Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

CruelSummer

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly there should be no lockdown and no 350 covid payment.
then no covid payment is needed to be processed weekly.
your role then is not necessary and you are free to come work in the real world i.e private sector


i dont care about people, charities, schools and those who live permanently off the welfare state. i will be honest here, i detest them.
reduce ALL taxes and cut public expenditure excluding capital projects but outsource all contracts awarded to private markets.


why should hard working private sector employees pay large taxes to fund the lavish employee wages of public sector, government funded semi states and charities and the generous social welfare programs that exist for the welfare class.

You don't care about people...charities...schools...I can't help but imagine you're one of those nice 'people' that drive oversized cars and try and mow everyone down in your way...
I don't think this helps your cause arguing for a reduction in restrictions if you don't care about people in the first place. There is plenty of good in the public sector, and plenty of bad in the private...like someone who says they don't care for all of the above and just themselves. That will get us nowhere long term.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose I am lucky to have my job. A few thousand extra euro off the take home salary...

I can make that up in a a couple of weekend locums over the course of the year (cash in hand of course).

Hope you have a job to go back to, old chum. This depression is going to be brutal.

I am actually a public servant too, funny enough, but the one that remembers 2009.

The "temporary measures" ahhh, yes indeed, it does get depressing.

PS i am also lucky to have my job. Everybody who is in employment now are lucky to have their jobs, but just because we have a job we can't possibly even consider government is handling things well or that continuing with current strategy is a viable solution. (its viable if we are in the business of destroying jobs)

the kelt

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hmmm wrote: »

We can't be making decisions based on "belief", we make decisions based on science and there is still a lot unknown about kids and this virus. The Irish government is taking a conservative approach, and I think most people are happy with that - let other countries experiment on their kids. If it works great, we'll open the schools.

Do you honestly think all other countries arent using science and we arent moving as quickly as them because we are somehow just more caring and careful??

Please dont tell me your peddling this belief that all these other countries dont care for their citizens/children as much as we do and are prepared to just experiment with their lives.

Of all reasons for having slower easing of restrictions that ones pretty pathetic in all honesty, them Danes, sure they dont love their children as much as us Irish, sweet Jesus!

JoeExotic81

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

You should be more than able to outbid those pesky hairdressers on a few masks to save the lives of "your patients" so "doctor" no :rolleyes:

Not a doctor, chum. I did order a 100 facemasks for myself. Seen the selfishness on here and decided "Hey, ho, I'll join in".

The next thing I'm going to start doing that the majority of the people who liked this post DO is start lying.

I'm going to lie about everything to suit my own agenda. **** the greater good.

Pro economic brigade policy for life. Let all the old people die. Am I doing it right, chum?

JoeExotic81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not a doctor, chum. I did order a 100 facemasks for myself. Seen the selfishness on here and decided "Hey, ho, I'll join in".

The next thing I'm going to start doing that the majority of the people who liked this post DO is start lying.

I'm going to lie about everything to suit my own agenda. **** the greater good.

Pro economic brigade policy for life. Let all the old people die. Am I doing it right, chum?

JoeExotic81

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

Oh goody, can't wait for this to be used against me when taking out of context? Guess the sarcasm was missed.

PowerToWait

Wales and Scotland not easing any restrictions for at least a fortnight.

Der gubbermint must no nuttin, same as ours. Not even one thought spared for all the hair dressers and their clients.

vid36

I don't get this argument. Different countries are adopting different policies to reopening. Different countries have different peaks and scale of outbreak. The rule of thumb as Dr Fauci puts it should be two weeks of declining cases and two weeks of declining death totals. Denmark and Austria have had fewer deaths than us and they have substantially fewer new cases every day, both currently under 50 so it makes sense for us to adjust our road map according,

stephenjmcd

From RTE

The Czech Republic said today it would allow gatherings of up to 300 people later this month as coronavirus infections remained among the lowest in Europe.

