Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

goingnowhere

Qprmeath wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aer-lingus-offered-government-a-plane-to-save-millions-on-military-jet-bhjbgkt0n
EI are supposedly bringing Irish troops to Lebanon in the near future.

Thats not what the article says

Aer Lingus suggested it could convert a A330-200 into a freighter and provide it under a wet lease arrangement. Aer Lingus would maintain and fly the jet.

Aer Lingus has a lot of idle A330-200's which it owns outright and is on the hunt for any way to generate cash flow out of them.

the matter had not proceeded. Other sources have said that the state had no intention of purchasing such an aircraft for the military, despite eagerness within the defence forces.

HTCOne

Whenever TATL flying does resume, the NEOs will be a life saver for them. YYZ, EWR, BOS, ORD, JFK, IAD, PHL, BDL can all be served by them, rebuilding demand and allowing 330s to return from storage as and when required.

SFO is safe, as are the above LR capable routes I would think, possibly MCO as the House of Mouse will always be popular. LAX and SEA are probably less certain, MIA and MSP are already gone.

Due the NEOs, EI will have far lower operating costs and are probably far better placed for coping with initial weaker demand than pretty much anyone else on the Atlantic, they just need to survive that long. Things are not all doom and gloom, at least in comparison to many others.

EchoIndia

goingnowhere wrote: »

Thats not what the article says

Aer Lingus suggested it could convert a A330-200 into a freighter and provide it under a wet lease arrangement. Aer Lingus would maintain and fly the jet.

Aer Lingus has a lot of idle A330-200's which it owns outright and is on the hunt for any way to generate cash flow out of them.

There is no A330-200 freighter conversion option so such an aircraft could only really function as a belly cargo freighter.

HTCOne

EchoIndia wrote: »

There is no A330-200 freighter conversion option so such an aircraft could only really function as a belly cargo freighter.

There is a P2F 330-300 programme, which ASL operate the first of (I believe it was in DUB in recent days?), so the grunt work of any conversion certification programme has been done.

EchoIndia

HTCOne wrote: »

There is a P2F 330-300 programme, which ASL operate the first of (I believe it was in DUB in recent days?), so the grunt work of any conversion certification programme has been done.

I'm aware of that but there would need to be a programme of such conversions, not a one-off.

HTCOne

EchoIndia wrote: »

I'm aware of that but there would need to be a programme of such conversions, not a one-off.

I'm by no means an expert on such programmes so please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect, but given the general and MX type ratings are identical for the A332 and A333 (and A342 and A343, can't remember if the A345 and A346 are on the same MX rating), and all the plumbing, wiring etc is identical between the A332 and A333, I'd have thought the same certification work can almost all be used again. Most such work is related to the strengthened floor, fire suppression and the job of actually cutting the loading door into the fuselage (moving wiring, hydraulics etc).

Appreciate any education from people who actually know what they're talking about in advance.

L1011

I believe there is actually an STC for the A332, just nobody has bothered yet

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/freighter/a330p2f.html#modern

EchoIndia

HTCOne wrote: »

Appreciate any education from people who actually know what they're talking about in advance.

Nor am I an expert so also happy to be enlightened! I read that American has retired its entire A330-200 and -300 fleets so these are amongst plenty of available candidates these days.

kona

The 200 is significantly shorter between d1 and d2, there would be cog considerations and even the structural work fitting the door would be much biggger given the short distances between the doors and the cargo door.
There is a number of coms antenna in that area too which would need to be relocated.
The location of the pitots and aoa are different on the 200s too. Its not really a copy and paste exercise.
The 330 family are also a bit bogey with regards to the landing gear, the nose requires serious mods to level the aircraft in a cargo config for loading.

In the context of aer lingus and a deal with the army Id imagine there would be seats removed and/or gear just stowed on seats like omni do for the US.

Any sort of heavy equipment would require a specialist oversize aircraft id imagine which a 330 in any shape wouldnt handle.

