Britain commemorating VE day

whisky_galore

yosser hughes wrote: »

How do you feel about Ireland's role during WW2?

What was an economically crippled newborn nation supposed to do with a small collection of WW1 era military museum pieces vs Nazi Germany?

whisky_galore

policarp wrote: »

Plus Franco was allied to Hitler and Mussolini and changed the time zone from GMT to CET to piss the rest of Europe off.

Germany and Italy were very pissed off to say the least when Spain plumped for neutrality, in spite of the help they gave Franco.

da_miser

whisky_galore wrote: »

What was an economically crippled newborn nation supposed to do with a small collection of WW1 era military museum pieces vs Nazi Germany?

We where smart to stay out of it. Todays equivalent is exactly the same , what chance does Ireland have in a war against a super power?

whisky_galore

da_miser wrote: »

We where smart to stay out of it. Todays equivalent is exactly the same , what chance does Ireland have in a war against a super power?

Not to mention the war of independence and Civil War was still fresh. It would have made no sense to side with Britain, at least overtly. We did give the Allies a lot of under the counter support, we didn't jeopardise ourselves but we did know what side our bread was buttered on.

da_miser

Lets be honest, we where full on with Germany when it began, but once our cousins in USA entered the war , there was no doubt who we would be with!
Every Irish family has kin in the USA.

whisky_galore

da_miser wrote: »

Lets be honest, we where full on with Germany when it began, but once our cousins in USA entered the war , there was no doubt who we would be with!
Every Irish family has kin in the USA.

Eh, no.

The Irish govt sympathies and support were with the Allies, although a segment of the general population, through ignorance or "the enemy of my enemy" favoured an Axis victory.

krissovo

da_miser wrote: »

"Boys if you don't defeat those Germans, Pakistani rape gangs wont be free to roam north England and districts of English cities wont be run under Sharia law, so go out there and bash the Bosch" - Winston Churchill 1945
VE day celebrations in the UK is a country that pines for a better time, as bad as the war was..........................

Stay classy!

policarp

Why all the Brit bashing?
They were conquered by several so called civilisations
they did what they were subjected to.
The Irish are no saints when it comes to domination or brutality

da_miser

krissovo wrote: »

Stay classy!

Can you tell me when stating the truth became a issue?

da_miser

whisky_galore wrote: »

Eh, no.

The Irish govt sympathies and support were with the Allies, although a segment of the general population, through ignorance or "the enemy of my enemy" favoured an Axis victory.

Hell no, we where neutral despite the UK pressure, only when the US entered the war did we go with the allies

Tell me how

Ben Done wrote: »

The German President's speech to mark the day is well worth reading, particularly as some English papers were calling it 'Victory Over Europe' day..

https://www.bundespraesident.de/SharedDocs/Reden/EN/Frank-Walter-Steinmeier/Reden/2020/05/200508-75th-anniversary-World-War-II.html

Given the rhetoric and bluff and bluster we hear from two of the politicians we pay most attention to outside of our own, that really is a remarkably reflective and insightful speech.

Angela Merkel said before that 'We will find out just what we have learned from WWII when everyone who experienced it is gone".
This also touches on that message that it must be actively remembered, in order to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Zebra3

Tell me how wrote: »

Given the rhetoric and bluff and bluster we hear from two of the politicians we pay most attention to outside of our own, that really is a remarkably reflective and insightful speech.

Angela Merkel said before that 'We will find out just what we have learned from WWII when everyone who experienced it is gone".
This also touches on that message that it must be actively remembered, in order to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Which would be of little consolation to the victims of US war crimes in Vietnam.

Strange how Merkel ignores those victims.

JohnnyFlash

Zebra3 wrote: »

Which would be of little consolation to the victims of US war crimes in Vietnam.

Strange how Merkel ignores those victims.

Why would Merkel mention Vietnam? Any other conflicts she should have mentioned? The Zulu massacre of 1878? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The Chinese takeover of Tibet?

Your endless soap boxing has become very tedious.

lawred2

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Do you feel the same way abour ST Patrick's Day?

What? Not remotely comparable ffs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

lawred2 wrote: »

What? Not remotely comparable ffs

Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

lawred2

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

They weren’t the European police force. All countries except Germany wanted to avoid restarting the Great War. The force they sent to France was not half-hearted.

I think you'll find that empires of the time did indeed see themselves as a sort of police force; not for altruistic purposes obviously but more to police the distribution of the world's resources.

landofthetree

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

How do you know about it?

Oh that's right. You watch British TV like the rest of the Irish nation.

Don't watch British TV could be your solution.

Timberrrrrrrr

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

lawred2

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

You'll have to do better than that...

Jizique

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?

landofthetree

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.

lawred2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

I don't know about you but most Irish people I know pay next to no attention to 1916 celebrations..

