Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Jack1985

cson wrote: »

I do wonder what the market for these flights is as long as quarantine rules in the UK and the not insignificant fact of the US continuing to have its outright ban on inbound tourists.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-us-and-uk-in-talks-over-quarantine-free-air-bridge-between-london-and-new-york-12057663

3d4life

Jack1985 wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-us-and-uk-in-talks-over-quarantine-free-air-bridge-between-london-and-new-york-12057663

Difficult topic. Control at airports is federal and not state. Even now out of state transiting to NY by car an issue.

Trump might be delighted to dump a lot of spreaders in Coumo-land. So could yet happen.

adam88

Just a hypothetical question but if IAG wanted to is there anything stopping them closing down Aer Lingus and transferring everything over to one of the other airline.
Just for a moment imagine they consider Ireland and the Irish market to be a major drain on resources. Are they contracted to maintain a presence in Ireland. Pure hypothetical question

MrMusician18

Jack1985 wrote: »

It would make no strategical sense to do that, for it to have a financial impact you would be offloading the vast majority of the fleet and in a post COVID recovery the company would then find itself in a market where globally aircraft are re-entering service and leases go up, despite being the the best airline in the group for ROIC.

If it made sense it would be have been done already unfortunately.

It makes no strategic sense to burn cash with no end in sight either

Surely the best thing to do for long term survival is to unwind financial exposure as quickly and orderly as possible while a cash buffer still exists to give room for maneuver.

Suppressed demand could last for years or with luck demand could be back again in 6 months. We don't know and the airlines don't know. Holding out for the strategic advantage on the upswing will be a fools errand as many airlines sadly will go to the wall waiting for the corner to be turned.

Cork_Guest

To be fair, it’d be the least we deserve after this government has effectively ignored aviation for the last 6 months, no updated green list even though our case per capita are now above most places they’re not allowing travel to, add in absolutely no financial help yet the U.K. gave Aer Lingus £350 million and RyanAir £650 million out of THEIR Covid support fund! That’s just embarrassing! Seemingly the new normal doesn’t include flying anywhere or drinking any pints.....

goingnowhere

adam88 wrote: »

Just a hypothetical question but if IAG wanted to is there anything stopping them closing down Aer Lingus and transferring everything over to one of the other airline.
Just for a moment imagine they consider Ireland and the Irish market to be a major drain on resources. Are they contracted to maintain a presence in Ireland. Pure hypothetical question

Nothing

The IAG level ops in Vienna have already been shutdown.

The problem child for IAG is BA, too much premium focus and legacy staffing issues.

BA carried approx 4 times what EI did last year but has 10 times the staff, BA 254 aircraft EI 56, but there is a lot lots more in wide bodies which are more expensive to lease/finance.

Jack1985

3d4life wrote: »

Difficult topic. Control at airports is federal and not state...

It's bilateral discussion at a federal level. There was no where in that aritcle that mentioned state approval.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It makes no strategic sense to burn cash with no end in sight either

Surely the best thing to do for long term survival is to unwind financial exposure as quickly and orderly as possible while a cash buffer still exists to give room for maneuver.

Suppressed demand could last for years or with luck demand could be back again in 6 months. We don't know and the airlines don't know. Holding out for the strategic advantage on the upswing will be a fools errand as many airlines sadly will go to the wall waiting for the corner to be turned.

Afraid not, it's not as simple to just cancel leases there are financial penalties and other fixed costs for the business that can’t be offloaded. The plan involves long-term storage of some aircraft which is already in effect. Aer Lingus might be haemorrhaging cash but it's the carrier within the group that is doing the least of it with the right airframes for a recovery.

I don’t envisage suppressed demand lasting years; recovery will come in 2021 - It's simply not possible for economies to remain in the current status without massive fallout for all stakeholders.

For 2019 level traffic demand to return might not occur till post 2024 possibly.

Cork_Guest wrote: »

...yet the U.K. gave Aer Lingus £350 million and RyanAir £650 million out of THEIR Covid support fund! That’s just embarrassing! Seemingly the new normal doesn’t include flying anywhere or drinking any pints.....

