Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683731#Comment_120683731

I would think they will stay TATL, but an LR is just an a321neo with extra removable fuel tanks (and software/water/sewage tanks for 7/8hrs); so they could be reconfigured internally back to an all economy SH cabin. Why I think it won't happen 'in mass' is the IFE and seating - a bit of work to remove all that, and they're handy for smaller east-coast routes for better frequency... Summer/Winter daily flexibility up/down-gauging, near Europe morning rotations, and they're leased so they may have some limitations from the lessor on what configuration returns after 10yrs. 6xlrs will allow route expansion (dub/man) - my thoughts are there's a market for the 8+6... But possible s who knows.

moonshy2022

Is it possible that IAG have options on production slots or will simply take up slots/frames already booked by lessors when they take up their leases (not every aircraft if bought outright). So they have time to decide.

Personally I think they will buy/order new aircraft simply because of noise issues and savings there in at airports. The 320 NEOs are near exclusive in to Heathrow for that very reason. Huge savings per trip on charges.

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683787#Comment_120683787

Interesting but why would they take out the business class seats. The 8 current LR’s fly TA daily, the 6 new XLRs will be for expansion so can’t see the LR’s just doing SH.

Sexual Chocolate

I've always been under the impression that the XLRs are intended for new routes in the Mid West ?

Realistically how far into the US are they expected to fly ? Will we see them fly much beyond the Mississippi River ?

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684607#Comment_120684607

Here's a good 'real world" article from TAP. It's not necessarily about going much further, but being less restricted.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/airports-networks/tap-shares-its-long-range-narrowbody-learning

Sexual Chocolate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684931#Comment_120684931

Well what I've taking from that even though the XLR is not directly mentioned is that it's purpose is to eliminate the load/weight restrictions of the LR.

Putting that aspect aside the XLR should allow then flights to the likes of Miami, Nashville, New Orleans to name a few assuming EI keep with the 184 seat configuration. (?)

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684976#Comment_120684976

Possible.. likely. But if you fly an aircraft to the end of it's range, your paying to fly fuel (weight) so it gets less efficient overall, and you're back to possible limitations again. The xlrs' sweet spot will likely be 7/8/9hrs flying at EI configuration. Remember they fly a little slower than 330s.

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683352#Comment_120683352

I've often thought EIN really want is what the bought back in 2005. An A330Neo with GE engines.

I think engine choice is weighing heavier on the decision than generally considered it's as much RR vs GE as it is Airbus vs Boeing.

And to be honest, to date, EIN have benefited by being conservative.

From a business perspective one thing has emerged, it's now clear the cost curve across the Atlantic is now being sent by B787-9, and it speaks volumes that Norse and Westjet bypassed the cheaper A330Neo.

Then there is RR specific issues. Regarding the A330NEO......... this what TAP had to say and their experience with the Roll Royce engines on the A330Neo “The engine is not performing, but it's not a secret about the Trent 7000. Rolls-Royce is doing what they can to try and help, but the performance is not what it should be.”

Source https://aviationsourcenews.com/airline/tap-airbus-a330neo-engine-performance-not-up-to-scratch-says-ceo/

RR own outlook which resulted in Airbus “assuring customers and potential customers that Airbus will make sure engines and aftermarket support are available, without detailing how.”

https://leehamnews.com/2023/01/31/pontifications-new-rolls-royce-ceo-paints-a-dire-picture-all-scenarios-on-table-at-airbus/

We've all seen how the Pratt GTF issues impacted select airlines so I think EIN are right to postpose and order until we get engine clarity.

I'll go out on a limb and say it.....but I think it's more and more likely as time passes that we are looking at a GE powered B787-10 order...unless a GE power airbus emerges in the next few years.

HTCOne

I'm not sure if the engine choice is as important to you when you outsource all your heavy maintenance, and with power by the hour on RR engines, when they're off wing you don't pay for them. The cost is actually on RR, who need to provide you a replacement engine immediately which you again only pay for while it is actually running. They RR exclusive deal on the A350 expires some time towards the end of this decade and GE have made no secret they are interested, but if Ultrafan is successful then GE have nothing that can compete in the works yet.

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686054#Comment_120686054

The durability issue TAP was referring to has been addressed (in theory at least), but I do get the engine nervousness. A swap to the 787 would bring a lot of training costs to EI (pilots/cabin/maintenance), so hopefully the RR fixes prove successful, if the neo is their preferred option - it's oddly almost as fuel efficient as the 787 (according to Leeham on TATL) considering it's metal (and with all the knocks EI seem to get for some reason, maybe metal is a good thing).

I think by end-of-decade we'll be talking about potential a350neos.

john boye

I assume part of the appeal of the A330 is that its much shorter order list would mean EI could get their hands on them quicker.

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687080#Comment_120687080

They don’t seem in a rush to buy anything at the moment!

Sexual Chocolate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687080#Comment_120687080

Most likely yeah. There's a chance that the 787 could surpass 2000 orders by the end of this year or early next year making it the most ordered widebody aircraft ever. So delivery slots are going to be years to fulfill. 787-10 in particular are expected to increase with Boeing offering a increased MTOW of about 6.5 tonnes.

The A330neo order list will also increase when the likes of Delta put their highly anticipated top up order in for it. QF may also go with it to replace their older frames later this year as well. Than you've the Asian carriers on top of that too.

Noxegon

Be careful what you wish for. I'd put money on a 787 for EI being 3-3-3 in the back.

Sexual Chocolate

Like all except Japan Airlines though ?

What folk actually need to careful of what their wishing for is the A350 in 3-4-3 config. I'd like to think EI wouldn't be so bold though.

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687301#Comment_120687301

Yeah, that's more or less what all the airlines are doing.

