Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

daithi7

Fann Linn wrote: »

The same Stephen Donnelly, shadow health minister, who was quite happy to support FG and their health policies for the last 5 years or so?
Talk is cheap.

Yes, the very same and so flippin what!?

You may not have noticed but for those past 5 years, we haven't had a pandemic response that entailed clumsily& grossly inefficiently disabling the whole private healthcare system at great expense for no apparent benefit at all.... and that a stupid initiative like this has now enabled the numpties in the HSE to write to private consultants who are working pro bono to inform them they won't process their patients test & scan results!? I mean come on!?!

I'm no defender of Stephen Donnelly, but jeez he has got a couple of worthwhile initiatives here. They need to be acted on asap also!!

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

But the amount surely will be cut a little. Down to €200 perhaps, or €250. I think that it is a massive contributor to a public lethargy and lack of enthusiasm for moving out of this lockdown,

It might step down, but the reality is that the workers this was mainly set up to support - bar, restaurant & hotel workers - may not have the opportunity to return to any meaningful level of work until 10th August. This is why I think the end of August seems like a reasonable cut-off date for the payment. If you're not back in work at that point, then it's because the work isn't available, it's not a short-term emergency. They might step it down to 300 at the start of July. And that's more to remind people that this is a temporary payment and they should take work if it becomes available otherwise they're in for a shock.

Stark

Also people on the 203 a week are entitled to that money tax free along with various supports, HAP etc. on top of that. 350 a week is an all-inclusive taxable payment. Works out at much the same as if you were to include the extra supports but easier to administer.

Colibri

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

ZX7R

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But the amount surely will be cut a little. Down to €200 perhaps, or €250. I think that it is a massive contributor to a public lethargy and lack of enthusiasm for moving out of this lockdown,

If it is extended it will definitely be reduced , people receiving it are currently being transferred to wage subsidize from employer's as it helps business to keep running.
Even during the week a meeting of party finance ministers noted that they need a change to the wage subsidy on paper as it appears on wage slips as it is being used against people who are trying to access finance.
Although it won't go against your credit history it is blocking people from gaining access to finance ,a loophole being used by our banks.
It has to change and be reduced to a regular payment

Wibbs

Colibri wrote: »

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

Well they had proper border controls, mandatory masks in public places and decent contact tracing. Same for the Czechs and the East Asian nations with far better numbers than us. We have neither of the first two and not exactly brilliant in the last one. Big differences there. I mean we still have major resistance to masks in indoor public areas and that ship has pretty much sailed. We're a good way behind nations like the above.

Colibri

Wibbs wrote: »

Well they had proper border controls, mandatory masks in public places and decent contact tracing. Same for the Czechs and the East Asian nations with far better numbers than us. We have neither of the first two and not exactly brilliant in the last one. Big differences there. I mean we still have major resistance to masks in indoor public areas and that ship has pretty much sailed. We're a good way behind nations like the above.

Oh for sure I know they're ahead of us, I've been looking at them them and hearing stories from other countries. A friend's husband is Slovakian and is so confused as to why we've done so poorly (measures wise)

Ginger n Lemon

Colibri wrote: »

I'm not on either side so don't label me, but this is interesting

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/slovenia-calls-an-official-end-to-its-coronavirus-epidemic/

You need to get on the side of reason and demand lockdown to be lifted way ahead of schedule.

Slovenia isnt much more superior than Ireland, and their healthcare funding is less than Ireland.

We messed up initial proceedings but it doesnt mean that we need to mess up for next 3 months and put 10000 + out of work permanently and have 30bn budget deficit to deal with in October.

growleaves

A friend's husband is Slovakian and is so confused as to why we've done so poorly (measures wise)

Since the Czechs and Slovaks used to form one country between them, they might make for a good direct comparison.

Wibbs

growleaves wrote: »

Since the Czechs and Slovaks used to form one country between them, they might make for a good direct comparison.