Just to clarify BA got money from the British Gov, Aer Lingus have recieved nothing other than TWSS.

smurfjed

Just to clarify BA got money from the British Gov, Aer Lingus have recieved nothing other than TWSS.

Thanks for the clarification, I was wondering when EI got €350m.

joeysoap

Will Brexit impact on this.?

cson

Jack1985 wrote: »

It's bilateral discussion at a federal level. There was no where in that aritcle that mentioned state approval.

States in the US have some autonomy when it comes to COVID approaches, the Tristate area has what's effectively a red list of States which it requires mandatory quarantine. You'd likely be able to get in, but you can forget about any touristing with those restrictions in place if you want to abide by the law, to what extent the law is enforced is another matter altogether.

Unfortunately US travel restrictions have, and will continue to have, a huge knock on impact for EI who are somewhat uniquely exposed to it (FI probably as well).

Jack1985

cson wrote: »

States in the US have some autonomy when it comes to COVID approaches, the Tristate area has what's effectively a red list of States which it requires mandatory quarantine. You'd likely be able to get in, but you can forget about any touristing with those restrictions in place if you want to abide by the law, to what extent the law is enforced is another matter altogether.

It's a federal discussion as its in relation to USCBP requirments, which differs from domestic travel in the United States.

joeysoap wrote: »

Will Brexit impact on this.?

Aer Lingus have a registered company in the UK, it would be a matter of requesting an AOC for that unit - If OpenSkies were to be compromised.

cson

Jack1985 wrote: »

It's a federal discussion as its in relation to USCBP requirments, which differs from domestic travel in the United States.

Correct in that you'll be able to land in the US if that goes through, but you'd need the State the airport is in to get on board with not requiring mandatory quarantine. Which I think would be a stretch given the likes of NY are requiring it for 30 odd States right now, that'd be a very tough sell to the US public.

Jack1985

Shocking behaviour from IAG, not surprising in the slightest however considering the financial pain impacted on the majority of the group’s employees. You really can't get more out of touch than this, the same organisation in receipt of millions from respective Governments.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/walsh-set-to-face-anger-over-bonus-g25bwzvfh

blackwhite

Jack1985 wrote: »

Shocking behaviour from IAG, not surprising in the slightest however considering the financial pain impacted on the majority of the group’s employees. You really can't get more out of touch than this, the same organisation in receipt of millions from respective Governments.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/walsh-set-to-face-anger-over-bonus-g25bwzvfh

It's shoddy reporting by the Times trying to imply they're paying a bonus right now - nothing more than that.

A bonus related to 2019 results, and was paid in March before the seriousness of the situation was evident. It's only news now because the AGM was delayed due to Covid.

All listed companies have the advisory shareholder vote on executive pay - IMO the vote is stupid in it's current form, as it is a vote to approve payments that have already been made. It would be much more useful to have a shareholder vote on the conditions for the future remuneration structure.

Jack1985

blackwhite wrote: »

It's shoddy reporting by the Times trying to imply they're paying a bonus right now - nothing more than that.

A bonus related to 2019 results, and was paid in March before the seriousness of the situation was evident. It's only news now because the AGM was delayed due to Covid.

All listed companies have the advisory shareholder vote on executive pay - IMO the vote is stupid in it's current form, as it is a vote to approve payments that have already been made. It would be much more useful to have a shareholder vote on the conditions for the future remuneration structure.

I don't agree at all. ISS holds the view that it is, ''inappropriate as the aviation industry struggles through its worst ever crisis'' and I wholly support it.

Just for comparison in EI, workers are down now in some instances by 70%. Across the IAG Group wages have been slashed. Payments for 2019 for performance and or hourly increases have been forgone by employees - Execs should be respecting this too.

It is simply out of touch and not acceptable that he should receive a bonus of over £800,000 when he has been lambasting workers on airwaves for months especially in BA that they were fighting for survival.

His total compensation with regard to previous years is higher than £3.03m simply a more prudent approach is warranted.

blackwhite

Jack1985 wrote: »

I don't agree at all. ISS holds the view that it is, ''inappropriate as the aviation industry struggles through its worst ever crisis'' and I wholly support it.

