Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

HTCOne

IIRC the RR engines on the CEO are the heaviest and most expensive to maintain of the 3 options, but they’re the most efficient in cruise due being triple spool. I can’t remember where the tradeoff advantage over the GE engines is (IE how many hours before the fuel saving in cruise overtakes the extra fuel burn in carrying the greater weight up to cruise level and the extra maintenance costs). When EI made their original purchase, they weren’t going beyond ORD, so the lighter engine made more sense. If RRs were procured and used on West Coast only, it might stack up financially , but 242t -300s are the newest ones and least likely to be available.

Bocages75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963761#Comment_120963761

My point exactly.

Manchester aircraft do not need to use Dublin for maintenance and can get RR qualified engineers locally anyway. so they could send the 2 GE engined aircraft back to Dublin allowing for Dub expansion and lease RR powered 330s going forward to allow Manchester’s ops and expansion.

now you have a large pool of quality used 330s to choose from and as is mentioned further down , ei will most likely end up dealing with RR donkeys on the 330 NEO anyway.

HTCOne

RR are almost exclusively power by the hour btw, so you lease the engines off RR, pay for them only while they are actually in use (by the hour obviously) then send them back to RR or an RR approved third party to be overhauled. They have the lowest time period between overhauls of the 3 engines on the CEO due their complexity relative to the GE in particular.

EI haven't done their own engine overhauls since they sold the engine shop near Baldonnell to Lufthansa. They haven't done their own heavy maintenance since selling TEAM to FLS, and the heavy maintenance has all been done in France since 2009 IIRC after they pulled the contract from SRT.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955302#Comment_120955302

I think if anything is added it will be Boston.

Trampas

Dee got tech in Athens yesterday after takeoff?

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970069#Comment_120970069

MAN-BOS was initially planned and announced for Summer 2021 (I think?)

Then cancelled/postponed.

I think we will have a clear picture on Aer Lingus new routes for next summer on Thursday 17th.

;)

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120972906#Comment_120972906

Thats a very early announcement for then.

Shamrockj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120972783#Comment_120972783

Bird strike

https://twitter.com/michaelkelly707/status/1690439390160461827?s=46&t=_tv0tctqrRLYv84TWZ-Q6g

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973091#Comment_120973091

Yup. Usually it September (I think)

EchoIndia

A330-200 EC-MAJ of Wamos due in DUB this evening to operate for Aer Lingus for a few weeks.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973792#Comment_120973792

operating the late DUB-IAD-DUB from tomorrow

coupons1987

Are they short on an A321 or is the capacity needed ?

dublincc2

My niece who is 19 going on 20 got a job recently with EI; she is studying marketing. She told me last week that the A330neo will be the replacement for the A350.

I view this as foolish, the A350 is an entirely new and more modern aircraft as opposed to an A330 with new engines.

Cookiemunster

It's been known for a number of years now that EI wouldn't be taking any A350s. In fact they took the final A330 CEO off the line only 3 years ago.

Shamrockj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974668#Comment_120974668

It would be foolish to purchase aircraft for vanity reasons, higher purchase prices, higher operating costs for the flights they operate, heavier weight = higher landing fees and different layout 3–3-3 vs 2-4-2 making aircraft swaps more difficult, higher training and simulator costs

veetwin

Screenshot_20230814_171113_Flightradar24.jpg

Just wondering are EI using a Saudia aircraft on the flight to IAD today or is it a regular thing

EchoIndia

See my post of less than 24 hours ago. It's a Wamos aircraft and no longer in Saudi livery.

kevinandrew

On lease until early September, it’s a Wamos aircraft (EC-MAJ) as reported a few posts up. Was in a basic Saudia livery as it was recently leased to them during Hajj charters.

Looks like EI-LRG (A321LR) is the one it’s covering, no flights scheduled in the near term but operated as normal yesterday so clearly pre-planned.

I hope this isn’t another symptom of the maintenance shortages?

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974668#Comment_120974668

With all due respect to your niece, she is only in the company a short while and may be still getting to grips with the industry.

She obviously misheard/mistook the terminology being thrown around at work. Easy to do when so many names are similar, and the operational staff use a lot of shorthand and acronyms.

EI have operates A330s since the mid 1990s. They had A350s on order 8-10 years ago, but this was quietly cancelled (transferred to Iberia) circa 2016. This order was in place before the A330neo was launched.

And (in my opinion) the A330neo is the glaringly obvious candidate for widebody fleet replacement. I would expect some announcement regarding that by the end of the year. (or even a hint by the end of this week ;) )

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977729#Comment_120977729

FR24 shows EI-LRG operating DUB-MUC tomorrow morning on EI352.

cson

That sucks for anyone who purchased a J fare that now gets that aircraft.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978146#Comment_120978146

She doesn’t intend to stay working in Aer Lingus permanently it’s just while she is in college the next few years, she told me that the ‘new engine type’ of A330 was actually called the A350 and the neo wasn’t really being sold and that she fully expects the A350 to be in EI’s fleet in 15 years, which I thought was true as a I remember they were publicising the A350 orders around when the IAG takeover happened.

