Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

NegativeCreep

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

Absolutely ridiculous. I wonder what brain dead excuse there’ll be to justify this. Bet we’ll get the finger wagged at us again for being bold boys and girls while NPHET still can’t get testing and contact tracing up to scratch. Demoralising.

Kermit.de.frog

Sweden is not making any progress at all on its death toll. Another 117 today.

Here we'll be under 10 daily imminently and far fewer new cases.

It is a complete lie that the measures have not worked or were not needed.

They clearly have worked and we are in a far better position for it.

Countries without control will face continued international restrictions on travel and business.

As a result of our measures and the compliance of the population we wont be one of them.

Ginger n Lemon

No love for our idea of saving the economy, below is from S Harris

"Earlier openings

The minister also appeared to pour cold water on hopes of some businesses opening sooner than is set out in phased roadmap.

He said allowing some places to open to sooner could cause the plan to collapse.

When asked if people might be able to move beyond the 5km in order to travel to their local club to play non-contact sports, the minister said the government will consider all of these issues.

The 5km rationale is that the further people travel from home, the more risk there is of the virus spreading, he said.

“I would be nervous about moving too far beyond that advice,” he said."

We have people in charge who have no courage and very little common sense.

https://www.thejournal.ie/phase-one-easing-restrictions-cabinet-5099611-May2020/

vid36

Germany has a criteria for reimposing lockdowns, if a state has more than 50 new cases per 100,000 population over a 7 day period.

Allinall

manniot2 wrote: »

Homeware stores not allowed to open next week, but hardware stores can. Can someone explain the science behind that one to me?

I would presume it's because outdoor workers are going back to work on Monday, and will require supplies.

batman_oh

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sweden is not making any progress at all on its death toll. Another 117 today.

Here we'll be under 10 daily imminently and far fewer new cases.

It is a complete lie that the measures have not worked or were not needed.

They clearly have worked and we are in a far better position for it.

Countries without control will face continued international restrictions on travel and business.

As a result of our measures and the compliance of the population we wont be one of them.

A far better position to do what though? The virus isn't going anywhere. Should we just maintain everything as is for the next 2 years? It's really low now and will likely rise every time we get to one of our stupidly drawn out phases. Do we just drag it out forever?

Dayor Knight

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There is no science behind lockdowns, wearing masks outside of hospitals or making airplanes fly with empty middle seats.

Theres a lot of science behind washing your hands.

We are the country who are experimenting with our kids mental health and social abilities, and educational prospects too. We are damaging our kids. Unfortunately. And as Leo said, it will look pretty bad if we are the last country to get our kids back to school.

We need to change and fix things much faster than 21st of July or 10th of August.

There's no science behind lockdowns? Are you serious?

Doctor Jimbob

Allinall wrote: »

I would presume it's because outdoor workers are going back to work on Monday, and will require supplies.

The original plan was to have homeware open as well though.

I was happy enough with the roadmap but already cutting back on it at phase 1 with no obvious reason is discouraging.

Ginger n Lemon

Dayor Knight wrote: »

There's no science behind lockdowns? Are you serious?

I am. There is no scientific paper on effectiveness of putting healthy people into quarantine. This has never been done before and, well obviously, effectiveness of such could not be reviewed.

There have been plenty of Japanese studies & Chinese studies done that showed people contracting the virus while staying indoors. in fact 299/300 sampled covid infections were contracted from indoors in 1 such study.

storker

Deleted User wrote: »

Pro economic brigade policy for life. Let all the old people die. Am I doing it right, chum?

The "let-'er-rip" brigade.



.

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

What a joke

It should more places opening up not less

This does not bode well for the remain phases

Kermit.de.frog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This has never been done before .

Just not true.

Why do you insist on saying things that are patently false?

The Irish government have made a right mess of things with their 5 year reopening plan.

So we asked businesses to think about how they can reopen with distancing in place. Businesses went away and found solutions. Put the solutions in place to reopen. But are still not allowed to reopen anyways.