Just for comparison in EI, workers are down now in some instances by 70%. Across the IAG Group wages have been slashed. Payments for 2019 for performance and or hourly increases have been forgone by employees - Execs should be respecting this too.

It is simply out of touch and not acceptable that he should receive a bonus of over £800,000 when he has been lambasting workers on airwaves for months especially in BA that they were fighting for survival.

His total compensation with regard to previous years is higher than £3.03m simply a more prudent approach is warranted.

He received it back in March - before this blew up.

I'd fully agree with a vote to suspend any bonuses for 2020, and for 2021 as well - but getting worked up over the 2019 bonus, which was paid before the crisis hit, is nothing more than tilting at windmills.

Jack1985

blackwhite wrote: »

He received it back in March - before this blew up.

I'd fully agree with a vote to suspend any bonuses for 2020, and for 2021 as well - but getting worked up over the 2019 bonus, which was paid before the crisis hit, is nothing more than tilting at windmills.

I recognise you have now pointed out twice his 2019 bonus was paid before the crisis.

The payment was made in early March as IAG were planning groundings of carriers in the group initially intra-Europe.

Many employees within IAG have forgone 2019 bonuses due for payment in 2020. Companies not as severely impacted have cancelled previous pay-outs or deferred them altogether.

If he had any self-respect after his media circus in the UK that BA was on the brink, he might then consider handing it back. IAG is in receipt of over €1.5bn from the British and Spanish Governments.

The group organisation is promoting an ‘in this together’ mantra, they’ve refused to give comments to the media today on this – Everyone knows how crap this looks and someone who doesn't need's their head examined.

basill

Bear in mind that WW was meant to be long gone. It was reported in the media that he took a 30% pay cut when he stayed on. Whereas many of his staff in EI are on 30% of not a lot. No doubt WW will have negotiated a bonus for "saving" the day. This will show up in next years annual report. If the EI mgt had taken as large a cut as the general staff then I would have expected a mass exodus but I am not aware of anyone senior leaving. Perhaps there are no other jobs or perhaps they are incentivised to stay? Time will tell.

Tenger

blackwhite wrote: »

He received it back in March - before this blew up.
.............

The Covid-19 pandemic was causing an impact before March. I had a trip to HK planned for early February so I was following the situation from the start of January.

Before March the impact on global aviation was very clear. SARS had been a warning to aviation and it was already evident that this would be much much worse.*
Cathay were grounded, Flight bans were in place for China, BA and Iberia had already operated rescue/evacuation flights for citizens into Wuhan.
BA had been inundated with flight rebooking, IAG airlines were already seeing a plummet in traffic in/out of Spain/Italy/Hong Kong/China etc. ITV were seeing revenue dry up as the cruise lines and travel agencies pulled advertising.
The Qantas CEO (an Irishman, Alan Joyce) gave up the rest of his 2020 salary the 1st week of March.

Many in Ireland only became aware of it is mid/late February. Some were even more unaware than that.


*I have to admit that I was having a chat with an aer lingus mate in early March. He estimated that the airlines wouldn’t recover until next summer. I thought that he was being a bit dramatic, I guessed that the winter season would see things almost back to normal. How wrong I was.

Avoation1091

Tenger wrote: »

The Covid-19 pandemic was causing an impact before March. I had a trip to HK planned for early February so I was following the situation from the start of January.

Before March the impact on global aviation was very clear. SARS had been a warning to aviation and it was already evident that this would be much much worse.*
Cathay were grounded, Flight bans were in place for China, BA and Iberia had already operated rescue/evacuation flights for citizens into Wuhan.
BA had been inundated with flight rebooking, IAG airlines were already seeing a plummet in traffic in/out of Spain/Italy/Hong Kong/China etc. ITV were seeing revenue dry up as the cruise lines and travel agencies pulled advertising.
The Qantas CEO (an Irishman, Alan Joyce) gave up the rest of his 2020 salary the 1st week of March.

Many in Ireland only became aware of it is mid/late February. Some were even more unaware than that.


*I have to admit that I was having a chat with an aer lingus mate in early March. He estimated that the airlines wouldn’t recover until next summer. I thought that he was being a bit dramatic, I guessed that the winter season would see things almost back to normal. How wrong I was.