Timberrrrrrrr

Jizique wrote: »

We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?

Different countries do things differently, I for one am shocked!

Street parties have been around for decades in the UK, They are a community tradition that you obviously dont understand.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

It's parading about and celebrating achievements that you personally did nothing to achieve and celebrating the location of your birth.

Timberrrrrrrr

landofthetree wrote: »

Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.

I have never understood this, they hate the country so much yet spend a large portion of their lives consuming as much T.V/Sports from that country as they can.

Muscles Schultz

Central Services wrote: »

The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

Indeed. Well the US and Soviet Union. England were hopeless early on Norway, fall of France, Singapore. It was only that Hitler was disinterested and didn’t dislike England all that much that he didn’t invade and stomp them in 1940.

This is an interesting poll-

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/05/01/Britain-America-disagree-who-did-more-beat-nazis

Timberrrrrrrr

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's parading about and celebrating achievements that you personally did nothing to achieve and celebrating the location of your birth.

That's correct, I wasn't even born.

Meanwhile my great grandfather fought in WW1 and suffered from inhaling mustard gas.

He then went on to fight in WW2 and lost his left leg from below the knee, gangerine set in and he eventually had to have the rest of his leg amputated. He died in 76 from lung complications due to his being gassed.

My grandfather also fought in WW2 for over 4 years travelling throughout europe to fight the Nazi scourge. A very quiet man he rarely ever talked about his experiences on the continent but one thing he said to me always stick with me.

"None of us wanted to be there but all of us knew we had to be there"

So while I personally wasnt there due to not being born for another 30 years I do take pride knowing that my grandparents were directly involved and any celebrations i take part in are to commemorate their sacrifices that they made so the likes of you and I can live the lives we do today.

Zebra3

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Why would Merkel mention Vietnam? Any other conflicts she should have mentioned? The Zulu massacre of 1878? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The Chinese takeover of Tibet?

Your endless soap boxing has become very tedious.

Did you not read what Merkel said about the horrors of WWII and not repeating them? Yet they have been repeated by one of her nation's allies. Why were no war crimes charges brought against US politicians and military leaders?

It shows that Merkel is full of shyt.

whisky_galore

da_miser wrote: »

Hell no, we where neutral despite the UK pressure, only when the US entered the war did we go with the allies

Get this, we were never truly neutral. Not now and not then.

The Irish govt at the time had a poor relationship with the US and the US ambassador in particular, who lead US efforts to pressure Ireland into joining the Allies and sucessfully pissed off his host country.

LeYouth

I'll tell you what's funny - is the Irish government having ceremonies for it.

whisky_galore

Jizique wrote: »

We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?

Commemoration isn't the same thing as celebration.
We didn't 'win' 1916, what's to celebrate?

Lefty Bicek

The Brits played their part in getting rid of the Nazis, and paid a heavy price for it, in human and material terms.

They are right to remember it. Their state should remember it, as should their people. There are plenty reasons in 2020 why both would want to refract the present through the past, and at this point in time they need something to rally around.

People often make sense of trauma and sacrifice by putting a meaning onto it, or a righteous position, or whatever. They may not know much about appeasement, Dunkirk, the (arguably) war-crime area bombing of Germany, the pandering to Stalin vis-a-vis the scandalous treatment of the Poles on VE Day, the loss of world status, and all the other whatabouteries.

But there are plenty UK citizens who are historically informed enough to put their own flag-waving masses right about thsose things.

Irish people sniping at everything the Brits do, on the other hand, is absolutely cringeworthy.

Sh1te thread.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

landofthetree wrote: »

Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.

So you're telling me you ONLY ever watch RTE?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That's correct, I wasn't even born.

Meanwhile my great grandfather fought in WW1 and suffered from inhaling mustard gas.

He then went on to fight in WW2 and lost his left leg from below the knee, gangerine set in and he eventually had to have the rest of his leg amputated. He died in 76 from lung complications due to his being gassed.

My grandfather also fought in WW2 for over 4 years travelling throughout europe to fight the Nazi scourge. A very quiet man he rarely ever talked about his experiences on the continent but one thing he said to me always stick with me.

"None of us wanted to be there but all of us knew we had to be there"

So while I personally wasnt there due to not being born for another 30 years I do take pride knowing that my grandparents were directly involved and any celebrations i take part in are to commemorate their sacrifices that they made so the likes of you and I can live the lives we do today.

I thanked mine peresonally. He wasn't one for parades either though, to be honest.

I'm neither for nor against them myself - I just like concistency. Saying that country A are bunch of jingoists who won't let something go, while country B must do it as a very important celebration of nationality and soverignity is, to me, hypocriticial.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blaaz_ wrote: »

Tbf we only have saorview where i live.....havnt watched bbc channels in years


Netfliz is where its at....do people even watch anything on tv channels anymore??

