Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Sexual Chocolate

Not sure if I read it hear or elsewhere but it was mentioned that EI could be taking another two QR A330s next year depending on how QRs own deliveries of new frames pans out. However next year's summer schedule does not require any extra widebodies so its probably unlikely and is hopefully just a spoof.

But if true the irony of EI having the cabins on the other two refitted and two more mismatched ones join the fleet. 🙄

RE: Iberia's A330s, they are relatively young, especially their -200s. I doubt they'll be parting ways with them within the next 5 year's at the very least.

I'm not a big 787 fan but it probably does make the most sense for EI, the -10 to be specific. Other airlines seem to love theirs. QF also saw something in them to replace their A330s with. However it is range and weight restricted in comparison to other alternatives.

Yet it's hard to say though if EI are willing to change type altogether these days. At least with the A330neo or even the A350 it's not a massive move in comparison.

As the previous poster mentions, when the XLR arrives EI might have a better idea on the way forward with it's widebody fleet but at the same time DAA and GEY will likely need to be replaced within the next 5 years.

A smart move by IAG imo would be to order 45-50 A350-900 to replace BA's older GE 777-200s and EIs older A330s and dish them out accordingly over 5-10 years.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392328#Comment_121392328

That was me that posted that about the ex QR birds. Not a spoof as far as I was told. But sure you take every rumour with a pinch of salt until it actually happens.

kevinandrew

Nothing of too much interest in the IAG Capital Markets Day presentation this morning, as expected.

Confirmation of new business class seat on the A330. Iberia also getting a new seat, probably the same one?

‘First to Fly’ A321XLR in Q4 2024. Presumably this means within the group rather than actually being the first airline customer globally.

Long haul fleet to be 55% next generation aircraft by 2028, 45% mid generation. This seems based on current public plans of 14 A321neo + 13 A330 which is obviously likely to change but does suggest no next generation wide body for quite some time.

Vague mention of ‘refreshed’ seats and cabins but has no context. Guessing this means refits for the A330s while A320s are just slowly replaced by new build A320neo.

Interesting map of XLR range, much more extensive for EI than it will be for IB, opening up the likes of Nashville and St Louis from Dublin but just about reaching Washington from Madrid.

Presentation;

https://www.iairgroup.com/media/acypd44m/iag-2023-cmd-consolidated-presentation_final.pdf

sherology

Iberia use the new recaro seat in their newest a350 so likely they'll continue with these into their 330's. BA use Collins, so EI may go Vantage XL... I'd assume EIK/L would get the new seat as it's a complete head to tail refurb but who knows???

https://www.recaro-as.com/en/press/press-releases/details/recaro-aircraft-seating-cl6720-business-class-seat-with-sliding-doors-takes-flight-on-iberia-a350.html

kevinandrew

Believe EIK/EIL will get the current business class for the time being and then be among the last to get the new seat. New product probably won’t be launched until late next year with a two year roll out.

Definitely expected to get the new Recaro seat and entertainment system in economy though. The sooner the better!

NH2013

Looking at the presentation on the IAG Capital Markets day it compares the A321XLR to the Boeing 757 and says it’ll seat 7 less passengers than the Boeing which used to hold 177 passengers.

Hopefully this means that Aer Lingus have listened to their passengers and crews and are going to install an extra lavatory or two for economy and make the galleys bigger.

I believe the current A321LR holds 184 people, so looks like the XLR will hold 170 passengers or 14 less than the LR. Should also help with range if the aircraft is lighter.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121390117#Comment_121390117

One thing to remember is that the IAG ownership doesnt really have a day to day impact on operations. IAG allocate funds/aircraft slots to individual airlines as requested (based on a presented business case), the airline itself then operates the aircraft under their own support network.

So if EI present a case that the A330neo is the best option then IAG will grant the funding and make the order/talk to leasing companies.

Yes, IAG have made some large orders (I think they have an order in for 100+ B737MAX as well as 80+ outstanding A320neo on order) These orders are allocated out to each airline as it makes it case.

I think the quote from kevinandrew yesterday adequately sums up the dilemma for Aer Lingus fleet planning:

"I think the engine options are proving to be a sticking point when it comes to wide body fleet renewal at Aer Lingus. Airbus can only offer Rolls Royce on the A330neo and A350 family; ........... I think Aer Lingus would have ordered the A330neo years ago if Airbus had been able to offer GE as an engine type, it would have been a no brainer................