Gatherings including sports events will be allowed as of 25 May, when businesses including restaurants and pubs will also be allowed to open, Health Minister Adam Vojtech said.

Shopping centres, cinemas, barbers and restaurant terraces opened on Monday after nearly two months under lockdown.

The country of 10.7 million people had registered 8,352 confirmed coronavirus cases and 293 deaths by Friday morning.

"If the epidemiological situation remains favourable, the limit will grow to 500 people on June 8 and to 1,000 on June 22," Mr Vojtech said of the size of gatherings that would be permissible.

He said restaurants and bars would not be allowed to stay open after 11pm after a recent upsurge in South Korea was linked to night clubs.

Further easing would take place only if daily infection counts would not increase after staying well under 100 cases daily throughout May, said epidemiologist Rastislav Madar, part of an official advisory team.

Some credit the success in stemming infections to the mandatory face mask rule, which will be eased as of May 25, when they will only be required in shops, offices and on public transport.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

They've all been guaranteed internships....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-pledges-that-1-000-medicine-graduates-will-be-offered-an-internship-1.4231678

I was referring to those doctors that have completed their internships.

the kelt

the kelt wrote: »

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Do you honestly think all other countries arent using science and we arent moving as quickly as them because we are somehow just more caring and careful??

Please dont tell me your peddling this belief that all these other countries dont care for their citizens/children as much as we do and are prepared to just experiment with their lives.

Of all reasons for having slower easing of restrictions that ones pretty pathetic in all honesty, them Danes, sure they dont love their children as much as us Irish, sweet Jesus!

You win the internet today with that post. You are absolutely right to call out those that suggest that our conservative approach indicates that we are more caring than all our other EU partners

polesheep

jibber5000 wrote: »

I'm specifically talking about the rush to lionise those returning home from Oz as heroes, free flights, free accomdation etc when most of them were going to be coming home anyway to start scheme jobs.

The market is definitely not oversaturated in normal circumstances.

But this year due to guaranteeing all international graduates jobs, starting interns two months early and no junior doctors going to Australia in July, we're going to be oversaturated.

And broke. Just when we finally get more doctors, we can't afford to pay them.

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well seeing how Spain & Italy are opening up bars and restaurants 1st of June, it does seem like everybody forgot what happened there. Or maybe they realised Covid isnt deadly enough to warrant poverty.

Reality is, Sweden did not do what Ireland did. Sweden did not experience Italy or Spain. In fact Ireland number of deaths per 1 million is 300, In Sweden its 340.

Lockdown did seem to have very little effect on deaths. On the economic front though, 28% unemployment versus 7% in Sweden. Yeah. Not good.

Stockholm has experienced an Italy and Spain, not as in quite an intensely short period and all in one go, but their death rates are now comparable. Approximately 0.1% of the population of the greater Stockholm area has died from the virus, it is a comparable number of deaths per capita rate as much of Spain and Italy.Meanwhile the deaths in Spain and italy continue to fall, while in Sweden they remain consistently high. And this is a figure that Sweden should for some reason celebrate as a triumph?

Ginger n Lemon

vid36 wrote: »

I don't get this argument. Different countries are adopting different policies to reopening. Different countries have different peaks and scale of outbreak. The rule of thumb as Dr Fauci puts it should be two weeks of declining cases and two weeks of declining death totals. Denmark and Austria have had fewer deaths than us and they have substantially fewer new cases every day, both currently under 50 so it makes sense for us to adjust our road map according,

In theory yes but its far away from reality. We need a practical approach.

If we come out of this pandemic with 20% long term unemployment while other countries will have 4 - 8 %, that can not be good for our future ability to fund our healthcare and in turn ensuring good quality of life and long life expectancy for our citizens.

Other countries recognise this, there is no formula or Dr Fauci model that says "if your cases reduced 5 days in a row you can open barbers and go get a haircut". Or if you have 1000 new cases per day but 0 deaths you should go back into lockdown.

