Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

AndrewJRenko

Steoller wrote: »

Maybe because it's seen as a middle class pass-time, by some, and that makes it fair game.

Perhaps that is the perception, though the reality is quite different. Having spent some time standing on cycle lanes with IBikeDublin, you get a very clear picture of the diversity of cyclists in Dublin - young, old, Irish and many other nationalities, male and female. I doubt if the Deliveroo workers striking tonight could be considered as middle-class.

It's funny when people compare the very expensive hobby of motoring to the very low cost transport of cycling and conclude that cycling is 'middle class'.

For most cyclists, it's not a pastime. It's a way of getting from A to B. It's no more a pastime than getting the bus or the train.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Just a TD filming with his mobile while driving on a motorway

https://twitter.com/NiallCollinsTD/status/1352565694651654145

Yeah, that does look like the passenger in fairness.

This one looks like it was filmed from the driver's seat though;

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1352264755583467522

Winter cycling in Finland. https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-loving-finnish-city-that-keeps-pedalling-even-in-the-snow

Love this bit :

Also, the drivers of the service vehicles are obliged to cycle on the routes themselves, which, according to Vaarala, has improved the quality of their work considerably.

Seth Brundle

Maybe the "pro-cycling" Sandymount residents simply don't want additional property selling points (and presumably increased property values)...

https://twitter.com/robertburns73/status/1352896421985443840?s=19

Tombo2001

The really disappointing thing about the Deliveroo strike is that when you look at the Facebook comments on the Irish Times article on it, a huge amount of them are derogatory.

When I think about the poor Brazilian guy knocked down by joyriders last year, about lads spending their Saturday evening delivering food to richer people than them; and then to see the attitude people have towards them.

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The really disappointing thing about the Deliveroo strike is that when you look at the Facebook comments on the Irish Times article on it, a huge amount of them are derogatory.

When I think about the poor Brazilian guy knocked down by joyriders last year, about lads spending their Saturday evening delivering food to richer people than them; and then to see the attitude people have towards them.

Most people don't have a clue how many standard workers right traditional hospitality staff are denied never mind these new gig economy lads who get nothing

Thelonious Monk

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The really disappointing thing about the Deliveroo strike is that when you look at the Facebook comments on the Irish Times article on it, a huge amount of them are derogatory.

When I think about the poor Brazilian guy knocked down by joyriders last year, about lads spending their Saturday evening delivering food to richer people than them; and then to see the attitude people have towards them.

Facebook comments on anything to do with bicycles are pretty scary. I remember a girl got knocked off her bike by a bus on Parnell St last year and was in a bad way, and lots of the comments were saying "good they might stop cycling on footpaths now" and other such things.
I can't look at them any more it stresses me out too much.

Stark

I find the Facebook comments under most things to be a hornet's nest these days tbh. Seems to be a determined crew of meatheads determined to shoe horn their agendas under even the must innocuous of posts.

Seth Brundle

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Facebook comments on anything to do with bicycles are pretty scary. I remember a girl got knocked off her bike by a bus on Parnell St last year and was in a bad way, and lots of the comments were saying "good they might stop cycling on footpaths now" and other such things.
I can't look at them any more it stresses me out too much.

My sister is a heavy FB user. I've seen her post that kind of crap. When I pull her up on it, she can't think of any examples or it's a "aah you know what I mean" answers :rolleyes:
I think a lot of it is to do with insecurity and wanting people to like whatever you say.

breezy1985

Sorry if it's a little off topic but speaking of facebook some of you on here might like the page "angry people in local newspapers" which is usually links to quality local newspaper articles of people complaining about mundane things like how some poor child will be killed if the pothole isn't fixed or the new cycle lane that is gonna ruin the town. Usually also involving local councillors in hi-vis or pensioners pointing at things

breezy1985

West Limerick 102fm doing a Ras stories show at the moment

eeeee

Not cycling related but a step in the right direction for sentencing people who kill other people with cars:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40214051.html

Thelonious Monk

God that is such a horrible story, if you think you have problems imagine what those poor parents go through every day.

I bet the funeral cost more than what he had to pay in penalties :mad:

CramCycle

eeeee wrote: »

Not cycling related but a step in the right direction for sentencing people who kill other people with cars:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40214051.html

Barely though, it is still a suspended sentence which legally might be more of a punishment but in reality, doesn't change much for the person. A lot of people, subconsciously, will still read that as you walk away. I can't even begin to imagine the pain the parents are in.

eeeee

Agreed.
It was such an outrageous sentence, I'm glad it was pulled up. Still a long, long way to go. The excuses for why he did it absolutely enraged me to.
I can't imagine the pain the family are going through, and will carry for the rest of their lives. The driver's punishment is still ridiculously light, but the fact that they got called back is a small step in the right direction.

CramCycle

eeeee wrote: »

Agreed.
It was such an outrageous sentence, I'm glad it was pulled up. Still a ling, long way to go. The excuses for why he did it absolutely enraged me to.
I can't imagine the pain the family are going through, and will carry for the easy of their lives. The driver's punishment is still ridiculously light, but the fact that they got called back is a small step in the right direction.