So I’m confused, the neo I know is a separate aircraft, but are you saying the A350 is completely gone in terms of the future of EI, or just postponed as my niece says.

Tenger

The A350 is ‘too capable’ an aircraft for EI. It’s designed for long haul and as it is very new, it is very expensive.

EI ordered theirs circa 2005, when it was still intended as an upgrade to the A330 rather than a new design. (Ironically the A330neo is basically the culmination of that original design intent) Some time around 2006-2008 the design was completely revamped and relaunched as the “Airbus XWB”, which was a far more capable product.

so EI would be paying ~50m more per aircraft to operate 6-7 hour flights with an aircraft designed for 10+ hour flights. ($260m versus $315m)

so each aircraft would need to make more money to balance that extra acquisition cost. (2.5 per year over a 20 year lifespan) At the time Aer Lingus we’re interested in a ‘derated’ version of the A350. (Essentially a software fix to reduce fuel consumption) Indicating that they didn’t need the full capabilities.

The A330neo (new engine option) was launched in 2014. It was to be a successor to the popular A330 as well as an alternative/complementary option to the cutting edge A350.

EI might very well obtain A350s in 10-15 years. But at the moment the A330neo is pretty much perfect for what they want. The current A330 suits their market and their route network. (Even allowing for a couple more 8-10 hour routes) The transition would be close to seamless. And the fuel efficiency is very attractive.

Aviation being what it is, no-one can predict what will happen in 10-15. Your niece is falling afoul of the discussion of potential scenarios based on assumptions of constant growth/expansion. Head office types love these discussions. Meanwhile the frontline staff at Aer Lingus are firefighting daily to try keep the current fleet and schedule running.

When I was in Aer Lingus back 15 years ago I saw plenty of future fleet plans. Even detailed route planning for Dublin-Capetown in the mid 2000s.

*apologies to any engineers that my non-technical post offends!!

kevinandrew

IIRC Aer Lingus was always an XWB (the current A350) customer, at least officially. The order was made in 2007, after Airbus had reimagined the aircraft from a re-engined A330 to the all new design we see today.

The A350XWB was launched at Farnborough in summer 2006, Aer Lingus ordered it in summer 2007. It was part of a 12 aircraft order; 6 A330s, 3 A350-800s and 3 A350-900s. Dermot Mannion, the CEO at the time, stated Airbus gave them an exceptional deal.

There was a rumoured re-evaluation of the order when the A330neo was launched, a few years before the IAG take over, and they still decided the A350 (now an order for 9 A350-900s) was the better choice.

Various financial crisis, deferrals, manufacturing delays and and a change in ownership at Aer Lingus have resulted in what we see today in terms of long haul fleet.

donkey balls

One of the lads in work was telling me he booked a flight for his daughter with EI to BHX, So she had a 10kg carry on bag outbound was a 320 and no hassle inbound was an ATR and the rep for Emerald said her bag was over their accepted weight of 7kgs.

But they would let her off this time I know the ATR are not like the 738 or 320, in that they are sensitive to W&B etc.

Find it strange that EI don't mention this when booking, I had something similar happen about 6 years ago going to MAN outbound was the 320 inbound an ATR but I didn't know until the flight was assigned and coped the 4 digit flight nbr.

Wether it was the checkin agent acting the mick with the young girl I'm not sure, But if you book a flight with a 10kg bag it should be both directions my mate thinks.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983835#Comment_120983835

They do mention it when doing the booking.

donkey balls

The time that I flew with them was via corporate travel, and was just giving the ticket. Any flights I use EI for is manly to the Canaries no so.chance of an ATR doing a sector.

You would think that EI would operate both sectors especially if someone is paying for just say a 20kg bag, And believe me I've worked around ATR both in pax &freight version and know how a few kgs over can cause problems.

Tenger

I get your point. The system should flag up different aircraft/regulations.

Especially because a USA-DUB-UK-DUB-USA itinery might be 330-320-UK-ATR-321LR.

EG. last week I was looking at booking flights from London to Italy with BA. When I selected my return flight PSA-LHR it flagged up that my outbound was LCY-PSA. I hadn't noticed at all. I just saw the departure time and price.

Back when I was with EI we sometimes had to operate the Bae146 into Heathrow. I would have to go up to the boarding gate and do a visual yes/no on carry-on items. (Perversely I did enjoy it, as LHR pax were often a bit arsey, as was I to be honest)

cloudhopper19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983835#Comment_120983835

They do mention it at time of booking and it's on the confirmation . I often travel on route that uses both the a320 and ATR and it clearly states the baggage/weight difference.

donkey balls

Just had a look on the app and it does flag it that the return sector is an ATR with a 7kg limit, Again I'm sure the non aviation people might not cop that, They assume they booked with EI and so it's an EI aircraft.

10 years ago there was a lot of traffic coming off the ATR in Dub for onward connection to the US, I couldn't even see myself going away for 2/3 weeks with a 7kg bag to the US.

I would say a lot people would prefer FR over EI as the allowance be the same on both sectors, And not worrying about bags being off loaded.