Not really G, as they both enacted very similar policies. Basically they followed the East Asian model(who also have much better numbers than us and Europe) rather than dither about reinveting the wheel. Strict border control, masks in public places, quarantining, lockdowns. We've only done one of those things, so it's no great wonder that though our numbers were all pretty similar at the start, they "flattened the curve" much more quickly and are coming out the other side of things much more quickly.

polesheep

Stark wrote: »

Yeah I live with a healthcare worker who used to work 5 days a week before the crisis and is now oddly on a 3 day week. (much to my annoyance as I have to WFH so that means her under my feet 4 days a week. And don't get me started on her milking her essential travel pass for all its worth for social purposes while chastising everyone else in the house to "not even think about doing anything that might put you at risk as you do a great disrespect to all frontline health workers"). Other people I know in healthcare also report that it's quite quiet. Fair enough, if things had gone differently they could all be in a very bad situation right now.

Lots of healthcare workers went from five to three days, but the three day shifts are 13 hours (ward shifts). I don't know of any nurse or doctor who wants to be given hero status but when you suddenly find yourself doing random night and weekend shifts without childcare, it ain't easy.

boring accountant

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

It's like an alternative universe in here at times. Same posters would be moaning about the gubberment if they sat on their hands and did nothing. Bizarre.

Not bizarre at all. No one wants the government to sit on their hands and do nothing so it wouldn’t be hypocritical to criticise the government for doing nothing.

Most of boards will never challenge the government view. It’s a wonder why they ever even join a discussion group.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Oh my Lord. We can only compare countries that did have a lockdown and those that didn't.

The obsessive Swede-o-mania on this site is because it is reasonable to assume that Sweden is similar to other (Northern) European countries.

Yet posters have tried to dodge this and say that Sweden is different culturally, geographically etc.

If you're saying differences between countries are too great for lockdown to have a significant effect on outcomes, then you are admitting that the effect of lockdown is trivial

Look at the daily charts for Sweden and compare to any European country that had a lockdown. Everywhere else has peaked and fallen, while Sweden peaked and plateaued and they are still having 4000+ cases and 500 deaths a week. R0 at or above 1. Rest of Europe R0 significantly below 1. That was what the lockdown achieved. It did not prevent the rise, but has caused the R0 to drop to a rate where if we now move towards the Swedish social distancing model, an R0 of close to 1 will maintain and infection rate at a fraction of that in Sweden

Wibbs

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You need to get on the side of reason and demand lockdown to be lifted way ahead of schedule.

Slovenia isnt much more superior than Ireland, and their healthcare funding is less than Ireland.

We messed up initial proceedings but it doesnt mean that we need to mess up for next 3 months and put 10000 + out of work permanently and have 30bn budget deficit to deal with in October.

I agree, but in order to do that we then have to enact some of the policies of nations who have already to have done much better and copy them. We're not and we haven't been and if we do reopen now like them, we could be facing a major uptick in cases and deaths. As it stands our deaths are over ten times higher than the Czechs and many multiples higher than the Koreans, Taiwanese etc. There's more of this virus out there in this country than in those.

boring accountant

polesheep wrote: »

Lots of healthcare workers went from five to three days, but the three day shifts are 13 hours (ward shifts). I don't know of any nurse or doctor who wants to be given hero status but when you suddenly find yourself doing random night and weekend shifts without childcare, it ain't easy.

I’ve seen more than enough nurses posting pics of their faces on Instagram after wearing PPE all day looking for attention and adulation to know that there definitely is a subset that wants to be seen as heroes. Some people love the attention.

growleaves

Coronavirus: Health officials give green light to easing of restrictions from Monday

Seamai

pgj2015 wrote: »

I agree. Its like some of the shopkeepers in Spain who hate tourists and look at you like you are scum for some reason. They are probably crying out for tourists now.

I bet they are, it's like "we'll take your money but we don't want you". The last time I was in Barcelona I was taken aback at the "Tourists Fúck Off Home" graffiti. While I get their frustration I wonder have they made the connection between tourists and the amount of money they pump into the local economy both directly and indirectly.

polesheep

boring accountant wrote: »

I’ve seen more than enough nurses posting pics of their faces on Instagram after wearing PPE all day looking for attention and adulation to know that there definitely is a subset that wants to be seen as heroes. Some people love the attention.

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

growleaves

polesheep wrote: »

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

Not just the media though.

Leo Varadkar's speech mentioned them and large billboards all over the place.

lord quackinton

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm laughing at this. I am a temporary clerical officer in the Civil service and I earn €385 a week , yes €35 more than the Covid payments that I am processing every day for everyone who is safely at home.

