Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733094#Comment_121733094

It's a month or two since I cycled that way, but if iirc there aren't wands either way at the hotel. Going down the street the first wands are past that junction I think. And going up the hill, they also don't start until after Quinsborough Road. I don't tend to drive the section between Florence Road and Quinsborough Road, but to and from the south bound side, it's vehicles illegally parked/ stopping busses/ cars blocking the road turning right onto main street waiting for a gap that cause issues. The elephant in the main street traffic room is Colaiste Raithin moving and the mayhem at Ravenswell Road!

buffalo

https://dublininquirer.com/2024/02/06/outside-lusk-road-changes-and-a-new-cycle-lane-trigger-debate-around-safety-and-space/

At the protest, Thomas Murphy said it’s not a particularly busy stretch for cyclists. “I’ve been here since half nine, and I haven’t seen one.”

From about 20 metres away came the voice of Dermot Bentley. “There’s one,” he bellowed.

“How’d you like your new lane?” he said to the man cycling along in a hi-vis jacket.

“It’s great,” the man replied, and continued on.

cletus

So, for those of you familiar with the road, what's the actual story? Is the cycle lane too wide? was it fine before (as suggested by the representative from the Lusk cycling club? Is it another stretch of cycle lane that starts nowhere and ends nowhere?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733094#Comment_121733094

It is better than it was since the wands went down, now the illegal parking is only there for half the stretch of main street. They are giving out because everyone ond their mother parked up on the kerb for "just two minutes", except it wasn't, it was routinely the delivery drivers parked for 15 minute stretches while they had tea in the Pizza Place, or local tradesman who would park their all day (god help you if you even pointed out the spaces across the road, these athletically gifted people could not be expected to either carry their stuff over, or after unloading, move their van to a parking spot). You would routinely have to merge into the traffic lane to move up the street which was OK for me but not for some young kid or a less confident adult. Last tiem I was there, people were still parked on the kerb, and still routinely swerved in on top of you at Bank of Ireland. John Brady maybe liked locally but they are all a bunch of muppets to be honest, any of them who haven't realised the wands are not the issue are wilfully ignorant. Traffic should be one way for most of main street, with a counter flow bus and cycle lane.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733211#Comment_121733211

It's ridiculous. Bray has been a disaster in almost every respect for years and years. Any attempts to improve it for the better of everyone is always going to a) losing some things you were used to and b) take a bit of time to bed in. But as usual in Ireland, any attempt to change anything at all brings out the hand wringers. God love any poor country engineer having to attend a 'consultation' meeting.

Bray literally could not get any worse, so anyone complaining about changes can take a long jump off a short pier.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733676#Comment_121733676

they mention the R132, which is not really 'on the outskirts of lusk'; it's the old belfast road. i've cycled it plenty of times. north of blakes cross, it's fine, but blakes cross and south of there is not somewhere i'd suggest a novice cyclist would cycle. i would not cycle that stretch at night.

Economics101

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eamon-ryan-says-cycling-will-become-most-common-way-to-travel-in-ireland/a519216893.html

Ryan's statement is total nonsense (especially if you look at kms travelled as opposed to number of journeys).

Also interesting picture: two of the three pictured (incl Ryan) are on the pedestrian rather than the cycle path. And of course not a helmet or a hi-viz jacket between them. 😁

magicbastarder

not sure if serious...

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734211#Comment_121734211

Apart from everything I think that in reality Cycling is the Least common way to travel in Ireland....

Statements like spending €1 Billion on active travel seems to enrage a lot of people, and where bits of infra is built the high levels of protests in places like Lusk, Dún Laoghaire, Bray and Deansgrange prove that locals don't share in Ryan's pipe dream...

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734233#Comment_121734233

Must. Not. Bite.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734211#Comment_121734211

It's never really going to match on km's is it though, when you're including PT as well as private vehicles? Number of journeys is a relevant measure imo.

magicbastarder

one reaction i will have is that ryan's statement was not attempting to state fact on the current situation, but was intended as a prediction or promise. saying he's incorrect by referring to things as they are is not a way to contradict him.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734609#Comment_121734609

Number of journeys is most certainly a nonsense measure, especially if like Ryan you are interested in CO2 emissions. On your basis, a cycle ride from Blackrock to Booterstown is the same a s trip from Blackrock to the sirport. Never mind a trip to West Cork for the holidays!.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735176#Comment_121735176

It is a nonsense measure but when you're trying to change a mindset you'll try and keep the measures easy to tally.

It is easier for someone to think that they made four our of five journeys that day by bike rather than calculate the total distance, etc.

Stark

Most journeys are short journeys. You're going to do a trip like Blackrock to Booterstown a lot more often than a trip to West Cork.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735227#Comment_121735227

Well, this isn't just making the numbers easy to tally, it takes us for idiots.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735342#Comment_121735342

I've met loads of people in my lifetime and yes, lots of them are idiots!

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735264#Comment_121735264

Yeah, I actually cover more ground by bike than any other means, but it's because of a daily accumulation of multiple short, usually sub-10km, trips, which added up come to a fair few thousands of km annually.

Cycling is a common means of travel in Dublin, as opposed to Ireland, especially in the city centre. There is a lot of potential in other cities and towns, though I'm not sure about it becoming more common than walking in cities and towns, or buses.

I think motorcycling might be less common in Ireland than cycling? Especially since e-bikes are consuming the lighter motorcycle market.

tomasrojo

Part of what gets cycling to such a high modal share in cities in the Netherlands is the way cycling combines with public transport. Which is definitely an area with potential for growth here.

