Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191026#Comment_122191026

Come on now, that's an outrageously naïve statement to make. Even if the pilots got exactly what they are looking for in terms of pay increase, the cost to Aer Lingus would be a very small percentage of their typical profits. Not to mention the improved morale arising out of an amicable resolution would likely increase the willingness of the pilots to work on their off days and thus reduce the costs to the airline arising from cancellations.

The expansion of the airline is a matter for the executive suite to manage. Pilots seeking to improve their terms and conditions have no bearing on it. In fact, I would argue that the corner management have backed themselves into by refusing to improve on the offer they proposed over a year ago is the only thing driving the current situation. Forget what the pilots are asking for, the management appear to have made absolutely no attempt to find a middle ground.

I would also argue that the number one thing pilots are trying to achieve in these negotiations is the protection of their long term careers.

shamrocka330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191418#Comment_122191418

But the parent company moving the resources elsewhere is a pathetic move. What’s that going to achieve for everybody in the long run? They should be sitting down with their pilots, agreeing a solution and not coming up with silly negotiating tactics. This isn’t just about a pay rise, there’s a lot more to it including pay restoration, changes to rosters/work patterns etc. plus they risk losing any sort of flexibility from the pilots, which, according to people within the airline, is what keeps the operation going on a day to day basis.

knobtasticus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191418#Comment_122191418

Of course that’s what IAG have said - it suits their bullsh*t corporate PR narrative. The fact is, EI hasn’t got the pilots, cabin crew, ground staff or parking spots at DUB for a single XLR right now and likely not even this year. None of this affects the ‘future careers’ of existing staff - the airline is critically short of human resources in all departments and the word from lads and ladies that experience it every day is that this summer’s operation is already showing signs of severe vulnerabilities in capacity to merely deliver the service as it exists now.

The idea that the delayed delivery of more aircraft is somehow even a remote factor in the thought process of an employee group is frankly laughable - just ask any of the skippers that had to fly together in the last week alone because there wasn’t enough FO cover available.

EI are, of course, not alone in this situation and my own outfit aren’t doing much better in the resource department but any casual onlooker should be actively hoping that EI’s pilots extract as much as they absolutely can from IAG - reversing the trend of deteriorating T&Cs is only good for everyone in this industry.

Jack1985

I'll crack open the popcorn come June, when EI Ground Ops takes over handling for IAG carriers.

The only people sabotaging Aer Lingus at the moment are a management team so profit hungry, they have lost sight of what exactly is fundamental to the operation of an airline, it's people. They seem to have made every effort to diminish the product of EI over the last decade.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191537#Comment_122191537

There was a rush last winter to get guys ready for 330 and 321LR ops such was the lack of suitable crews. Also there is a large number of the senior captains retiring this and over the next 1-2 year from a previous glut of crew before training slowed down due to world events/industrial unrest.

The management team really have not looked at anything past the profit bottom line and such taking the eye off the long game is coming to bite them on the ass!

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191955#Comment_122191955

The EI product has indeed been diminished radically over the last decade, but I'd suggest that management didn't have a whole lot of choice in that – given the competition and how much of the market only cares about the price of the ticket. Short haul EI is now little different to Ryanair.

I've said here more than once that I'd happily pay a decent amount more for a Premium Economy service with a more comfortable seat, guaranteed overhead bag space, lounge access, and not having to listen to in flight advertising about perfumes. Unfortunately I think the only way I'm ever likely to get that out of Ireland is by flying to the Middle East.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192505#Comment_122192505

you are asking for lounge access with a premium economy seat / fare, I’m not aware of any airline offering this. Maybe your standards are too high and unrealistic which then means you are overly critical of EI because you are misinformed

Jack1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192505#Comment_122192505

Aer Lingus previous COO until '20 was directly behind removal of cleaning, reduced catering on Europe (one peak summer spent with reduced on board revenue due shortages), reduced catering in J (leads to many J pax not getting first preference meals, when paying thousands for some LH tickets), squeezed resourcing even further and demolished morale when using the Indo as a tool to p*ss off staff.

COO left subsequently after Doyle's arrival, but EI has continued these policies. It's chasing every last crumb for that bit more money, heard recently a Conc pax who chatted with a Senior and pointed out, ''they started with you guys, now the pilots and now us the customer.''

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122192760#Comment_122192760

It's definitely not common, but a handful of airlines do include lounge access on Premium Economy fares, including JAL and LATAM.