So Aer Lingus (and IAG) will have to weigh up the costs of having a completely different type and all the costs that come with it like pilot retraining, maintenance etc. compared to a type they are well experienced with but has an all new engine which will have its own ongoing costs and potential reliability issues, limited growth, potentially even a cut in capacity if the airline is interested in introducing a premium economy product."

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395307#Comment_121395307

Current plans within EI are that MSP will be the furthest XLR destination. Preference is to add daily/double daily to existing LR airports. (EWR/YYZ) With the XLR operating the longer sectors, EG. IAD.

This plan could well be aimed only the initial 12 months of XLR operation.

L1011

How similar are the GEnx and the CF6? GEnx is meant to be entirely new (from the mid/late 00s) whereas the CF6 is 50+ years old at heart.

Unless there's some similarities between them, introducing Rollers isn't going to be much different to introduced GEnx surely?

goingnowhere

EI started as a RR house with the DART in the Viscount/Fokker and the Spey in the BAC1-11...

Moved to P&W with the 707/720/737 Jurassic

Then finally the CFM (so half GE) with the later 737's

Then the CF6 appeared as part of the now legendary Bernie Cahill deal, guy goes to France and comes back with 3 A330-300's for an insane price and container load of spares. CF6 was what was on the tarmac and thats how it ended up

If you opt for a power by the hour deal with RR, then its RR's problem to keep the engine in the wing, but at what price.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397413#Comment_121397413

Would love to more about that Bernie Cahill and the A330 deal and the in and outs if that was possible.

Sexual Chocolate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397188#Comment_121397188

Hense why the A359 is probably the best suited aircraft with a layout akin to Iberia if EI do introduce premium economy.

J: 31

W: 24

Y: 293

Total : 348

EI obviously seen something in the A359 back in the day when they ordered it, and also knowing it had RR engines too so they clearly were at the time willing to go with a different engine manufacturer. If I remember right they did want a "Regional" version with a reduced MTOW but that never materialised.

goingnowhere

A359 would be perfect for SFO/LAX where the extra seats would reduce the need to go double daily on select days in the future.

4 A359's would cover SFO/LAX/SEA, this is where the range and payload of the A359 makes sense. For JFK/BOS the A330ceo is still a competitive aircraft when you factor in the capital cost of the aircraft and the fact the A359 efficiency is related to time in cruise. The last A330-300 to come off the production line EI-EIN is a very different beast to the 9th off the production line EI picked up as EI-DUB

Given fleet commonalty the A330 and A350 is in use across IAG IB/EI/Level A330 and IB/BA for A350 the cost efficiencies for parts and maintenance etc apply

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397271#Comment_121397271

Are there any plans to expand MAN/SNN/ORK with the XLR/LR?

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399257#Comment_121399257

Azul are handing their A359's back after a years operation as they found the A339 have a cost advantage on all its routes shorter than Paris to Sao Paulo.

Sao Paulo to Paris is longer than any existing Aer Lingus route so if Azul are right it would imply a A339 would have a cost advantage (over a A359) on all North American routes (including Mexico), anything north of Jo'burg and west of Bangkok out of either DUB or MAN.

A point to raise in the A359's defence is Azul isn't dealing with the winter headwinds that Aer Lingus does.

Source: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/129764-brazils-azul-to-retire-a350s-reports

I am surprised at the A321xlr's published shorter range with EI though, Airbus' own press release included it could fly London to Miami non stop, now we find it can only reach and arc from MSP to ATL. I thought Miami, Seattle and potentially the Caribbean and Vancouver were being considered for the A321xlr.

goingnowhere

Runway at ORK is too short to get A321LR off with anything close to a commercial payload to reach NYC, EI was struggling with 28L/10R in Dublin which is 500m longer than ORK

XLR makes no sense at SNN if its only BOS/JFK, but if you wanted to get to ORD then an XLR would make sense even if the LR would probably make it

sandbelter

Presentation;

https://www.iairgroup.com/media/acypd44m/iag-2023-cmd-consolidated-presentation_final.pdf

One thing does stand out in this presentation...the complete silence on Aer Lingus short haul.

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399928#Comment_121399928

You (and they) are right. The 339 is a great allrounder for the routes EI operate. The Trent 7000 had durability issues, as seems the norm with new 'hotter' engines, but this has been resolved with updated blade design and materials.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/our-stories/discover/2023/poweroftrent-what-is-new-for-the-trent-7000.aspx

If RR play fair with pricing and support (which they haven't been since their new CEO took over last year) then I'd go 339 as one type will do for all EI routes, all year, all weather, with the least upset to the main consideration - the people of EI. Carbon is cool, but metal is understood.