Cetyl Palmitate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121736247#Comment_121736247

Adding an extra bike storage carriage would be a help. The limited bike spaces in current services are often occupied regardless of whether you booked or not.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737215#Comment_121737215

Supposedly IR new trains will have alot more space but as the manager of the CSOs in my region said, if they just stripped out the cafes that will never open and left them for bikes that would be a large number of trains with decent storage overnight.

lawrencesummers

I would consider myself pro-cyclist.

But Eamon is deluded. Completely deluded and his public speeches just make him seem far more detached from reality everyday and i think it does more harm than good.

My commute to work. A 15 minute drive 14km is not feasible by bike due to the roads used. Some of which have been upgraded in the last few years with work still ongoing and no cycle lanes added to any of them.

To go by bike on a route that is mixed paths, roads and limited cycle lanes would take over 1 hour and its 20km. Some people do cycle that live closer and safe bike parking is provided. Working a 12 hour day i cant make that a 14 hour day and factoring in that most of the year its dark on the way in and out from work there is a serious safety concern.

My kids schools, one is 2.4km away and the other 6km away up a hill with a gradient of 9%. Geographically not feasible.

Ive got a relatively short commute to work a safe place to park a bike, on site showers as well and cycling isnt an option. Lots of people dont have any of these.

By all means build more infrastructure, multistory safe bike parking is very much needed, more cycle lanes needed, but you cant change where people live or where they work and you just come across as bat shti crazy when you talk a different game.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737833#Comment_121737833

Only a small number (10) of Intercity trains have the catering facilities you mention, and they operate mostly Dublin-Cork. So no solution there. The 41 new Intercity carriages however, will have significantly better bicycle accommodation.

As for stripping out catering facilities, Irish Rail's failure to restore them following Covid, is a big failure on their part, as you will never get people out of cars without making train travel really attractive.

As it is, passenger space of often overcrowded and each bike space displaces about 2 passenger seats. Cyclists are under-paying for the use of facilities, if you look at the opportunity cost of lost passenger seats. I know I will be flamed for saying this. 🚊

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737891#Comment_121737891

I don't fully follow your logic here.

You say that you can't cycle your 14km route to work because there are no cycle facilities (a very reasonable statement). But you finish by saying that you can't change where people live or where they work...could it be the case that if you had good cycle facilities directly to your work, that you would consider cycling to work?

And in terms of gradient, I know you might not allow your children to use them (and that's OK) but I'd assume some people will allow their kids to go to schools on that school route you describe by e-scooter. I say this because my next door neighbour does. It's pretty much exactly what you're describing, 10% gradient, one kid at 2.5km distance. They beat me every time whether I'm in car or on bike! No cycle facilities though: they just brazen it out on the road!

Eamonn Ryan is a very bad communicator for sure, no question, but I don't follow the logic of your argument here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. But it seems to me like investment in dedicated facilities could actually potentially transform the way your family travels, no?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738041#Comment_121738041

Not at all (in regards the flaming), the way they set them up is odd, I have been over in France quite a bit, the way they are set up for two bikes on an IR carriage would hold 5 in France, they are set up in the most impractical manner. Front wheel hangers in a line against the top of the carrriage would allow a lot more.

The food is being trialled again (AFAIK) but realistically, it wasn't Covid that got rid of the food. It is contracted out, the previous contractors were paying young people minimum wage to go from Wexford to Dublin, no pay for two hours as they wait for the turnaround and then 2 hours pay back. It simply wasn't feasible, most left when they realised they could get a full time job with no moving and get paid for every hour you were there. Regular commuters already brought Thermos as the coffee/Tea was not great and overpriced so the only real business was OAP on a freepass and once in a blue moon travellers. Personally, I don't think it is worth the hassle bringing it back on most routes. Maybe Dublin - Cork/Limerick but that is about it. Even the coffee shops in rain stations went into recievership a year ago. It is just not a viable business option and not something I routinely saw on the continent with far longer joourneys.

I think the new IC carriages will have 8 spaces instead of 2, not sure on the layout.

As for lost passenger seats, depends on the route as well, not sure how the South West trains fare as I haven't been that way in a year but the other lines only truly get close to full once they are near Dublin, so I don't think it is as big a hit as people think it is.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735176#Comment_121735176

Most car journeys are short - sub 2km iirc. And petrol and diesel vehicles are at their most inefficient for such journeys.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738101#Comment_121738101

For a number of reasons i cant cycle to work, im making the point that I have a lot of things that would suit cycling over the average person (i like cycling, im relatively fit and don't need to carry items like laptops or files, have safe bike parking, have showers on site) but it still doesnt make sense for me to cycle because Of the dangerous infrastructure, the length of the journey and the hours I work, weather and darkness are also factors.

So my 14km commute is probably below the average work commute and I have all these things going for me yet it wont work, so how is it ever going to suit people that dont have all this going for them, and Ryan for all his intentions cant change many of them.

There is one kid that brings a bike to school, and one kid that shares an Escooter with his mother. The cyclist always pushes his bike up the hill and the child is sharing an E scooter with an adult. Its the going home down an almost 1km bendy hill at 9/10-% gradient thats not safe for either of them. In fact i havent seen the Escooter in a while.

Ryan talks like he can transform the country and get everyone cycling, as if we are going to be the next holland and sure he can get more people cycling, he might even double the amount with massive spends on infrastructure and changes to cities but the vast vast majority of journeys made by the vast vast majority of people will never be suitable to bikes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738443#Comment_121738443

The vast vast majority of journeys made by the vast vast majority of people were not suitable to bikes in Amsterdam in the 1970s.

So they changed things.

magicbastarder

FWIW the average (crow flies) distance between home and work in 2016, last table on this link:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6td/

Stark

Not sure where you live also but good luck doing 14km in 15 mins by car in most cities.