Just re your last bit-thought the same to be honest. I thought the Ski season would be ok but not now. I also very stupidly thought i was getting to BOS this Sept but currently awaiting a refund from EI.

sandbelter

As you all know that EI applied to join the JBA in late 2018. It's been a very slow process but it looks as if the process is about to conclude. On August 13th, DOT announced it was at notice issuance stage:

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2008-0252-3444

I'd draw your attention to the following comment in the notice:

The Department notes that the UK Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) has market tested certain remedies in response to its investigation of the Existing Joint Business involving many of the same airlines. The Department is coordinating with the CMA as that authority reviews and seeks to address potential competition concerns regarding transatlantic competition.0

That doesn't look straightforward.

California Dreamer

Jack1985 wrote: »

If he had any self-respect after his media circus in the UK that BA was on the brink, he might then consider handing it back. IAG is in receipt of over €1.5bn from the British and Spanish Governments.

Senior executive bonuses have always been a bone of contention no matter what company. Just look at banking bonuses at the height of the crash. Should any of them forgo or give back their bonus it will only be tokenism and be collected elsewhere. Those with little always suffer the most compared to those with the most.

Davy

What is the reason St Dallan EI-EIN / A333 is doing Dub-LHR so often?


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-ein

Locker10a

Davy wrote: »

What is the reason St Dallan EI-EIN / A333 is doing Dub-LHR so often?


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-ein

I would imagine to maintain crew recency

HTCOne

Probably also a lot of freight going via LHR now on BA that used to go to North America on EI metal, there’s only two A330s a day crossing the pond now instead of the planned 14/15.

goingnowhere

Its freight

There have been occasional extra freight only ops to US

basill

Davy wrote: »

What is the reason St Dallan EI-EIN / A333 is doing Dub-LHR so often?


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-ein

Don't quote me as I am hardly flying myself but the last I heard it was more to do with flight cycles/ETOPS requirements than crew currency. All the ETOPS aircraft (assuming they are current for ETOPS) are signed off on each leg for ETOPS by an engineer regardless of whether they are in LHR, Malaga, USA or Timbuktu. This would be applicable to the 321Neos as well as the 330s.



The crew currency is a growing issue on both the short and long haul fleets. Crews that are due to expire are being rostered short recency sims for the required take offs and landings. The usual 6 monthly sim visits reset the 90 day expiries for take off and landings but with so few flights some crews will inevitably expire and have to visit the sim. There were plans for touch and goes in an aircraft (like base training) at one stage but I am not sure if these have actually eventuated as yet.


Time will tell when the winter schedule comes out as to what the latest plan is.

Nibs05

I see Aer Lingus employees took another massive hit in wages this week, paid 3 for days Work in a fortnight and nothing else. Yet WW walks away with millions.

California Dreamer

Nibs05 wrote: »

I see Aer Lingus employees took another massive hit in wages this week, paid 3 for days Work in a fortnight and nothing else. Yet WW walks away with millions.

On the one hand you can see the anger by some people but who is more important to running of a company, the CEO or the cabin crew selling a can of coke?

We obviously don't know but would IAG be in a worse position if WW had not been there to steer the ship and make the very difficult decisions. Lets ground the A380s, lets scrap the 747 fleet, lets ground level, lets lay off workers and slash wages. I am no WW fan but I feel a lesser person might be more lax in their approach to what had to be done to ensure survival.

On the other hand the wages he got may have been well deserved.

kona

California Dreamer wrote: »

On the one hand you can see the anger by some people but who is more important to running of a company, the CEO or the cabin crew selling a can of coke?

We obviously don't know but would IAG be in a worse position if WW had not been there to steer the ship and make the very difficult decisions. Lets ground the A380s, lets scrap the 747 fleet, lets ground level, lets lay off workers and slash wages. I am no WW fan but I feel a lesser person might be more lax in their approach to what had to be done to ensure survival.

On the other hand the wages he got may have been well deserved.

Most staff couldnt give a rats about what ww got, what they do care about is how the **** they are going to support a family on in some cases less than what youd get on the scratch.