If we were all fired and the Public Sector burnt (!) who would process these Covid payments that the country is living on, illness payments, pensions, payments for disabled children and their carers, grants that everyone from Bus companies, to schools to the tourist sector are screaming for now, who would collect taxes that pay for most government funding?

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector


i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.


why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

stephenjmcd

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0515/1138590-coronavirus-world/

polesheep

growleaves wrote: »

Not just the media though.


Leo Varadkar's speech mentioned them and large billboards all over the place.

Yep. And I would suggest that they were cynically used to promote the lockdown. The doctors returning from Australia had finished their contracts anyway and were heading off on holiday. There's now a whole host of newly qualified doctors stuck in Ireland fighting for the few positions available here. We haven't seen that in the media or being talked about by the Taoiseach.

Ginger n Lemon

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector


i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.


why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

Fully agree. and scrap that private hospital deal ASAP

"Private hospitals may pull out of the agreement which has seen the State take over their facilities during the Covid-19 crisis, if the HSE does not increase the number of patients it is sending them."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-private-hospitals-threaten-to-pull-out-of-state-deal-1.4253879

Lol i remember a poster from 1 week ago saying "its good that we have empty hospitals in case we need them". oh boy

its a bit like paying house insurance, mortgage on an empty house. its good to have in theory if you get kicked out of your current place, but actually no its not good at all.

Doctor Jimbob

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector


i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.


why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Fully agree. and scrap that private hospital deal ASAP

"Private hospitals may pull out of the agreement which has seen the State take over their facilities during the Covid-19 crisis, if the HSE does not increase the number of patients it is sending them."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-private-hospitals-threaten-to-pull-out-of-state-deal-1.4253879

Lol i remember a poster from 1 week ago saying "its good that we have empty hospitals in case we need them". oh boy

its a bit like paying house insurance, mortgage on an empty house. its good to have in theory if you get kicked out of your current place, but actually no its not good at all.

The masks are slipping there lads.

Benimar

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector


i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.


why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

Well colour me surprised :eek::rolleyes:

Stark

Doctor Jimbob wrote:

The masks are slipping there lads.

First post is ridiculous but I find the second post hard to disagree with. I don't like that we have a two-tier health system, it's grossly unfair but after seeing what happens when you put everything under HSE management, you can see why it's a necessary evil. Need to sort out the incompetence there before we can safely bring everything under public ownership. Or maybe have an access for everyone system but with some hospitals allowed operate independently without HSE interference (which I think is the SláinteCare model?)

Doctor Jimbob

Stark wrote: »

First post is ridiculous but I find the second post hard to disagree with. I don't like that we have a two-tier health system, it's grossly unfair but after seeing what happens when you put everything under HSE management, you can see why it's a necessary evil.

Ah I agree with him on the hospitals, it was the fact he said he fully agreed with the first post I was getting at

Ginger n Lemon

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Ah I agree with him on the hospitals, it was the fact he said he fully agreed with the first post I was getting at

Just seeing if anyone pays attention to my posts.

It seems like atleast 2 people do, my work is appreciated. :pac:;)

PS #scrapprivatehospitaldeal

jibber5000

polesheep wrote: »

Of course, nurses are no different to any other cohort in society. That's kinda what I was saying. The media milked 'bringing the medics home' for all it was worth and any medic I know thought it was cringeworthy.

It was beyond cringeworthy. Especially when most of these doctors were earning >100k in Australia & New Zealand and were flown home for free.

What makes it worse is that the vast majority arnt working as the hospitals don't need them.

Hospitals are overstaffed due to the low patient volume.
Yet there are another 1,000 junior doctors starting work on Monday to further oversaturate the system.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

Yep. And I would suggest that they were cynically used to promote the lockdown. The doctors returning from Australia had finished their contracts anyway and were heading off on holiday. There's now a whole host of newly qualified doctors stuck in Ireland fighting for the few positions available here. We haven't seen that in the media or being talked about by the Taoiseach.

They've all been guaranteed internships....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-pledges-that-1-000-medicine-graduates-will-be-offered-an-internship-1.4231678