With the XLRs coming in, they can replace the oldest -200s as they get to their end of life, with double frequency to east and mid US, leaving the newer -300s (HGW) to do the west coast.

It kinda looks like EI will hold off ordering new widebody frames for a while as they don't seem to need them. Competent older -300s seem to be available - with planning - the refurbishment of cabins can be done prior to entry into EI service.

Wouldn't be a terrible idea to keep owned -200s in service, operating the early bucket and space routes, and providing a backup when frames go tech. Keep them active but with lower utilisation.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399928#Comment_121399928

Even if the XLR can reach SEA and YVR from Dublin, they’ll never operate west coast for EI, not unless they install a crew rest which I’m not sure the XLR can even fit?!?

LimaBravoTango

I have noticed that EI have returned to registering aircraft with “customised” letters rather than taking the next one off the list as Ryanair do (and understandably so with the amount of aircraft they operate). For example:

EI-LRx (meaning Long range)

EI-NSx (meaning NEO series)

Following recent trends, can we expect the XLRs arriving from next year to be registered as EI-XLx or possibly EI-XRx? 🤔

I know it’s a tiny thing but I find it interesting to observe. I’m aware that some of their original 330s were registered as -DUB, -JFK, -ORD etc.

Finally, this is my first time posting here having been a long-time reader. I hope I have done everything correctly.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400955#Comment_121400955

Having the last two letters of the registration run in a sequence, while not essential, is probably useful on a day-to-day basis to those who need to know which aircraft in the fleet they are dealing with or referring to. Most airlines do this to one extent or another, though it nearly always breaks down as soon as used aircraft or those from other sources are added later. Several registrations in the EI-XL. series were used already for Transaero (Russia) 747s.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400955#Comment_121400955

EI still have aircraft with the reg matching an airport….. one being EI-FNJ 👀🤣

And yes you did everything right, welcome to the forum. It’s a shame the IAA don’t generally allow the reuse of registrations, cause next up for the A330 would be EI-EIO 😂

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400955#Comment_121400955

They might as well just keep going with the LRx series on the XLRs.

Sexual Chocolate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400141#Comment_121400141

If EI are happy to keep the current cabin set up (circa 315-325 seats) with no premium economy then the A339 is perfectly fine, it should have the legs to do any route we could imagine EI ever doing, be it the far side of Latin America or South East Aisa. You can't beat the 2-4-2 layout either.

But if they do want to introduce PE down the line without any reduction in Y then they have to obviously go bigger, whether its the A359 or 78X.

The A339 really is a great aircraft for a upgraded 30 y/o frame which Airbus seem to pull off well as with the A320 line unlike Boeing with the 777X and imo the MAX. Delta have a lot of faith in them it seems as they're supposedly set to order more to replace their 767s and as time goes on with CEO operators looking to replace aging frames combined with the massive backlog on 787 orders it should gain more orders.

Regarding RR and they're recent pricing and quality issues it was interesting if not amusing to see Tim Clarke's comments about them regarding the XWB-97 last week regardless if he was right or wrong. Nobody else seems to have issues with the engine on the A35K, particularly QR or EY so it's possible he was wrong and it was just another bargain tatic but interesting none the less.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399928#Comment_121399928

They're undergoing restructuring so an opportunity to dump their newest, most expensive leases...?

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401089#Comment_121401089

I flew to FNJ a few years ago on P-885. That was an experience.

HTCOne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399928#Comment_121399928

The published range by Airbus of 4,700nm is prior to mandated alterations to the fuel tanks reducing capacity, with a less dense config in still air assuming direct routing and preferred Flight Level availability. Never believe the range figures given by the manufacturers, always aspirational. They also usually use a destination with multiple runways which many regulators also permit to be the alternate destination, thus reducing additional fuel requirements. The LR published range is 4,000 NM, in reality in winter ops it is ballpark 3,200 nm.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402200#Comment_121402200

Hahaha that’s gas, not sure it’s a trip I’d book myself 😂😂😂

LimaBravoTango

The rumoured PW-powered a321-271NX order for EI has seemingly disappeared on a320family.de . Seems as though it was an error. 🙁

Sexual Chocolate

Read that EI-DEI (rugby livery) has gone to Manchester for a C check and a new undercarriage to be done by STS. Would Manchester be the usual place they'd go or is this something new ?

EI-GCF is in BOD nearly a month now as well.

And LRD is supposed to be due back sometime in December.