCI procedures (Stent) worldwide, including Ireland. If someone has a blockage and needs a stent that would be classed as urgent. Essentially only those presenting with chest pain / heart attack to hospital are getting procedures.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to note, emergency or necessary surgery is still going ahead.

The reason that doctors are been rota'd in less in hospital is to prevent all medical staff in one area going out at once.

The reason transplant surgery isn't taking place is that the patients would need to be immunocompromised.

All chemotherapy hasn't been cancelled.

Why can't the majority of people in this thread deal in facts rather than biased opinion?

It's frustrating (and embarassing for some of ye). A lot of ye are acting like MAGA fans. No reasonable debate. Just injustice and fury against the tyrannical Tony Holohan.:rolleyes:

There is nothing to do but fume most days and there are plenty out there happy to feed that with their own version of reality.

Seamai

awec wrote: »

I'd say Ikea will be packed to the tits on Monday with people trying to get in and get desks and chairs.

I'd be giving it a wide berth for a few days until the queues ease off, unless I was someone who got a hard on for standing in line for hours

SusieBlue

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just to note, emergency or necessary surgery is still going ahead.

The reason that doctors are been rota'd in less in hospital is to prevent all medical staff in one area going out at once.

The reason transplant surgery isn't taking place is that the patients would need to be immunocompromised.

All chemotherapy hasn't been cancelled.

Why can't the majority of people in this thread deal in facts rather than biased opinion?

It's frustrating (and embarassing for some of ye). A lot of ye are acting like MAGA fans. No reasonable debate. Just injustice and fury against the tyrannical Tony Holohan.:rolleyes:

If this is directed at me I never said that chemotherapy was cancelled, I said testing and screenings for various different cancers was cancelled.
Which it is and has been for the last 2 months.

I understand why transplants aren’t going ahead but I would have thought it was reasonable to assume some sort of plan could have been put in place over the last 2 months to find a solution to performing transplants going forward.
This isn’t forthcoming. Covid-19 isn’t going anywhere but neither is the need for this surgery.

Many people, not just here, are reporting difficulties scheduling appointments & surgeries because they are deemed not to be urgent enough.
You can keep insisting that it’s going ahead as normal but that isn’t reflective of what’s being posted here and elsewhere online.
This can’t be ignored and really isn’t acceptable going forward.

If you are going to accuse people of not sticking to the facts you should hold yourself to the same standard and stick to them too.

I’m going to ignore the Trump remark because it was beyond idiotic and a cheap shot.

KerryConnor

KerryConnor wrote: »

Remember Boris wasnt even high risk and he nearly died. it's enough to make me v grateful for cautious approach in this country. For people who dont' have any loved ones in high risk group i can understand the frustration and want to get going and go for 'herd immunity' (if you can even call it that considering how little we know about the disease). But we can't let 20% of our population live alongside a deadly disease running rampant for indefinite future.

this is where you are wrong. Boris Johnson was high risk as he is a 55 year old very overweight and unfit male . His heart and respiratory system would have been under much more pressure than a slim fit person. Obesity is a huge determining factor in how your body deals with Covid, it is a risk factor.
Slim people like Ryan Tubridy and Claire Byrne (i'm deliberately picking well know people for comparison) seem to get well much quicker and with fewer severe symptoms.

iamwhoiam

Seamai wrote: »

I'd be giving it a wide berth for a few days until the queues ease off, unless I was someone who got a hard on for standing in line for hours

Same with garden centres . We will wait a few days and see how it goes .

lord quackinton

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid19-hospital-5099359-May2020/

Unbelievable stuff
The numbers cannot be trusted because of the ineptitude of the public sector
All Public sector was inept before this ‘crisis’ came along and will be inept long after its over

I'm laughing at this. I am a temporary clerical officer in the Civil service and I earn €385 a week , yes €35 more than the Covid payments that I am processing every day for everyone who is safely at home.

If we were all fired and the Public Sector burnt (!) who would process these Covid payments that the country is living on, illness payments, pensions, payments for disabled children and their carers, grants that everyone from Bus companies, to schools to the tourist sector are screaming for now, who would collect taxes that pay for most government funding?

ChelseaRentBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

this is where you are wrong. Boris Johnson was high risk as he is very overweight and unfit. His heart and respiratory system would have been under much more pressure than a slim fit person. Obesity is a huge determining factor in how your body deals with Covid, it is a risk factor.
Slim people like Ryan Tubridy and Claire Byrne (i'm deliberately picking well know people for comparison) seem to get well much quicker and with fewer severe symptoms.