NegativeCreep

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From RTE

The Czech Republic said today it would allow gatherings of up to 300 people later this month as coronavirus infections remained among the lowest in Europe.

Gatherings including sports events will be allowed as of 25 May, when businesses including restaurants and pubs will also be allowed to open, Health Minister Adam Vojtech said.

Shopping centres, cinemas, barbers and restaurant terraces opened on Monday after nearly two months under lockdown.

The country of 10.7 million people had registered 8,352 confirmed coronavirus cases and 293 deaths by Friday morning.

"If the epidemiological situation remains favourable, the limit will grow to 500 people on June 8 and to 1,000 on June 22," Mr Vojtech said of the size of gatherings that would be permissible.

He said restaurants and bars would not be allowed to stay open after 11pm after a recent upsurge in South Korea was linked to night clubs.

Further easing would take place only if daily infection counts would not increase after staying well under 100 cases daily throughout May, said epidemiologist Rastislav Madar, part of an official advisory team.

Some credit the success in stemming infections to the mandatory face mask rule, which will be eased as of May 25, when they will only be required in shops, offices and on public transport.

Had the chance to move to Prague a few years ago. Should’ve taken it!

stephenjmcd

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

Ginger n Lemon

wakka12 wrote: »

Stockholm has experienced an Italy and Spain, not as in quite an intensely short period and all in one go, but their death rates are now comparable. Approximately 0.1% of the population of the greater Stockholm area has died from the virus, it is a comparable number of deaths per capita rate as much of Spain and Italy.Meanwhile the deaths in Spain and italy continue to fall, while in Sweden they remain consistently high. And this is a figure that Sweden should for some reason celebrate as a triumph?

I dont want to bring Fintan into this discussion but the 0.1% of the greater Stockholm area as you say seemed to have experienced flu and not covid? Flu mortality is 0.1%.

The triumph as you ask, is having a sustainable strategy that saves as many lives as possible but doesnt compromise your ability to fund your healthcare service (or any other service such as law enforcement etc) in the future. So yes, their strategy is a triumph while UK will be freezing NHS pay and highly likely introduce hire freezes as well.

Doctor Jimbob

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

Can't see the logic in that at all tbh.

irishlad123456

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

They’re taking the piss now, might as well tell businesses to stay shut forever at this rate.
Who’s making these decisions, it is absolutely shocking that the government are being bullied around by Holohan on decision making!

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

This makes 0 sense.

Homeware stores are just as huge as hardware so social distancing etc can be practised identically in both. What is this i dont even...

stephenjmcd

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Can't see the logic in that at all tbh.

Dont understand it myself either. If the likes of woodies can open then surely an IKEA can open given your still not supposed to go more than 5k

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont want to bring Fintan into this discussion but the 0.1% of the greater Stockholm area as you say seemed to have experienced flu and not covid? Flu mortality is 0.1%.

The triumph as you ask, is having a sustainable strategy that saves as many lives as possible but doesnt compromise your ability to fund your healthcare service (or any other service such as law enforcement etc) in the future. So yes, their strategy is a triumph while UK will be freezing NHS pay and highly likely introduce hire freezes as well.

If you are unable to understand the different between a virus having a mortality rate of 0.1% among infected individuals and a virus with a much higher rate of mortality killing 0.1% of a population overall it is pointless to continue further

FishOnABike

daithi7 wrote: »

.
.
- specific things like schools & unis should be looked at also( evidence kids under 10 are not vectors & these are low low risk groups in a un infected country now)
.
.

What evidence is there that under 10s are not vectors & are low risk groups?

The largest population study I've seen ( https://zoonosen.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/analysis-of-SARS-CoV-2-viral-load-by-patient-age.pdf ) which compares viral load, as a proxy for infectivity, in 3712 SARS-CoV-2 positive patients from 59,381 screened found no difference in viral load between age groups and cautions - "The viral loads observed in the present study, combined with earlier findings of similar attack
rate between children and adults (2), suggest that transmission potential in schools and
kindergartens should be evaluated using the same assumptions of infectivity as for adults."

the kelt

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

???