100% and I am glad to see the DPP step in and say, hang on a minute. I do understand that apparently some judges have a policy of not going for too hard on a sentence first time around so that it can't be appealed, and then the DPP can appeal the leniency and shore it up second time around. Not a legal eagle, just what I hear other people say.
In recent months on the forum we have a poster telling of how a car started beeping at a 3yo and skimmed them, on my local forum you see people go bananas against cyclists and scooterists and it is a blind rage. I mean, if any of them ever do knock someone down, I hope they pull their posts and the defence use them to show it was quite possibly pre meditated. Some of them condoning knocking over teenagers on scooters. I mean, they are annoying but christ on a bike, if I ran over everyone who I found annoying it would be a quiet world (I also would have been run over multiple times).
Obviously this accident wasn't pre meditated but I see that aggressive, bullying style driving everyday. Because a bus started driving a little slower and more cautiously than he liked, he decided to intimidate, tailgate and drive dangerously, how is this acceptable. A child is dead because he couldn't keep his ego in check and all he got was, and I quote, the lowest possible ban under statute.
I'd be so ashamed of myself I'd ask the judge to throw away the key, not sure I could live with the guilt.

Seth Brundle

Bus driver appeals conviction for causing death of cyclist in Dublin
Counsel for Osborn Irabor claims trial judge did not explain legal terms in way jury would understand

CramCycle

Mr Gageby said Judge Francis Comerford then re-charged the jury using legal rather than layman’s terms, such as “appreciable”, “due care and attention”, “prudent” and “adverting”.

I can't see how. Even if not known by the jury, the meaning of these words in particular would be understood in the context of the conversation. Does he get to keep driving while appealing? Another person who can't accept that there are consequences to your actions, even if they are unintentional. Judge seemed to make it quite clear if he had stopped at the junction rather than roll through, the driver would have seen her.

Large bottle small glass

I don't know a lot about the criminal justice system but I have been involved in a few cases over a 20 yr period and few things stood out to me
*the system is all about giving the Accused a fair trial
*the prosecution have to show all their cards well before hearing and present it to the defence team
*the defence then get to go through book of evidence and look for reasons not to allow pieces of evidence
*victims, if still alive, are only witnesses
*the impact on victims only seems to matter at sentencing time
*beyond reasonable doubt can be a high bar

Lay witnesses can have a rough time of it when giving evidence.

Getting convictions is a hard business the way things are currently set up. I'm not sure if other jurisdictions do it any better but it's a hard place for victims.

Completely non cycling related but this gives you an idea of how rough it can be, although it is the worst I've ever heard of
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/judge-shocked-by-six-day-cross-examination-of-boy-1.4455847

Steoller

eeeee wrote: »

Not cycling related but a step in the right direction for sentencing people who kill other people with cars:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40214051.html

16 months They lose a child of 4 with her entire life ahead of her, and he might lose 16 months if he's a bad man in the next two years.

This case never fails to sicken me.

breezy1985

Steoller wrote: »

16 months They lose a child of 4 with her entire life ahead of her, and he might lose 16 months if he's a bad man in the next two years.

This case never fails to sicken me.

I know it sounds crap but I'm not sure about locking up people who are not hardened criminals.
Assuming he stays off the road he is no longer a danger to anyone. The fine and suspended sentence are too low though and a long stint of community service or something should be given too

Large bottle small glass

breezy1985 wrote: »

I know it sounds crap but I'm not sure about locking up people who are not hardened criminals.

It shouldn't be just about the Accused.

Locking up people responsible for deaths on building sites/drunk drivers on roads has been a very useful deterrent in those specific areas over the last 20 years.

From talking to former and regular drink drivers the jail deterrent was prominent in why they altered their habits; not fines or increased insurance costs etc

Justice has to also but a value on the life(s) harmed or taken by the Accussed

eeeee

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Completely non cycling related but this gives you an idea of how rough it can be, although it is the worst I've ever heard of
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/judge-shocked-by-six-day-cross-examination-of-boy-1.4455847

Jesus christ. I have no words.

Might be worth putting a warning on that link, it's profoundly disturbing.

breezy1985

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

It shouldn't be just about the Accused.

Locking up people responsible for deaths on building sites/drunk drivers on roads has been a very useful deterrent in those specific areas over the last 20 years.

From talking to former and regular drink drivers the jail deterrent was prominent in why they altered their habits; not fines or increased insurance costs etc

Justice has to also but a value on the life(s) harmed or taken by the Accussed

It's not something I'm even sure enough about in my own head to disagree about. Sounds like you have more experience in the area

Peregrine

eeeee wrote: »

Not cycling related but a step in the right direction for sentencing people who kill other people with cars:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40214051.html

Upgraded to a 16 month suspended sentence. Back driving in four years.
https://www.thejournal.ie/court-estlin-wall-driver-appeal-5336160-Jan2021/

eeeee

Peregrine wrote: »

Upgraded to a 16 month suspended sentence. Back driving in four years.
https://www.thejournal.ie/court-estlin-wall-driver-appeal-5336160-Jan2021/

Disgraceful.

Thargor

I bet if they killed again after their ban they still wouldn't activate the sentence.

RobbieMD

Peregrine wrote: »

Upgraded to a 16 month suspended sentence. Back driving in four years.
https://www.thejournal.ie/court-estlin-wall-driver-appeal-5336160-Jan2021/

And they can apply to have the licence restored after serving 2yrs of the disqualification.

Tenzor07

Well, some cyclist bashing comments on the Journo already..

But... if you're cycling along say the Clontarf to Sutton cycle lane as an example, should a Mask be worn?

https://www.thejournal.ie/should-joggers-wear-face-masks-5336544-Jan2021/

Tombo2001

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well, some cyclist bashing comments on the Journo already..

But... if you're cycling along say the Clontarf to Sutton cycle lane as an example, should a Mask be worn?

https://www.thejournal.ie/should-joggers-wear-face-masks-5336544-Jan2021/

I think this is a really awful piece by The Journal.

They had made efforts to be 'friends' of the cyclist in recent times, but this reverses it completely for me.

This social media mania of finding scapegoats for COVID, championed happily by commercial media outlets, has been one of the very worst aspects of the past year.