Claire Byrne is slim now?

Doctor Jimbob

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm laughing at this. I am a temporary clerical officer in the Civil service and I earn €385 a week , yes €35 more than the Covid payments that I am processing every day for everyone who is safely at home.

If we were all fired and the Public Sector burnt (!) who would process these Covid payments that the country is living on, illness payments, pensions, payments for disabled children and their carers, grants that everyone from Bus companies, to schools to the tourist sector are screaming for now, who would collect taxes that pay for most government funding?

Pay no heed to the public service bashers. If it was as handy as they make out they'd all be working there.

pjohnson

robbiezero wrote: »

Give an example of some of the previous posts that you consider "not to be sensible"
or is this more of your Anyone who wants restrictions lifted:

• Hates their kids,
• wants to go to the pub
• Wants to kill their elderly parents for their inheritance.

etc etc....

You have some neck talking about people getting sensible with the Walter Mitty nonsense you spout.

Christ ye cant even take a compliment :pac:

daydorunrun

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Claire Byrne is slim now?

Aren’t you the class act!

ChelseaRentBoy

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Claire Byrne is slim now?

as a working mum of 3 kids under the age of 5 and a daily gym goer she is in amazing shape. She has curves but she is no Boris Johnson or Mary Lou McDonnell (who also got very sick with Covid)

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm laughing at this. I am a temporary clerical officer in the Civil service and I earn €385 a week , yes €35 more than the Covid payments that I am processing every day for everyone who is safely at home.

If we were all fired and the Public Sector burnt (!) who would process these Covid payments that the country is living on, illness payments, pensions, payments for disabled children and their carers, grants that everyone from Bus companies, to schools to the tourist sector are screaming for now, who would collect taxes that pay for most government funding?

Well, I am happy to thank you for your service and also those in the background in the HSE doing stalwart work.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reason transplant surgery isn't taking place is that the patients would need to be immunocompromised.

Yet they are able to wipe out one third of the waiting list for kidney transplants in NI throughout this pandemic - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-52552183

MrDavid1976

pjohnson wrote: »

Christ ye cant even take a compliment :pac:

I think it was me who you complimented. I replied above clarifying my more nuanced perspective in all this.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Yet they are able to wipe out one third of the waiting list for kidney transplants in NI throughout this pandemic - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-52552183

That involved taking over an an orthopaedic hospital that is only been used for transplant surgery. The HSE obviously isn't as well organised as the NHS. But it currently isn't feasible to complete transplant surgeries in hospital such as the mater/Vincents due to risk of picking up COVID-19. NHS system is more centralised and more efficient. I used to work in renal back in the NHS.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IT reckons we're good to ease things on Monday, but..



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-private-hospitals-threaten-to-pull-out-of-state-deal-if-hse-does-not-increase-patients-1.4253879

.. I can see 2 things in that which won't happen anyway. I know someone who's been asked to return to work on Monday in a small business (like under 5 employees). No arrangements for social distancing, cleaning etc have been made, and they haven't been asked to complete any forms certifying their return to work.

Small places like this with that sort of attitude will be widespread.

you dont complete a return to work form unless you have been off work sick. In this case you bring a "return to work" cert from your doctor and complete "return to work" form (its usually an online form) when you are back in the office, or with your manager, not at home.

and how do you know there is no cleaning being done in advance if your friend has not been in the office for 8 weeks??? Its also hard to practice social distancing if you're not at work! Wait until Monday at work to see if there is something to complain about.
My job didn't email us with all their new measures but when we went back into the office (5 days after the Covid outbreak in March) we had hand sanitizers, desks far apart, deep cleaning every day and the option to wear gloves and masks. The rest is up to the employees. People themselves need to take on the responsibility of social distancing!

Ginger n Lemon

Stark wrote: »

I bought some surgical masks that were on sale in the supermarket in anticipation of an announcement on face coverings next week. Was I supposed to leave them for the HSE?

This is the funniest thing I read on boards.

Anyways, you all need to donate your masks to HSE. You need to clap for HSE staff. While they concentrate their efforts on 1 individual in Cork who is on a ventilator.

They are flat out, so much so that they post here and keep us updated on how busy they "are".

PS I am fairly certain Ireland won't be able to afford 1bn a year for single use PPE, so yes you gotta re use your PPE. That is called life we live in.