Why?

And to think people are convinced that we are just being careful and will deffo open things ahead of schedule down the line lol!

We cant even start a full phase 1 opening with all the numbers apparently where they need to be!

It doesnt affect me in anyway in all honesty but whats the logic behind it?

Ginger n Lemon

wakka12 wrote: »

If you are unable to understand the different between a virus having a mortality rate of 0.1% among infected individuals and a virus with a much higher rate of mortality killing 0.1% of a population overall it is pointless to continue further

This thread is about lifting restrictions in Ireland.

I believe there is a Sweden covid strategy thread elsewhere where there is a big debate going on about who is right and who is wrong.

Which is strange given that Ireland has 300 deaths per 1 million while Sweden 340.

Doctor Jimbob

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This makes 0 sense.

Homeware stores are just as huge as hardware so social distancing etc can be practised identically in both. What is this i dont even...

Even aside from that, some homeware shops are open already. The Range has been open for weeks, I assume they're getting around it by having pet supplies and a garden centre.

I'm generally on the more cautious side in all of this but allowing some businesses to remain open while their competitors are forced to stay closed is a bad route to go down.

irishlad123456

irishlad123456 wrote: »

They’re taking the piss now, might as well tell businesses to stay shut forever at this rate.
Who’s making these decisions, it is absolutely shocking that the government are being bullied around by Holohan on decision making!

well feck that now! This makes no sense. I need some mats for outside the back door, IKEA's are great and so cheap, I also need bedclothes. FECK IT ALL AT THIS STAGE :mad::mad:

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This thread is about lifting restrictions in Ireland.

I believe there is a Sweden covid strategy thread elsewhere where there is a big debate going on about who is right and who is wrong.

Which is strange given that Ireland has 300 deaths per 1 million while Sweden 340.

Right,why do certain posters keep bringing up Sweden in this thread then?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well seeing how Spain & Italy are opening up bars and restaurants 1st of June, it does seem like everybody forgot what happened there. Or maybe they realised Covid isnt deadly enough to warrant poverty.

Reality is, Sweden did not do what Ireland did. Sweden did not experience Italy or Spain. In fact Ireland number of deaths per 1 million is 300, In Sweden its 340.

Lockdown did seem to have very little effect on deaths. On the economic front though, 28% unemployment versus 7% in Sweden. Yeah. Not good.

manniot2

Homeware stores not allowed to open next week, but hardware stores can. Can someone explain the science behind that one to me?

jibber5000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not a doctor, chum. I did order a 100 facemasks for myself. Seen the selfishness on here and decided "Hey, ho, I'll join in".

The next thing I'm going to start doing that the majority of the people who liked this post DO is start lying.

I'm going to lie about everything to suit my own agenda. **** the greater good.

Pro economic brigade policy for life. Let all the old people die. Am I doing it right, chum?

What do you think is going to happen the health service during the recession that's coming?

I don't recall any poster here having an issue with the lockdown, when the data seemed to suggest Covid carried a much higher risk than we now know. As time has progressed we've learned that, thankfully it is not as serious as first indicated.

However we still continue to have a lockdown in large swaths of the country which are not recording daily CASES nevermind deaths.

Our health service has really struggled to train and retain doctors for a multitude of reasons, primarily the massive disparity in the consultant contracts from 2012 on. A lot of peripheral hospitals are populated by locum consultants who have not completed training schemes.

This has a massive impact on patient care. Any chance we had of resolving this mess has been shot to pieces by Covid. When we are plunged into a massive recession, exacerbated by our excessive lockdown, the money needed will not go into our health service. This will lead to poorer outcomes for patients in all disciples, especially outside the large urban hospitals.

Brandishing people with legitimate concerns as parriahs for being "pro economic" is so lazy and weakens all the arguments you are making.