Fair point, but where was the stuff people watch on Netflix made?

lawred2

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I thanked mine peresonally. He wasn't one for parades either though, to be honest.

I'm neither for nor against them myself - I just like concistency. Saying that country A are bunch of jingoists who won't let something go, while country B must do it as a very important celebration of nationality and soverignity is, to me, hypocriticial.

That's fair to a point.

I don't object to commemorations in general. I tend to ignore them in the main.

But for me the tone of British commemorations generally tends towards triumphalism and jingoism. Moreso that most commemorations.

They have a bedfellow in the US in that regard really.

Edgware

Blaaz_ wrote: »

It used be joked,the japs sang the boys of kilmicheal after invading singapore....that general over em there,got his arse handed to em here in WOI and never stood a chance againest the japanese

A great bunch of lads, the Japs

Edgware

lawred2 wrote: »

That's fair to a point.

I don't object to commemorations in general. I tend to ignore them in the main.

But for me the tone of British commemorations generally tends towards triumphalism and jingoism. Moreso that most commemorations.

They have a bedfellow in the US in that regard really.

More rubbish.

Of course the Russians, French and Chinese ars all more sedate in their commemorations

lawred2

Edgware wrote: »

More rubbish.

Of course the Russians, French and Chinese ars all more sedate in their commemorations

Sure why not pick a military dictatorship in Africa while you're at it...

A rather low bar you set

TheValeyard

Never trust the Italians in war!

SEPT 23 1989

I agree with sentiment in this thread that the destruction of the third reich was a black mark on the history of the brits and should not be celebrated

extra gravy

Street parties everywhere and idiots doing the conga like social distancing never happened. Victory for Coronavirus Day more like.

Timberrrrrrrr

extra gravy wrote: »

Street parties everywhere and idiots doing the conga like social distancing never happened. Victory for Coronavirus Day more like.

Who was doing conga lines? The three street parties I observed were all socially distanced, families sat outside their own houses, music playing, no sharing of food or drinks, even the kids kept their distance from neighbours kids.

extra gravy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who was doing conga lines? The three street parties I observed were all socially distanced, families sat outside their own houses, music playing, no sharing of food or drinks, even the kids kept their distance from neighbours kids.

Plenty of photos and videos on Twitter of parties where social distancing wasn't observed and food and drinks were shared.

Timberrrrrrrr

extra gravy wrote: »

Plenty of photos and videos on Twitter of parties where social distancing wasn't observed and food and drinks were shared.

Ah the old anecdotal "theres pictures" line.

There are plenty of them for every country, it's not just a British thing. My own personal experience is that social distancing was kept, I'm sure some chose to flout this but they would be a tiny minority.

Mint Sauce

Why shouldn't the British Celebrate it, 75 years is quite a significant number. I could be wrong but the last time I remember Britain having such a celebration was 25 years ago at the 50th Anniversary of VE Day. I was still living in London at the time, and as a moody teen, I went up to Hyde Park thinking what is this all about. My mind was very quickly changed after getting there and nearly wanted to thank a few of the old blokes personally, for their efforts and sacrifices.

What ever chances there was of any of them being around this weekend, there's none for the 100th Anniversary, which will be a sad sad day.

andekwarhola

Seems to be far too much crap seeping into here that should be in current affairs of late

Isn't that what that forum was set up for, to let people do their tedious argument tennis thing as they wish?

extra gravy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah the old anecdotal "theres pictures" line.

There are plenty of them for every country, it's not just a British thing. My own personal experience is that social distancing was kept, I'm sure some chose to flout this but they would be a tiny minority.

If you say so. I just don't think people should be having street parties in the middle of a pandemic, whatever the reason. But each to their own.

Melanchthon

Whatever about the getting annoyed about the Brits celebrating, the French view of it is ridiculous.
De gaulle and his focus on having the Free French be recognized as liberating Paris.
The myth of the French resistance when compared to other countries it was a lot weaker.
The fact that the French post war made little real effort at removing collaborators, for example the Paris police chief in the 1950's that famously killed a lot of Algerians was a Vichy.

The Brits and allies in general had their faults particularly some pretty outright racist attitudes and betraying the Czechs, but some of the criticisms have to be put in context.
For example the USSR gutted Poland so presuming the Russians, after the war the free polish got a raw deal but could the UK really offend the USSR.
Similarly for the slow response to the Nazis the Brits needed time to rearm properly.

Timberrrrrrrr

extra gravy wrote: »

If you say so. I just don't think people should be having street parties in the middle of a pandemic, whatever the reason. But each to their own.

Have you seen the video's of people in ireland having them? Some shocking ones doing the rounds.