As a longer term plan to broaded their companies business, it could be a good idea, the 200 series are pretty worthless apart from the 2 cf6 engines and with amazon expanding etc it could provided some diversity.

billy few mates

There is an STC for P2F conversion on the A330-200

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2019-05-23/freighter-conversion-market-totaled-nearly-1b-2018-iba

It might be a niche market to get into for an organisation with a surplus of airframes, adequate facilities and a highly skilled workforce already in place.

Conflats

L1011 wrote:

I believe there is actually an STC for the A332, just nobody has bothered yet

Egyptair cargo have 3 a330-200 p2fs

kona

billy few mates wrote: »

There is an STC for P2F conversion on the A330-200

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2019-05-23/freighter-conversion-market-totaled-nearly-1b-2018-iba

It might be a niche market to get into for an organisation with a surplus of airframes, adequate facilities and a highly skilled workforce already in place.

It certainly could be a good earner if they had the investment needed, apparently the freighter conversions have waiting lists!
However with the mods involved, which are absolutely massive, i cant see aer lingus looking at it seriously for a few 200s, cheaper to scrap em and sell the engines.

billy few mates

kona wrote: »

It certainly could be a good earner if they had the investment needed, apparently the freighter conversions have waiting lists!
However with the mods involved, which are absolutely massive, i cant see aer lingus looking at it seriously for a few 200s, cheaper to scrap em and sell the engines.

The reason there are such long waiting lists for conversion slots are because there are so few companies doing them.
There's a lot of work in them alright but it's not beyond the scope of the highly trained and highly skilled staff they already have. Most companies wouldn't get involved in conversion because they're more labour intensive rather than difficult or complicated but if there's not a lot else going on in the industry they could at least consider it.

Avoation1091

Does anyone know if there will be any repaints done to the fleet this winter? Or will they hold off incase of restrictions

kona

billy few mates wrote: »

The reason there are such long waiting lists for conversion slots are because there are so few companies doing them.
There's a lot of work in them alright but it's not beyond the scope of the highly trained and highly skilled staff they already have. Most companies wouldn't get involved in conversion because they're more labour intensive rather than difficult or complicated but if there's not a lot else going on in the industry they could at least consider it.

Its no doubt within the abilities of the staff, however its not within the current scope of the aer lingus 145 approval if the iaa website is accurate.
Absoloutley massive modifications involved which id say is why theres only a small amount of companies offering it, experience is everything with this type of work..
It would be a incredible descision if they did indeed decided to branch out into this work and as you say the rewards are there and the business certainly is.

Cravens

Meanwhile, it appears EI-DEA and EI-DEB are now leaving the fleet to begin a new life in America with Allegiant. Sorry if this has already been posted.

http://jethros.org.uk/previous/previous_updates.htm

kevinandrew

Avoation1091 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there will be any repaints done to the fleet this winter? Or will they hold off incase of restrictions

No idea but they don't tend to start repaints until January in normal times and a lot could change between now and then.

I guess repaint could be considered a vital aspect of aircraft maintenance so those that require it will get done either way.

billy few mates

kevinandrew wrote: »

No idea but they don't tend to start repaints until January in normal times and a lot could change between now and then.

I guess repaint could be considered a vital aspect of aircraft maintenance so those that require it will get done either way.

Would they not have all been recently painted since the new livery came out...?

Cookiemunster

billy few mates wrote: »

Would they not have all been recently painted since the new livery came out...?

No. Most of the fleet is still in the old livery. There's a thread on here with a list of the repainted aircraft.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057981271/4/#post112751853

OU812

Avoation1091 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there will be any repaints done to the fleet this winter? Or will they hold off incase of restrictions

Would be the ideal time to get the entire fleet done as the majority has downtime, but cost is most likely stopping them as they need to preserve cash

Avoation1091

OU812 wrote: »

Would be the ideal time to get the entire fleet done as the majority has downtime, but cost is most likely stopping them as they need to preserve cash

True-cash preserve its whats needed at the moment. Repaint is probably last on there list now

HTCOne

Especially if they don't know how many will need to go into storage and when. Probably better off storing anything coming up to a heavy C or D check and just run the ones with more green time.