Unfortunately the seats are a good bit thinner than those of the current A330 in a world where people are getting fatter.

goingnowhere

JAL 787 is heaven, regular 787 is horrible. 777 was grand at 3/3/3 now its 3/4/3

A330 is still king, they found a way to fit in another seat in the latest A350 production mod level so A330 is the best experience

I'm small guy but even I'm uncomfortable on the 777/787, only fly JAL now to JP never going back

kevinandrew

The 787 does feel noticeably tight in economy, the nine abreast config has long been the standard but it’s not a great experience, particularly on anything longer than a 8-9hr flight. It’s also a very cheap feeling cabin, for a new generation aircraft it rattles and creaks terribly, loose wall and ceiling panels seemed an issue on the early builds I flew on with LOT, Norwegian and BA. Less of an issue by the time Air France got their first example from my experience.

A350 is noticeably better, the wider, taller cabin means the same 9 abreast config feels much roomier and there’s definitely more shoulder room. Thankfully the 10 abreast offering doesn’t seem to have gained popularity outside a few high density leisure carriers and I doubt it will in the near future.

Either way, at speed fleet replacement is moving, I doubt we’ll see either of them in operation with Aer Lingus. We’ll be lucky to get a handful of A339s, which will just be more of the same from a passenger point of view, maybe with the addition of premium economy at last!

Sexual Chocolate

EI have had to rebook my outbound flights to LAS later this year as my AA connection from LAX has been cancelled. Now flying into SFO and onto LAS with United, on a MAX 9 I believe, which gets me there about an hour earlier and with a safer connection time of about 3 hours in SFO. Win win.

Could of going via ORD and get into LAS around 18:00 (2.5hrs earlier) but when he said Chicago the first thing that popped into my head was EIK & EIL. 😅 I do want to experience a flight on one of them but just not on this trip. In all seriousness I don't fancy a 2nd 3.5hr flight. From SFO it's like an hour and 10 mins.

What's SFO like for transiting through ?

Sexual Chocolate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690804#Comment_120690804

Condors new A330neo are cool as fcuk inside. No premium economy though.

I've been on the 787 three times with QR and was lucky enough to have the middle seat empty on all 3 flights so can't comment on space but the in-flight entertainment box down at your feet was quite annoying. The CX A350 was more pleasant in fairness.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691200#Comment_120691200

There is a airside connection route from Intl Terminal G (which EI use) to Terminal 3 which United use and you can get from Terminal 3 to Terminal 2 airside also

Sexual Chocolate

Happy days. I don't think it was going to be that straight forward for me in LAX.

kevinandrew

Condor have definitely done a great job with their new cabin and it shows what can be done when a genuine effort is made. Others like Aegean, Air Baltic and Air Astana have made their narrow-body cabins really distinctive.

Unfortunately I don’t see this being the case at Aer Lingus anytime soon, the A321LR was a good opportunity to introduce a new interior identity but they went with the most generic, off the shelf design possible and seemingly have zero intention of making it consistent across their long haul fleet.

While many would argue that cabin design should be a long way down the list of priorities at Aer Lingus, a well run airline should have the vision and capability to implement different projects across the business in a timely manner.

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691733#Comment_120691733

I agree regarding brand consistency (cabin design) across the fleet... It's ridiculous, but I like (personally) the LRs economy style... adding colour covers (like the headrest) to the pillows would be a nice lift.

When the new 320neo (NSC) comes this year it'll be interesting to see the 'planned and ordered' cabin style as opposed to the SmartAvia 'unplanned' cabin of NSA/B. I expect it'll be the LR style on slimline seats (will be interesting to see if/how that's done/looks/pleather).

That'll show us what SH is going to look like for the next decade (and cabin layout for crew etc), and hopefully the LH cabins will get reupholstered with the dual-grey/coloured headrest cover.

Business class... Assume they'll move to vantageXL (330) and studio (XLR) at some point, but again I like the colour scheme. The ex-Qatar 330s are being redone this winter so that'll give an indication of where we're going... Someone (maybe Tenger) posted it's Vantage up front and LR cabin style in economy. Then the xlrs'... Will they make the jump to vantage studio or similar?

MICKEYG

I would hope easily accessible power prost (including USB) will be standard.

Sexual Chocolate

Are the new neos with 186 seats going to be more cramped than the older ceos with 174 seats or is it a case that Airbus just rejigged the cabin while keeping the space/pitch ect ?

goingnowhere

They rejigged the cabin, so the two toilets behind row 29 are now in the pressure bulkhead and a smaller galley, advice is keep ahead of row 13 as its a tiny bit tigher

kevinandrew

I wouldn’t expect much from the new A320neo cabin, I’d be very surprised if it’s anything other than the IAG narrow-body standard which is pretty abysmal to be honest.

British Airways A320neo economy;

The same seat can be found, in slightly different shades of grey, at the other IAG carriers.

One thing to note is that both BA and IB also feature a slightly nicer seat in the first few rows of their narrow body aircraft. It has more padding, feels wider and has an adjustable headrest while remaining a slimline style seat. This special treatment is because both airlines are considered premium carriers by IAG, which is laughable to be honest but that’s the way group seems to work.

With any luck Aer Lingus will at least get in seat power with their new A320neo fleet, maybe even WiFi but that’ll be a push.

I also expect Aer Lingus to clumsily rip out the tiny net seat pocket that comes as standard with these seats before they put them into service. Can’t have people using seat pockets!

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694293#Comment_120694293

Regarding WiFi... No 'hump' on it's back as yet (see roll out/by at end...

https://youtu.be/HXm_Q9JaLSU

kevinandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694470#Comment_120694470

I don’t expect it either way but they usually appear a bit later, often after delivery. Most, if not all, BA and IB A320neo deliveries arrive without WiFi installed and either get it before entry into service or during winter downtime.