The 5km rule is still in place. This is an absolute joke. Some people are not able to see family to late July if they follow the rules. While others can do so from Monday... because thats not going to cause a lot of bitterness in society.

We also need to redefine the word essential. A lot of things weren't too essential on 8th March, but are much more essential on 15th May.


What numbers do we need to enter phase 5? Seriously... If we can't even properly start phase 1, how the hell will we ever start phase 5? Are we just going to reach a point were we literally have no money left?

The one thing I have heard the government mention is air travel. Also the one thing that practically nobody cares about right now.

Ginger n Lemon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Just not true.

Why do you insist on saying thing things that are patently false?

If you can link a scientific, peer reviewed published paper determining that lockdowns are effective or that putting healthy people into quarantine is an effective strategy to slow down disease please do.

Before then I stand corrected.

wakka12

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am. There is no scientific paper on effectiveness of putting healthy people into quarantine. This has never been done before and, well obviously, effectiveness of such could not be reviewed.

There have been plenty of Japanese studies & Chinese studies done that showed people contracting the virus while staying indoors. in fact 299/300 sampled covid infections were contracted from indoors in 1 such study.

What did they contract it from, their dog? If people stay indoors, there is no infection in the community. Community transmission ends abruptly and everwyhere if people follow the set rules. This has been demonstrated consistently across the world from Wuhan to London to New York. Lockdowns work at stopping widespread community infection. That is not up for debate

Where lockdowns fall down are, what is the point of them as infection will simply just pick up where it stopped off when they end

Jim Bob Scratcher

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

No love for our idea of saving the economy, below is from S Harris

"Earlier openings

The minister also appeared to pour cold water on hopes of some businesses opening sooner than is set out in phased roadmap.

He said allowing some places to open to sooner could cause the plan to collapse.

When asked if people might be able to move beyond the 5km in order to travel to their local club to play non-contact sports, the minister said the government will consider all of these issues.

The 5km rationale is that the further people travel from home, the more risk there is of the virus spreading, he said.

“I would be nervous about moving too far beyond that advice,” he said."

We have people in charge who have no courage and very little common sense.

https://www.thejournal.ie/phase-one-easing-restrictions-cabinet-5099611-May2020/

Our lord and saviour Tony has the final say :rolleyes:

Kermit.de.frog

The govt are doing what is best for public health and are being guided by the country's top health experts and are absolutely right not to be guided by the opinions of a tiny minority of cranks who, if they were listened to, would see us back in trouble in short order.

Not being able to visit IKEA is not exactly top of the list of concerns atm.

The plan on every metric has worked but we need to be careful about how we open up and the pace.

Ginger n Lemon

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Our lord and saviour Tony has the final say :rolleyes:

Unfortunately. We went and got ourselves into a dictatorship, where decision of 1 person affects millions.

jibber5000

jibber5000 wrote: »

What do you think is going to happen the health service during the recession that's coming?

I don't recall any poster here having an issue with the lockdown, when the data seemed to suggest Covid carried a much higher risk than we now know. As time has progressed we've learned that, thankfully it is not as serious as first indicated.

However we still continue to have a lockdown in large swaths of the country which are not recording daily CASES nevermind deaths.

Our health service has really struggled to train and retain doctors for a multitude of reasons, primarily the massive disparity in the consultant contracts from 2012 on. A lot of peripheral hospitals are populated by locum consultants who have not completed training schemes.

This has a massive impact on patient care. Any chance we had of resolving this mess has been shot to pieces by Covid. When we are plunged into a massive recession, exacerbated by our excessive lockdown, the money needed will not go into our health service. This will lead to poorer outcomes for patients in all disciples, especially outside the large urban hospitals.

Brandishing people with legitimate concerns as parriahs for being "pro economic" is so lazy and weakens all the arguments you are making.