Come to think of it the MROs are going to be swamped when this is all over.....hopefully.

john boye

I'd imagine we won't see any repaints for a long time. I know they usually do them in winter but They could have repainted any of the green ones while they were parked over the last few months and didn't so I can't see them starting again anytime soon.

kevinandrew

Aer Lingus timed the rebrand to coincide with the closest timeframe that most of their aircraft were due scheduled repaints for maintenance purposes, this saved on costs as they weren't just repainting them for the sake of a new livery but as part of the natural cycle.

Paint is essentially a protective coating that erodes over time, usually around 8 years, so with that in mind some repaints may still go ahead for maintenance reasons rather than simply just for aesthetics.

On the other hand, Aegean seems to have completely suspended its entire rebrand. They announced a new brand and livery to much fanfare just before the pandemic took hold but never actually implemented any of it apart from a few new delivery A320neos, they didn't even bother changing their website or advertising to the new look yet. Either it was poor planning by Aegean or they slammed on the breaks to save immediate costs.

HTCOne

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus timed the rebrand to coincide with the closest timeframe that most of their aircraft were due scheduled repaints for maintenance purposes, this saved on costs as they weren't just repainting them for the sake of a new livery but as part of the natural cycle.

Paint is essentially a protective coating that erodes over time, usually around 8 years, so with that in mind some repaints may still go ahead for maintenance reasons rather than simply just for aesthetics.

On the other hand, Aegean seems to have completely suspended its entire rebrand. They announced a new brand and livery to much fanfare just before the pandemic took hold but never actually implemented any of it apart from a few new delivery A320neos, they didn't even bother changing their website or advertising to the new look yet. Either it was poor planning by Aegean or they slammed on the breaks to save immediate costs.

The protective element of the paint wears off in the timeframe you mention, but darker colours fade over about 4 years. Just look at some of the green EI jets. When the coat was new, they look fantastic, after a few years, less so. One of the reasons the " Euro white" schemes have become so popular is that white doesn't fade to the same extent. Sure it loses the shine, but it isn't as obvious. You don't need to repaint as frequently, or at most you repaint the vertical stab and leave the rest. So instead of repainting every 4 years, you do it ever 6 or 8 years. Repainting a 747 is a 7 figure sum, low 6 figures for a 320 or 737 sized frame. Imagine the savings across a 700 or 800 odd fleet like United or Delta.

kona

john boye wrote: »

I'd imagine we won't see any repaints for a long time. I know they usually do them in winter but They could have repainted any of the green ones while they were parked over the last few months and didn't so I can't see them starting again anytime soon.

Theres 1000s of staff on half hours, a ****ing repaint is far far down the list.

kona

HTCOne wrote: »

The protective element of the paint wears off in the timeframe you mention, but darker colours fade over about 4 years. Just look at some of the green EI jets. When the coat was new, they look fantastic, after a few years, less so. One of the reasons the " Euro white" schemes have become so popular is that white doesn't fade to the same extent. Sure it loses the shine, but it isn't as obvious. You don't need to repaint as frequently, or at most you repaint the vertical stab and leave the rest. So instead of repainting every 4 years, you do it ever 6 or 8 years. Repainting a 747 is a 7 figure sum, low 6 figures for a 320 or 737 sized frame. Imagine the savings across a 700 or 800 odd fleet like United or Delta.

Depends on the paint job, ive seen aircraft a week out of paint a week with paint lifting and riverash! Its the same as painting cars, you get what you pay for!

HTCOne

kona wrote: »

Depends on the paint job, ive seen aircraft a week out of paint a week with paint lifting and riverash! Its the same as painting cars, you get what you pay for!

Fair point, but I'll credit the boys and girls in Hangar 3 in DUB and the folks in Shannon as top notch!

john boye

kona wrote: »

Theres 1000s of staff on half hours, a ****ing repaint is far far down the list.

That's pretty much what I was referring to.

billy few mates

kona wrote: »

Theres 1000s of staff on half hours, a ****ing repaint is far far down the list.

If they're due a repaint as part of the maintenance program then you don't really have a choice.
It's often a return condition in the lease agreement that an aircraft is returned painted all white, in cases where a repaint falls due it might make more sense to paint them white until they decide the long-term plan for the aircraft. It should be easy enough to add the livery markings afterwards if they decide they're going to keep them in service.