For what it's worth, my perspective on EI and the general downgrade in experience has nothing whatsoever to do with the (admittedly) pie-in-the-sky soft product that I'd love to see out of Ireland. It's based on my experiences as a passenger over the last twenty years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193312#Comment_122193312

okay, best of luck flying to the us (EI’s only long haul market) via Japan and South America, you will definitely need the lounge to refresh after your multiple flights

cson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193857#Comment_122193857

SAS give you lounge access on their long haul Plus fare (Premium Economy), just FYI as a pretty similar size of airline to EI. It's uncommon but not unheard of, EI are I suspect leaving a decent chunk of money on the table by not having a PE product, I'd bet plenty who are paying €600 for Y, would be happy enough to shell out double that at €1,200 for PE, but would ultimately baulk at the typical €2.5k+ J fares.

lintdrummer

I agree. EI should target the market that wants a more comfortable experience for a slightly higher price. You would have to imagine that a PE product would perform very well on London, Brussels, Amsterdam and a few others. Bucket and spades routes maybe not. Then again the business cabin on the A330 gets filled most mornings of the summer on the Malaga and Faro trips so there must be demand for it. I often hear people saying that they choose Aer Lingus over the competition because of the less stressful experience and that they happily pay extra for it. But Aer Lingus are doing their best to level the playing field.

EI have been cutting costs at every opportunity over the past decade. I recently flew to Malaga on the 330 and the hot breakfasts were gone by the time the cabin crew got to the 4th row of economy. A Rutter initiative: if you severely understock the food, there won't be any waste. But who in their right mind thinks that an early morning flight with 300 pax is going to be adequately served by 20 hot breakfasts? Cheesy Mister instead sir?

The cost cutting only benefits the management (bonuses) and the investors. The staff and the customers suffer.

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122195035#Comment_122195035

The problem with offering a slightly more premium service is management only want to do something on a shoestring budget.
I’ve heard it’s in the pipeline (premium economy that is) but progress is slow.

A glass of wine or beer with meals in economy has been rumored for years. Seemingly it will happen this year.. we will see.

Premium economy would mean complexity for various hard and soft product offerings.

In the eye of management complexity = cost.

It seems nobody wants to put their name to investment (cost increase) even though it might mean more return.

This type of risk obviously isn’t encouraged much

MICKEYG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122195035#Comment_122195035

The cost cutting has short term benefits which is what the mgt bonuses are based on.

In the long term they are destroying a great brand but will be long gone before the effects of that hit the accounts.

The recent AerClub fiasco is a great example of driving loyal customers away.

sherology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122195193#Comment_122195193

Semi-related:

https://simpleflying.com/aer-lingus-announces-terminal-6-new-york-jfk-airport-lounge-operations-starting-2026/

trellheim

EI pulling out from LGW and leaving Ba flying shamrock tails with BA flight numbers on the same route tells you all you want to know about EI.

donkey balls

Has the catering being brought back in house? Back in 2013 the EI lads were telling me that both catering and cleaning were to be farmed out.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122195289#Comment_122195289

Pulling out of LGW mean that EI were no longer funnelling pax/revenue toward Virgin.

trellheim

Virgin don't fly from Gatwick since before the pandemic or am I missing something

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196164#Comment_122196164

I think it was something to do with some clause around feed etc. from the time EI was sold ?!

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196419#Comment_122196419

Yup. It was part of the agreement around IAG buying Aer Lingus.

Wasn't aware of Virgin pulling out of LGW. I assumed it would be a big leisure market for them.

LimaRomeo990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197383#Comment_122197383

Virgin didnt return to LGW after the pandemic so theyve been gone years. All there ops have been consolidated to LHR

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198126#Comment_122198126

And Manchester.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122191534#Comment_122191534

because IAG’s expansion possibiiities are not limited to EI.

kevinandrew

EI-NSE made its second test flight today in Toulouse while EI-NSF had its first engine run yesterday.

After these are delivered there doesn’t appear to be any more A320neo on order for Aer Lingus.

Lockheed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199309#Comment_122199309

I believe that this will not be the case for long. EI fleet is the most overdue for renewal in the entire IAG group. Despite popular sentiment IAG are, in general, impressed with EI's performance and investment in areas such as fleet renewal is incoming.

Side note:

EI pulling out of LGW was, in all seriousness, one of the best decisions they've made in the short haul market in recent history. Dublin to London market still has not recovered to pre-pandemic levels and likely never will. With no Virgin feeder traffic it was an absolute waste of time flying there, especially with the pax cap being such a major issue.

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199595#Comment_122199595

But of a side topic but quick question why has the Dublin to London traffic not gone back to pre pandemic levels and why might it not ever do so?

Lockheed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199648#Comment_122199648

Nobody really knows. Same day return/1-nighter-trip traffic for the main part is seriously reduced since pre pandemic. Not to say they're gone completely, but the market to London in general has become a lot less predictable.

I would reckon that a reduction in frequency to LHR is also on the cards soon enough.

knobtasticus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199648#Comment_122199648

In-person meeting frequency hasn’t recovered since the pandemic and WFH is also now a lot more prevalent. Now that people are used to travelling less for work, it’s hard to encourage it again.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199595#Comment_122199595

I must be flying to and from a different Gatwick . Every plane I'm on is full. I've never once heard of feeder traffic being a thing since BA packed up most of the operation off to LHR