I actually do agree broadly with your points. I think the restrictions are too restrictive. Sorry about having a pop at you earlier. You are correct, patients are the ones that are going to suffer. This thread can be a little frustrating at times.

Hope you are doing alright with the whole hospital situation. It's a weird old time in here.

Deeper Blue

So basically for 95% of the population nothing will change for the guts of another month

Joke

boring accountant

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Slight change in plans according to the independent. Homeware stores such as IKEA wont be allowed to open on Monday
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-homeware-stores-will-not-open-next-week-39209105.html

Someone needs to be fired. Miscommunication during a crisis is a sackable offence in most organisations. It undermines the legitimacy of the decision makers and by extension the lockdown if they chop and change for no reason.

Kermit.de.frog

boring accountant wrote: »

Someone needs to be fired. Miscommunication during a crisis is a sackable offence in most organisations. It undermines the legitimacy of the decision makers and by extension the lockdown if they chop and change for no reason.

We are trying to control spread of a pathogen.

That's the reason.

the kelt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The govt are doing what is best for public health and are being guided by the country's top health experts and are absolutely right not to be guided by the opinions of a tiny minority of cranks who, if they were listened to, would see us back in trouble in short order.

Not being able to visit IKEA is not exactly top of the list of concerns atm.

The plan on every metric has worked but we need to be careful about how we open up and the pace.

So why was it ok to include these stores in phase 1 2 weeks ago but not now?

Not that it matters a jot to me in reality but what metric has changed within the 2 weeks?

batman_oh

wakka12 wrote: »

What did they contract it from, their dog? If people stay indoors, there is no infection in the community. Community transmission ends abruptly and everwyhere if people follow the set rules. This has been demonstrated consistently across the world from Wuhan to London to New York. Lockdowns work at stopping widespread community infection. That is not up for debate

Where lockdowns fall down are, what is the point of them as infection will simply just pick up where it stopped off when they end

The UK are basically starting to open up everything again (too early for a lot of it). No border.
We get to zero in 6 months after annihilating the whole country and what - stop everybody from outside the country coming here for the next 2 years?

daithi7

vid36 wrote: »

Germany has a criteria for reimposing lockdowns, if a state has more than 50 new cases per 100,000 population over a 7 day period.

Oh, to get that kind of clarity from our crowd, not a chance.

In fact, they should already have criteria defined & out there for accelerating the end of lockdown.

Put it this way, there's only 4 cases of covid in CUH in Cork, in response to that we're locked down for another 12 weeks, with all private healthcare taken over & being run way below capacity, no electives, no surgeries, scans, tests, schools, state exams, businesses closed, workers being mandated to stay at home, etc, etc....& all this excessive caution costing us an absolute fortune every passing week...... let's get a grip, ... fast, I mean ffs!!

boring accountant

manniot2 wrote: »

Homeware stores not allowed to open next week, but hardware stores can. Can someone explain the science behind that one to me?

All of the governments decisions are based on science except when they’re based on gut feeling. And in those cases only heartless bastards would raise an objection to it.

crossman47

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Unfortunately. We went and got ourselves into a dictatorship, where decision of 1 person affects millions.

They are not his decisions. He gives advice. If the government just rubber stamps them they are abdicating responsibility.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Unfortunately. We went and got ourselves into a dictatorship, where decision of 1 person affects millions.

Meanwhile after all this is over, Tony and co will be sipping pina colada's, while everyone else will be struggling financially. Absolute ****ing disgrace!

ixoy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We are trying to control spread of a pathogen.

That's the reason.

Reallllyyy. That doesn't mean people can't wonder about the method in which it's done and why it's so slow when other countries are moving at a faster pace, especially as there's no indications we're about to, or came close to, being overwhelmed.

the kelt

ixoy wrote: »

Reallllyyy. That doesn't mean people can't wonder about the method in which it's done and why it's so slow when other countries are moving at a faster pace, especially as there's no indications we're about to, or came close to, being overwhelmed.

Your not allowed question, its science and numbers, just stay at home and dont question!